Moparts
Behind the grille blackout question?
Posted By: wkroncke17
Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 06:39 PM
I've heard rumor but have no proof if Black or F8 (Dark Green) Cars came with the blackout treatment behind the grille??
A friend sent me pics of a Survivor F8 '71 Charger that has the blackout treatment.
The car in question is a '69 Coronet R/T (F8).
Was this a deal only on lighter color cars?
Thanks for the help!!!
Posted By: topside
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 06:50 PM
My '69 F8 RR had the blackout (St.Louis car). The exceptions to blackout that I've heard are black & dark blue (EE1 & maybe B7 cars). Anyone with those colors, post up and let's see if that was actually how it went down on the line.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 06:55 PM
My old 67 BelvedereII Hemi car was GG1 (Dark Green) and never had any blackout, also a St.Louis car.
Posted By: Silver70
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 07:04 PM
My 68 satellite, also gg1, had no blackout.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 07:21 PM
I have seen two original paint T/As, one black & one in dark green, both had the blackout.
Posted By: HemiRick
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 07:39 PM
My 68 Charger that was dark Blue from the factory had the blackout. I think all cars should have had it and those that didnt were mistakes. Hate seeing restored bright colored cars without it.
Posted By: wkroncke17
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 10:06 PM
Quote:
My 68 Charger that was dark Blue from the factory had the blackout. I think all cars should have had it and those that didnt were mistakes. Hate seeing restored bright colored cars without it.
I agree - theres nothing like a Yellow car, and it sticks out through the grill like a sore thumb.
I have talked to some that say Black cars (For obvious reasons) didn't get it, the only other color was F8 (Dark Green).
Any pics of Survivor '68 or '69's?
Thanks all!
Posted By: MoparJunkie
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 10:42 PM
Anyone have a diagram showing where the exact locations the blackout went out to?
Posted By: wkroncke17
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 10:50 PM
Quote:
Anyone ahve a diagram showing where the exact locations the blackout went out to?
If done factory correct, it is a sloppy process, and not an exact science.
On the assembly line a guy down in the pit sprayed it from the bottom of the car at an angle on the radiator support with no masking or exact placement of the black spray.
I'm sure there are alot of pics out there to go by.
Posted By: Alaskan_TA
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/16/13 10:58 PM
The pit is actually a myth, lots of cars have blackout on top of the lower horizontal surface of the radiator yoke.
If the person spraying it was in a pit under the car, he would have needed a ladder or very long arms for that to happen.
Posted By: rck850
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 12:53 AM
I have an F8 69 GTS that has the blackout.
Posted By: wkroncke17
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 04:45 AM
Quote:
I have an F8 69 GTS that has the blackout.
Hmmm....A survivor I assume?
Makes me think its only rumor that the darker colored cars did not get it??
Posted By: AAR#2
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 01:32 PM
If you go by the Engineering drawing,
"OMIT BLACK-OUT PAINT . . . .
BLACK AY1TX9
MED DK BLUE MET AY2EB7
MED DK GREEN MT AY2EF8"
However if you have proof your car came with the treatment and was one of these colors I'd replace it. We all know assembly line treatments weren't flawless and for the guy spraying black-out on 90% of the cars, there seems to be supporting documentation that some in these colors received black-out due to habit or the gent not reading his shop order.
Posted By: wkroncke17
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 02:38 PM
Quote:
If you go by the Engineering drawing,
"OMIT BLACK-OUT PAINT . . . .
BLACK AY1TX9
MED DK BLUE MET AY2EB7
MED DK GREEN MT AY2EF8"
However if you have proof your car came with the treatment and was one of these colors I'd replace it. We all know assembly line treatments weren't flawless and for the guy spraying black-out on 90% of the cars, there seems to be supporting documentation that some in these colors received black-out due to habit or the gent not reading his shop order.
WOW!!
Thank you!
So now there is proof that these cars were not supposed to get it......BUT, if guys were in the habit of spraying every car, they probably just went ahead and did it!!
As far as I could tell, my Coronet (F8) did not have this treatment, and I'm not planning on putting it on now for sure.
Thank you so much!! 
Posted By: Paul Jacobs
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 03:39 PM
Quote:
The pit is actually a myth, lots of cars have blackout on top of the lower horizontal surface of the radiator yoke.
If the person spraying it was in a pit under the car, he would have needed a ladder or very long arms for that to happen.
Well I'm glad that someone actually knows what they're talking about! I wish the rumor would stop about someone spraying the blackout in a pit-that was the undercoating line. Before he passed away, I spoke to a guy that worked in the St. Louis factory paint section between 67-71. He said they simply stuck their hand through the grille opening and sprayed as quickly as they could to get some black in there. He also explained that sometimes they just sprayed every car that came down the line-some guys would fill in the job temporarily and didn't know which cars got it & which cars didn't.
That would explain all the black paint on the top of the front valance-it would be absolutely impossible to get paint there if they were in the proverbial pit believed by many.
As a side note, I have many pictures of blackout on 69 F8 cars.
Posted By: topside
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 04:26 PM
The pit theory is largely the result of the spray pattern. Looking at a 68-70 B-body lower tie bar, blackout's on the bottom & front, but not on the upper surface of the lip. Sticking a spray gun and its hose(s) through a grille opening would be difficult on some models, no? Perhaps the spray pattern & pressure was adjusted to blow through in a tight cone pattern, but I'd expect runs and thick "edges" with that.
I wouldn't expect the undercoat guy to do the blackout: a goof-up would be a real problem!
Hopefully, somebody somewhere has a photo of the blackout being applied, and this can be settled before it becomes a hostile argument.
Posted By: wkroncke17
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 06:16 PM
Quote:
The pit theory is largely the result of the spray pattern. Looking at a 68-70 B-body lower tie bar, blackout's on the bottom & front, but not on the upper surface of the lip. Sticking a spray gun and its hose(s) through a grille opening would be difficult on some models, no? Perhaps the spray pattern & pressure was adjusted to blow through in a tight cone pattern, but I'd expect runs and thick "edges" with that.
I wouldn't expect the undercoat guy to do the blackout: a goof-up would be a real problem!
Hopefully, somebody somewhere has a photo of the blackout being applied, and this can be settled before it becomes a hostile argument.
We don't want anything hostile!!
I really appreciate all advice/comments - rumors whether they are true or false, it's still something I enjoy talking about.
I know this has been discussed here many times, and as I'm about to do my (F8) Coronet, I'd like to know what is correct whether I put it on there or not.
I'm leaning towards NOT putting it on there just for the fact that the paint really looks nice.
Thanks guys!!
Wally.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 06:45 PM
After researching this using my admittedly "less than scientific" methods, I've come to the conclusion that there are a great many cars that weren't "supposed" to come with blackout that did....too many IMO to chalk it up to someone "filling in" or assy line mistakes.
The vast majority of F8 cars that I've seen have had the blackout. Possibly a plant thing or a change in procedure after a certain date, I don't know. What I do know is that if you have a Lynch Rd. '69 or '70 car in F8 there is a very good chance that it came with the blackout.
Dave
Posted By: formula_s
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 07:33 PM
Quote:
The pit is actually a myth, lots of cars have blackout on top of the lower horizontal surface of the radiator yoke.
.
There was a picture in Mopar Action several years ago of a worker in the " pit" blacking out the radiator yoke. I seem to remember the picture being in E-berg's resto topic column. Anyone recall?
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 07:44 PM
Quote:
There was a picture in Mopar Action several years ago of a worker in the " pit" blacking out the radiator yoke. I seem to remember the picture being in E-berg's resto topic column. Anyone recall?
Yes...
Seems to me I recall the car being yellow...
Posted By: formula_s
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 07:53 PM
Quote:
Quote:
There was a picture in Mopar Action several years ago of a worker in the " pit" blacking out the radiator yoke. I seem to remember the picture being in E-berg's resto topic column. Anyone recall?
Yes...
Seems to me I recall the car being yellow...
Yes, it was a b body Plymouth. So Alaskan TA, It seems there was a Pit.
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 08:51 PM
anyone got that picture of the guy in the pit applying the blackout?
have a look at the picture that is with alaskan t/a`s post. definitely couldn`t be done from a pit.
all the best
frank.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 09:07 PM
I remember the "pit picture". Perhaps not all plants had the pit?
Dave
Posted By: v8punch
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/17/13 11:49 PM
my f7 1971 challenger has.
Posted By: Kudakid
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/18/13 10:05 PM
I owned a black AAR Cuda that had the blackout treatment. So I think when you have an assembly line worker just humming along... he paints whatever color vehicle is in front of him. Remember those were engineering graphics that called out what colors did not get the treatment, does not mean the plant followed it. There are many cases of the plant not following the graphics during the build process.
Posted By: A12
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/18/13 11:18 PM
Quote:
I remember the "pit picture". Perhaps not all plants had the pit?
Dave
This was one of the sound deadening application "pits" that may have started the theory that the blackout was done like that too IMO.......but was it only sound deadening sprayed there ???? 
At this point the headlights and grille were already on the body so there is no way they could have done the blackout, maybe farther back down the line but NOT at this point IMO
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/18/13 11:20 PM
Maybe, but that isn't the picture I'm thinking of....
Dave
Posted By: convx4
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/19/13 01:42 AM
The pit was real and can be seen in the pictures of the demo of the south st Louis plant. It is roped off with orange snow fence. late in the post.
Today they have been filled with debris.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
Posted By: A12
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/19/13 02:48 AM
Quote:
The pit was real and can be seen in the pictures of the demo of the south st Louis plant. It is roped off with orange snow fence. late in the post.
Today they have been filled with debris.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1
what's the date of that post? I looked through the entire post and nothing jump out like it was something used back in the 60's?
Posted By: DaveRS23
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/19/13 01:24 PM
I can't add anything to the pit debate. But all of my cars have had a spray pattern clearly indicating an upward direction to the spray.
Posted By: topside
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/19/13 02:05 PM
That pic is of a '58 model; radiator supports were already black on that body style and were bolted in. I think the blackout deal started with the unitized cars.
Posted By: 68_661charger
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 06/21/13 12:59 AM
Just for comparisons sake I have a 68 661 code Hamtramk car that is blacked out and it looks like it was nicely done on both sides.
Posted By: mopargem
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/27/16 02:24 AM
I'm blacking out my 69 Bee trying to decide how much black on the headlight bucket area and saw this old thread. Thought I would show my old St Louis 69 Hemi Charger F8 that was clearly blacked out.
Posted By: rarefish
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/28/16 04:02 AM
I have a survivor 1969 Dart that is B7 Blue and it has the black out paint.
Posted By: MI_Custumz
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/28/16 12:19 PM
Friend is restoring a 97 green A12 now. He said his didn't have blackout on it. Original paint when he got the car.
Posted By: DARTH V8Я
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/28/16 09:16 PM
My Windsor built 74 SSP L8 Dark Moonstone Metallic did not have the blackout.
Posted By: Pynzo
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/28/16 09:23 PM
My B7 Blue '70 Bee Lynch Road August '69 build did not have blackout. I added it on my first repaint in '87. Definitely made a difference. I'll do it again.
Posted By: 750-h2
Re: Behind the grille blackout question? - 05/31/16 12:24 AM
When I stripped the original paint from my EF8 1970 Challenger it did not have the blackout treatment.