Posted By: krisiesmopes
Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 06:58 PM
Can someone point out the obvious differences of real ones to the fake ones that are out there? Never seen a fake one first hand, would like to be informed.
Fake fender tags
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 07:08 PM
Good luck with that! 
Posted By: krisiesmopes
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 08:03 PM
Well no kidding... everyone seems to be willing to call out a car with them, but not willing to share why they think it is... haha. I just want to know what to look for if buying a car. I miss the days where you bought one and wysiwyg.
Posted By: BigMoneyLewis
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 08:21 PM
It takes years of knowledge to be able to spot fake tags in some cases, and every year, model ,assembly plant etc. will have certain characteristics that are unique . Their is no way to answer your question,it would take several thousand pages to do so .
My best advice, educate yourself on how to decode, know how each plant and model year tag should be laid out , become familiar with what codes belong on any given tag , and in what order etc.
Sometimes they stand out like a soar thumb , othertimes, not so much .
Greg
My best advice, educate yourself on how to decode, know how each plant and model year tag should be laid out , become familiar with what codes belong on any given tag , and in what order etc.
Sometimes they stand out like a soar thumb , othertimes, not so much .
Greg
Posted By: krisiesmopes
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 08:30 PM
Well, I have been involved for many years, and have parted about 200 Mopars... I even have a pretty big collection of tags around. I have looked at the ones people say are fake, and it seems the ridge is more squared off in some cases. Curious if there are some with specific font problems, or a thinner/thicker material.. on an on. thousands of pages? get at 'er, it's not like we will use up the internet...seems to me this would be good info to have available.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 08:42 PM
Quote:
Well, I have been involved for many years, and have parted about 200 Mopars... I even have a pretty big collection of tags around. I have looked at the ones people say are fake, and it seems the ridge is more squared off in some cases. Curious if there are some with specific font problems, or a thinner/thicker material.. on an on. thousands of pages? get at 'er, it's not like we will use up the internet...seems to me this would be good info to have available.
No, exposing the flaws in fake tags will only help the crooks perfect their trade
Posted By: sixpackbee
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 08:43 PM
The problem here is that if we put out all the info on what makes a fake tag easy to spot it would just make it easier for the bogus tag artist to get it closer to right. The last thing we need is make a better time of it for them.
Posted By: krisiesmopes
Re: Fake fender tags - 03/31/14 09:06 PM
That makes a lot of sense, never thought of it that way.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 01:04 AM
Quote:
.... thousands of pages? get at 'er, it's not like we will use up the internet...seems to me this would be good info to have available.
Welllll.....
consider what was coded, when it was coded during the year and even where something was coded on the tag changed. Then take that times the number of plants in production times three just to cover early, mid and late production then take that times the number of years you want to cover.
Consider you will have to at least discuss the different tag layouts used during those years as context and which plants used them.
You'll have to touch on what SO/VON numbers are and put them in context and discuss which other factors on the tag triggered a certain VON.
You'll have to talk about fonts, screws, rivets and paper clips, bent or unbent, painted or not painted, punches and stamps.
You'll have to find people well versed in each year and plant under consideration and get their input. You'll have to review thousands of original tags from each plant to establish baseline differences then, maybe, find fake tags you can use for comparison.
A 1,000 pages might be a good start to a very boring topic that, in the end, only helps fake tag makers make better fake tags.
Posted By: Rhinodart
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 01:22 AM
I have seen almost ALL the "experts" who say a tag is fake screw that up too. 
Most of the time they are right, but not all the time. And think what these "experts" do to poor guy who has a real tag, but now it is out there on the internet that the car has issues... 
Most of the time they are right, but not all the time. And think what these "experts" do to poor guy who has a real tag, but now it is out there on the internet that the car has issues...
Posted By: kidmopar
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 01:26 AM
Quote:
Good luck with that!
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 01:28 AM
Quote:
That makes a lot of sense, never thought of it that way.
But,if you have an original tag,you have what you need for reference.
Posted By: krisiesmopes
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 01:36 AM
Quote:Quote:
.... thousands of pages? get at 'er, it's not like we will use up the internet...seems to me this would be good info to have available.
Welllll.....
consider what was coded, when it was coded during the year and even where something was coded on the tag changed. Then take that times the number of plants in production times three just to cover early, mid and late production then take that times the number of years you want to cover.
Consider you will have to at least discuss the different tag layouts used during those years as context and which plants used them.
You'll have to touch on what SO/VON numbers are and put them in context and discuss which other factors on the tag triggered a certain VON.
You'll have to talk about fonts, screws, rivets and paper clips, bent or unbent, painted or not painted, punches and stamps.
You'll have to find people well versed in each year and plant under consideration and get their input. You'll have to review thousands of original tags from each plant to establish baseline differences then, maybe, find fake tags you can use for comparison.
A 1,000 pages might be a good start to a very boring topic that, in the end, only helps fake tag makers make better fake tags.
haha, so, if I am interested in a reasonably high dollar car, take a pic of the tag, post it here, and...lol.
Seriously though, in the past I never gave it much thought, it was not an issue. But, as I head toward the possibility of getting a "higher end" car, I have considered the possibility of fakes/clones.
Whatever it is, it is getting driven hard, regardless of what the tag says.
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 02:26 AM
Quote:Quote:
.... thousands of pages? get at 'er, it's not like we will use up the internet...seems to me this would be good info to have available.
Welllll.....
consider what was coded, when it was coded during the year and even where something was coded on the tag changed. Then take that times the number of plants in production times three just to cover early, mid and late production then take that times the number of years you want to cover.
Consider you will have to at least discuss the different tag layouts used during those years as context and which plants used them.
You'll have to touch on what SO/VON numbers are and put them in context and discuss which other factors on the tag triggered a certain VON.
You'll have to talk about fonts, screws, rivets and paper clips, bent or unbent, painted or not painted, punches and stamps.
You'll have to find people well versed in each year and plant under consideration and get their input. You'll have to review thousands of original tags from each plant to establish baseline differences then, maybe, find fake tags you can use for comparison.
A 1,000 pages might be a good start to a very boring topic that, in the end, only helps fake tag makers make better fake tags.
And there you have the short or "Readers Digest" version of how to spot a fake fender tag. Now if only we could do the same for a Monroney Label/Window Sticker which should hold more of the truth of how the car left the assembly plant than any fender tag or broadcast sheet but few question it or the reproduction of one
Posted By: 6PakBee
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 12:12 PM
Anybody mind if we use the term 'reproduction' rather than 'fake'? I have the tag from my '67 GTX but it is barely legible (rusted). I would like to get a 'reproduction' of it. You all make it sound like this would be a bad thing. 
Posted By: mopar346
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 12:56 PM
Keep the original to prove it's correct. The fake comes more from people making a car something it's not or someone guessing at what should be on it. Unfortunately they all fit into the same category but the back up softens the blow.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 03:46 PM
[quote) Unfortunately they all fit into the same category
A 'fake' tag is just that, a fake, options or information has been purposely added/deleted period...a reproduction tag is a "copy" of the damaged/missing original, now whether it's done correctly or not is another story
A 'fake' tag is just that, a fake, options or information has been purposely added/deleted period...a reproduction tag is a "copy" of the damaged/missing original, now whether it's done correctly or not is another story
Posted By: serano
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 04:38 PM
Rino-is correct!I can have all the documentation required but that one self proclaimed "expert" can and will brand me and my car as fake,and most will accept the"expert"as genius
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 04:56 PM
Quote:
Anybody mind if we use the term 'reproduction' rather than 'fake'? I have the tag from my '67 GTX but it is barely legible (rusted). I would like to get a 'reproduction' of it. You all make it sound like this would be a bad thing.
Or how about COO......Copy of Original or DOO....Duplicate of Original
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 05:19 PM
Quote:
Rino-is correct!I can have all the documentation required but that one self proclaimed "expert" can and will brand me and my car as fake,and most will accept the"expert"as genius
No one is ever going to take the “opinion” of an internet forum member “expert” as to the correctness or validity of someone’s car. Maybe some lowly restored car that has more than a fender tag issue but if it doesn't match the fender tag than maybe it isn't what it is being stated to be. If you have all of the documentation to back up the reproduction fender tag then no matter what an internet forum "expert" or experts say it won't matter. Look at all of the high dollar cars that have suspicious backgrounds that there have been pages and pages of internet discussion (re;
) about that unless the Guru says it's not what it's claimed to be is what the owner says it is.I wouldn't worry about what someone on here says about the tag.......unless it is a fake
Posted By: sixpack4spd
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 05:27 PM
Quote:
DOO....Duplicate of Original
It has a DOO DOO tag on it. Sounds good! They should make them add that right on the fake tags.
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 05:41 PM
Quote:Quote:
DOO....Duplicate of Original
It has a DOO DOO tag on it. Sounds good! They should make them add that right on the fake tags.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 06:04 PM
Quote:
Rino-is correct!I can have all the documentation required but that one self proclaimed "expert" can and will brand me and my car as fake,and most will accept the"expert"as genius
^ this.
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
His good name got trashed, and rightfully so. I, on the other hand, didn't do anything wrong, didn't know him, never met him, and yet, he felt the need to question my car, and therefore my integrity, even though he didn't know what he was talking about.
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 07:30 PM
Quote:
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
Bogus story.
No one sells 69 Coronet R/Ts.
Posted By: Alaska_A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 07:57 PM
Easiest way to spot a fake tag is to put a picture of it on here. When the thread reaches 5 pages it's verified as fake. 
Posted By: RJS
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:03 PM
Quote:Quote:
Rino-is correct!I can have all the documentation required but that one self proclaimed "expert" can and will brand me and my car as fake,and most will accept the"expert"as genius
^ this.
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
I know the 68 GTX but now have to wonder which owner it was...
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:05 PM
He doesn't post here anymore. Shocking, huh? He got sued over the car, too.
He got sued over the car, too.
Posted By: RJS
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:09 PM
Let ask this although off topic to the original post.
Was he from Long Island or the guy before that?
Ron
Was he from Long Island or the guy before that?
Ron
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:10 PM
Hey thats cool !!...seeing a 'mod' get censored by another mod on his posting...
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:11 PM
Quote:
Hey thats cool !! ...seeing a 'mod' get censored by another mod on his posting...
I had no idea Tom had added that word to the profanity filter. I didn't think it was profane, which is why I used it.
The filter does that automatically. It's not done by a mod.
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:12 PM
Quote:
Let ask this although off topic to the original post.
Was he from Long Island or the guy before that?
Ron
No idea where he was from, or who the gy was "before that."
I assume the guy in question lived on the East Coast, because that's where my car came from.
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:14 PM
Quote:Quote:
Rino-is correct!I can have all the documentation required but that one self proclaimed "expert" can and will brand me and my car as fake,and most will accept the"expert"as genius
^ this.
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
Mike was that all based on the fender tags?
Posted By: not_a_charger
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:17 PM
I don't recall if he pointed out the tag or not, but my car had the original tag, along with all of the matching #'s everywhere, and original paint except for the driver's door and quarter. The quarter had been replaced with an OEM skin years earlier as a result of a collision, but it was just a skin, so the trunk gutter and the number stamped on it were intact.
Posted By: RJS
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:22 PM
That's the real beauty of this forum and knowledgeable people with long memories. That car was in a Magazine where the 1/4 panel was discussed.
I believe a very famous expert owns it now unless he was your culprit.
Moparts and good people save the uninformed more times than hurt them.
I know Galen was about to save me many years ago from a Miami expert and in some circles respected seller!!!
Now to get closer to the topic I've had a tag made for a rusty one without changes even though the car was a color change by previous owner.
I've also had one made for a car with everything including 2 Broadcast sheets just so I didn't have to look at a bare inner fender.
It can become a problem as soon as less honest people come into the equation or when years pass though.
Ron
I believe a very famous expert owns it now unless he was your culprit.
Moparts and good people save the uninformed more times than hurt them.
I know Galen was about to save me many years ago from a Miami expert and in some circles respected seller!!!
Now to get closer to the topic I've had a tag made for a rusty one without changes even though the car was a color change by previous owner.
I've also had one made for a car with everything including 2 Broadcast sheets just so I didn't have to look at a bare inner fender.
It can become a problem as soon as less honest people come into the equation or when years pass though.
Ron
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/01/14 08:30 PM
Quote:
Easiest way to spot a fake tag is to put a picture of it on here. When the thread reaches 5 pages it's verified as fake.
And your car will be blacklisted.
A guy on FBBO mistakenly posted a thread thinking his trunk drip rail VIN didn't match the rest of the body. Somehow it was handled well over there. He would have been tarred and feathered here and his car chopped and picked over for parts in no time here. Luckily for him he just looked at the wrong numbers.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/02/14 01:24 AM
Quote:Quote:
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
Bogus story.
No one sells 69 Coronet R/Ts.
Correction, no sane person sells one
Posted By: 69CoronetRT
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/02/14 01:40 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
Bogus story.
No one sells 69 Coronet R/Ts.
Correction, no sane person sells one
I've heard some people hoard 69 Coronets
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/02/14 05:40 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
When I had my 69 Coronet R/T for sale, a well-respected Moparts member, one who was recognized as an authority on correctness and such, said he'd seen my car before, and that it was a fraud. He posted it all over Moparts. Guess what? It wasn't a fraud, and his "expert" opinion was based on knowledge that was significantly less than what others believed him to possess. By then, however, the damage had been done.
Karma, being what it is, bit him squarely on the [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] a few years later when his "100% original, survivor, 68 GTX" not only didn't have all of it's original paint, but had a quarter panel replaced at one point.
Bogus story.
No one sells 69 Coronet R/Ts.
Correction, no sane person sells one
I've heard some people hoard 69 Coronets
Interesting, never heard of that
Posted By: ph23vo
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 01:18 AM
here's a tag
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 01:43 AM
Quote:
here's a tag
And...................
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 03:35 AM
Quote:
here's a tag
Does it have AC?
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 03:37 AM
Quote:Quote:
here's a tag
And...................
This is how you identify a real tag !
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 04:52 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
here's a tag
And...................
This is how you identify a real tag !
That's a repo there Bill, I found the original on ebay
Posted By: formula_s
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 05:10 AM
Quote:
Let ask this although off topic to the original post.
Was he from Long Island or the guy before that?
Ron
I seem to remember he was from the Hudson Valley. He had it parked next to the GGI 68 hemi GTX in the Survivors tent at Etown more than ten years ago. Memi knew it was't all real and said " I don't get into arguments with people" . The guy that owned it said he was getting a website for mopar survivors. Never happened.
Posted By: 67SATisfaction
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 03:46 PM
Quote:
Well, I have been involved for many years, and have parted about 200 Mopars... I even have a pretty big collection of tags around.
This is a bit of a re-hash, but I think the first thing is to listen to your 'gut'. Having explored all manner of Mopars in salvage yards for 20-30 years, it's nothing more than a gut feeling you get when looking at a fender or VIN tag.
If your gut feels uncomfortable, you go from there: Ask questions and see what verifying information comes up from the seller/owner.
(So far, my "gut" has been put to the test only once, when my brother got interested in a really mint silver-with-red-stripe-and-red-interior '68 Dodge Charger R/T for $54k.
He emailed me a pic of the tag and it was simply too perfect. Granted, the car had been restored but the F.tag's metal was too good - no wrinkle at the corner, no marring, dings, scuffs. Enough to ask a lot of q's.
The owner was a flipper, looked into it seriously and was humble enough to admit defeat when the stampings elsewhere didn't match up hardly at all.)
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 04:36 PM
Well personally, I'd like to know where to get a "fake" to replace my original which I foolishly had chrome plated back in my youth.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 06:06 PM
Quote:
Well personally, I'd like to know where to get a "fake" to replace my original which I foolishly had chrome plated back in my youth.
www.datatags.com
Word of advise if dealing with AG, be pleasant and forthcoming if you want a tag
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 06:50 PM
Quote:
Word of advise if dealing with AG, be pleasant and forthcoming if you want a tag
Are we dealing with a "soup nazi" here ?!?!?!
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/04/14 08:08 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Word of advise if dealing with AG, be pleasant and forthcoming if you want a tag
Are we dealing with a "soup nazi" here ?!?!?!
No just a no nonsense guy who likes his customers to have their ducks in a row before calling/ordering, we all know how Mopar people are
Posted By: RestoRick
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/05/14 02:21 AM
Quote:
Well personally, I'd like to know where to get a "fake" to replace my original which I foolishly had chrome plated back in my youth.
Was it sanded?
I would think you should be able to have the plating stripped electrically.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/05/14 03:54 AM
Rather have a repro - then I can have them change the color to match the new paint job. Probably have a few other numbers changed too while they're at it! 
Posted By: Mr D21
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/05/14 03:58 AM
Quote:
Rather have a repro - then I can have them change the color to match the new paint job. Probably have a few other numbers changed too while they're at it!
Real cars only need apply!
We will not help with hallucinations or dreams!
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/05/14 04:54 PM
Quote:
Was it sanded?
I would think you should be able to have the plating stripped electrically
Not sanded but the buffer no doubt harmed some of the definition. Stripping wouldn't be an issue, Drano does that!
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/06/14 12:08 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Was it sanded?
I would think you should be able to have the plating stripped electrically
Not sanded but the buffer no doubt harmed some of the definition. Stripping wouldn't be an issue, Drano does that!
The backside will show the codes and sometimes better than the front side of the tag.
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/06/14 12:49 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:
here's a tag
And...................
This is how you identify a real tag !
That's a repo there Bill, I found the original on ebay
Couldn't have,I found the original years ago and let it rust,remarkable what age does !!
Posted By: kentj340
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/06/14 06:02 AM
Those aren't rust holes - they're inspector's punches.
Posted By: A12
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/06/14 08:54 AM
Quote:
Those aren't rust holes - they're inspector's punches.
Oh yeah you're right, that's inspector "Rusty Taggoneaway's" inspection stamp it the upper corners
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Fake fender tags - 04/06/14 12:19 PM
Quote:Quote:
Those aren't rust holes - they're inspector's punches.
Oh yeah you're right, that's inspector "Rusty Taggoneaway's" inspection stamp it the upper corners
Man, that guy must have put some long hours in and worked on a lot of cars! I see his work all over the place!