1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?

Posted By: 318 Stroker

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 12/12/08 07:09 PM

[quoteThe Challenger SE model is a JH27 for 1970 only eh? I had the A63 molding package with my A66 340 package. Is that rare? LOL.

In 1970, JH27 is a base model Challenger vert. You could not get a SE vert.

A 70 Challenger SE hardtop has a VIN of JH29. The 70 R/T SE hardtop has a VIN of JS29...

Posted By: Mark340A66

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 12/12/08 08:44 PM

Quote:

[quoteThe Challenger SE model is a JH27 for 1970 only eh? I had the A63 molding package with my A66 340 package. Is that rare? LOL.

In 1970, JH27 is a base model Challenger vert. You could not get a SE vert.

A 70 Challenger SE hardtop has a VIN of JH29. The 70 R/T SE hardtop has a VIN of JS29...

My Bad, going off fading memory

Posted By: A990

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 01:48 AM

The A63 is std on Jx29. Available on Jx2n as an extra cost option, but does NOT include the rocker moulding. I am VERY interested in this subject because I need the quarter belt mouldings for the convertibles. I just cant find 'em

Posted By: YYZ

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 02:20 AM

Contact Jerome Verbit - he makes excellent reproductions of the long quarter panel spears for Challengers - in both '70 and '71 style.

Posted By: YYZ

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 02:22 AM

Verbit Jerome
509 Hershberger St
Martinsburg, PA 16662
814-793-3647

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 06:07 AM

Yeah Jerome makes them.. Spendy but very nice.... As far as A63 & A66 together I don't know about rare but my buddies JH27HOB is coded A63 & A66 plus quite a few other nice codes.....

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 01:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is this the option code for an SE or just a trim package?

Just a trim package. Totally seperate from a SE.

This is the correct answer.

Quote:

Available in 71 also, but doesn't have the rear quarter extention to tailight one piece trim.

Almost correct, The 1971 version is coded A46 instead of A63. A46 doesn't come with the astrotone tailight piece as mentioned.

Tav

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 02:13 PM

Quote:

The A63 is std on Jx29. Available on Jx2n as an extra cost option, but does NOT include the rocker moulding.

Not quite, A63 consists of...
M31 - Body Belt Mouldings - top of 1/4s, doors, fenders, and hood
no-code - Front Stone Shield Moulding
no-code - Rear/Tail Panel Astrotone Moulding

A car with A63 will have A63 & M31 on the fender tag.

These pieces that made up the A63 molding group were all standard on a SE, and for that reason, A63 was not available on the SE cars. An SE car will have M31 on the fender tag, but Not A63.

A63 was a way to order these parts on a non-SE car.

M21 drip rail moldings will be coded on all the hardtop challengers.

M26 wheel lip moldings will be on the broadcast, but not on the fender tag on all the challengers except T/A and A66.

M05 door edge protectors & M25 rocker moldings were each available seperately from everything else.

M42 front stone shield molding & M44 hood rear and fender moldings are codes that were not used for Challengers. These codes are for Chargers and other cars.

Tav

Posted By: hemi70se

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 03:44 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The A63 is std on Jx29. Available on Jx2n as an extra cost option, but does NOT include the rocker moulding.

Not quite, A63 consists of...
M31 - Body Belt Mouldings - top of 1/4s, doors, fenders, and hood
no-code - Front Stone Shield Moulding
no-code - Rear/Tail Panel Astrotone Moulding

A car with A63 will have A63 & M31 on the fender tag.

These pieces that made up the A63 molding group were all standard on a SE, and for that reason, A63 was not available on the SE cars. An SE car will have M31 on the fender tag, but Not A63.

A63 was a way to order these parts on a non-SE car.

M21 drip rail moldings will be coded on all the hardtop challengers.

M26 wheel lip moldings will be on the broadcast, but not on the fender tag on all the challengers except T/A and A66.

M05 door edge protectors & M25 rocker moldings were each available seperately from everything else.

M42 front stone shield molding & M44 hood rear and fender moldings are codes that were not used for Challengers. These codes are for Chargers and other cars.

Tav

Thanks for making that crystal clear as I was wondering if my newly purchased A63 coded car was supposed to have the tail light trim panel.

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 06:49 PM

Quote:

Thanks for making that crystal clear

Your welcome.

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I was wondering if my newly purchased A63 coded car was supposed to have the tail light trim panel.

That would be a YES.

Tav

Posted By: ratroaster

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/09/11 09:43 PM

This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?

Posted By: m46rat

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 01:28 AM

I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 02:01 AM

Quote:

I believe tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).

That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.

I don't think A63 was availible on 70 T/A's or cars with N94 fiberglass hoods. The dealer literature I see pre dates T/A and N94 release dates.

Now for 1971 the similar A46 molding package was not availible for N94 cars. http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/imag...hallenger_4.jpg So, I would think that would apply to the 1970 A63 package also?? It's because the rear hood molding (unmodified) will not clip onto the thicker fiberglass hood.

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 02:08 AM

Quote:

But Barry says there are WSS T/A's.

If you mean this Barry, I know better than that.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 02:16 AM

Quote:

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But Barry says there are WSS T/A's.

If you mean this Barry, I know better than that.

Ok, my bad. I thought you had tracked down a real WSS T/A? Or maybe you debunked a car that made that claim?? At one time I thought the WSS T/A deal was big on your radar. I think i'm remembering wrong.

So is A63 called out as N/A on T/A literature?

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 02:21 AM

In a nutshell, it is just not possible.

The car in question is a real T/A, but is not coded as a WSS. Some of the goodies were added at some point, but no codes were changed.

Ken covered the details on it pretty well at http://www.aarta.com/myths/myths.html

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 03:20 AM

Quote:

This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?

Quote:

I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).

Quote:

That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.

In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.

Tav

Posted By: Alaskan_TA

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 03:24 AM

Quote:

So is A63 called out as N/A on T/A literature?

It is listed as not available.

http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/bulletins/tsb_d3_pg2.jpg

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 03:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?

Quote:

I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).

Quote:

That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.

In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.

Tav

Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like orginsol (sp).... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?

Attached picture 6625723-brakehose.jpg

Posted By: A990

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 04:13 AM

Posted By: ratroaster

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 01:34 PM

So regardless of the rear panel all RT/SE and RT/A63 had black grills?

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 01:47 PM

Quote:

So regardless of the rear panel all RT/SE and RT/A63 had black grills?

Yes, all 1970 Challenger R/T should have black grills.

Tav

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 01:57 PM

Quote:

In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.

Quote:

Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like organisol.... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?

Thanks for bringing this up Randy. It's good for everyone to keep an open mind about the possibilities. Keep that rear panel in the rafters safe, it's the oldest example I've heard of. Maybe some day with further research, this issue will be satisfactorily resolved.

Does anyone have a known original R/T SE with an astrotone panel?

Tav

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 02:18 PM

Quote:

I don't think A63 was availible on 70 T/A's or cars with N94 fiberglass hoods. The dealer literature I see pre dates T/A and N94 release dates.

Now for 1971 the similar A46 molding package was not availible for N94 cars. http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/imag...hallenger_4.jpg So, I would think that would apply to the 1970 A63 package also?? It's because the rear hood molding (unmodified) will not clip onto the thicker fiberglass hood.

Barry answered most of this stuff already, and I agree with what he's said. A63 & A46 were not available on a T/A or any car with the N94 T/A hood. If I recall correctly, that N94 hood was also not available on SE or A78 formal roof cars.

I also used to think that the rear hood molding wouldn't fit on the fiberglass hood, but further investigation revealed that the rear hood molding WILL fit on Original T/A hoods, but there is some difficulty installing it on a Reproduction hood. I think the reason the rear hood molding was not available with the T/A hood is simply a styling choice, similar to how some color combinations are not reccomended, they didn't want bright trim all around the blacked out hood. Dayclona has the rear hood molding installed on an original T/A hood on his 71 T/A creation.

The Western Special T/A is a very interesting car, but from what I've seen, I'd agree that it's not an A91 Western Sport Special. It's a modified T/A.

Tav

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 04:44 PM

Quote:

...
I also used to think that the rear hood molding wouldn't fit on the fiberglass hood, but further investigation revealed that the rear hood molding WILL fit on Original T/A hoods, but there is some difficulty installing it on a Reproduction hood. I think the reason the rear hood molding was not available with the T/A hood is simply a styling choice, similar to how some color combinations are not reccomended, they didn't want bright trim all around the blacked out hood. Dayclona has the rear hood molding installed on an original T/A hood on his 71 T/A creation.
...

I've looked at an original T/A hood and it seemed awful thick for the molding to pinch around. But I didn't try fitting a trim piece. It's a tight fit around a stock steel hood. I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 06:25 PM

One of the 1971 N94 hood'd Challengers has the moulding package on it.
Car is OPTIONED with and Fender tag coded: A46 M25 M31 M91 & N94.

I will agree, it's an exception to the "rule".

Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/10/11 07:07 PM

Quote:

I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...

When I talked with him about it, he said that he didn't have to modify the hood or the trim. Tight fit, but it went right on.

I happened to have an ASC&P reproduction hood & original rear hood trim laying around back then, so I checked the fit myself. It's real close to fitting on the reproduction hood, but won't quite go without thinning the repro hood in just a couple spots.

Tav

Posted By: faud88

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/11/11 01:54 AM

I know its not common. But I have a factory R/T SE that has a argent grille. I have pictures from 1970 to verify. Sometimes they just put in what they had at the time.....

Posted By: EV2DEMON

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/11/11 05:21 PM

Quote:

I know its not common. But I have a factory R/T SE that has a argent grille. I have pictures from 1970 to verify. Sometimes they just put in what they had at the time.....

What color is the car?

Posted By: Morty426

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/11/11 08:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

This brings up a good question. A 70 model year JS23(RT) with A63, does the one pc. rear/tail Panel Astrotone Moulding remain textured Argent or is it blacked out? If it does remain textured argent, then does the grill remain textured argent to match the rear panel or black like a regular RT with out A63? Seen them restored both ways. Which is correct?

Quote:

I believee tail panel piece is always textured argent regardless of whether the car is an R/T or not. Only the grille comes argent(non R/T) or black(R/T and T/A).

Quote:

That's what I've always seen and believed. And IIRC, the parts book only has one p/n for it. If it came argent and black there would be two p/n's.

In 1970, the challenger R/T cars did Not have a blacked out tailpanel, so there was no reason to offer a blacked out A63 trim piece. A 1970 Challenger R/T with A63 will use an astrotone panel. There has been some discussion about different shades of astrotone, but I believe this to be a production variation, not something that was done intentionaly. astrotone doesn't really match the grill argent, it's a bit darker.

Tav

Sorry guys, I know it's not the popular opinion but my first Challenger which I bought in 1974 was an R/T SE & the tail panel was black... Can I prove the original owner didn't paint it? No.. But my uncle was the original owner of another R/T SE & it too had a black rear panel.... The rear panel on my challenger was hammered when I bought the car in 74 so I pulled the panel & replaced it... Tossed the original in the rafters of the garage... It was still there when I first saw this question was posted back around 04 & I pulled it down & checked it out.. Definately black but textured not like the astrotone but more like orginsol (sp).... I offered to send it to Ken but he had no interest because he had already made up his mind & didn't want evidence that he could be wrong..Oh when that thread was running there were probably six or seven posters who had owned R/T S.E's that said their cars had black panels dating back to at least the early eighties..I've seen the there's no part number argument before & there are dozens of other parts with out special numbers... Do they not exsist too? Anyone ever fine a part number for the molded brake booster vacuum hose? Or don't those exsist?

You can add me to the list. My R/T SE I had in 81 had a black back and my current R/T SE has a black back.

Posted By: ratroaster

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/12/11 12:09 AM

Any RT/SE or RT/A63 survivers out there? I am more interested in the RT/A63 which is what my car is. I bought it disassembled and it came with an argent grill with R/T emblem. Not sure if it was original at the time.

Posted By: faud88

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 05/12/11 03:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I know its not common. But I have a factory R/T SE that has a argent grille. I have pictures from 1970 to verify. Sometimes they just put in what they had at the time.....

What color is the car?

The Car is Black

Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 1970 Challenger A63= Special edition? - 07/18/11 11:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I wonder if Dayclona had to trim the molding to get it to fit?? Interesting...

When I talked with him about it, he said that he didn't have to modify the hood or the trim. Tight fit, but it went right on.

I happened to have an ASC&P reproduction hood & original rear hood trim laying around back then, so I checked the fit myself. It's real close to fitting on the reproduction hood, but won't quite go without thinning the repro hood in just a couple spots.

Tav

Going through a bunch of N94 threads & found one by "DAYCLONA" where he states his '71 T/A clone had a repro hood & trimming was needed.

Quote:

I used the stock steel 1970 hood trim, with the standard length studs/nuts,.....no trimming was needed on my hood, except where I added the rear edge SE/belt trim, that just needed a thinning of the glass for the trim to snap on, but my hood is a Fiberglass Trends repro, a very nice/accurate repro that I installed around 1980

Mike

T/A hoods on '71 Challengers

1970 Challenger A63= Special edition?