Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar

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If it is really what the owner claims, wow it is nice to see a cool survivor like that. Too bad it's one of the ugliest generations of camaro ever produced. I can appreciate the car for the nice, minty survivor that it is, but if I ever came into possession of it, well you could throw a fin on my back and call me flipper!

In my opinion this 70 LT-1 Z-28 was the very best car built in 1970. It was killer fast, and the 350 370HP was high reving and quick. I remember this car specifically growing up, and even then I was a Mopar fan but we had nothing in the lineup in my opinion that could touch it. The 440 six pack cars put out close enough power, but the LT-1 350 was much quicker the first 500ft. Geared with a 3:73 this was the first of a new generation of small block chevys. Anyone who thought or thinks that the small block Mopars could touch it was and is simply dreaming. Dont get me wrong, I had two small block Mopars but this 70 Z car was a screamer.

As cool as a minty survivor like that is, I can say without a doubt I would not want to own one like that, no matter what make/model. I would feel scared/guilty driving it, then it would be pointless for me to own. Better to be in some museum or some rich guy's collection.

I would feel the same way as you do if I owned such a low mileage survivor, but i completely disagree about the car being ugly; I think the '70 1/2 RS Z/28 is the best looking Camaro ever built and I'd love to have one. The only F-body I'd prefer to that one would be a 1970 1/2 - 1973 Pontiac Trans Am.

....I dig the color too.

Dave

I also agree...

And if you ever get a chance to actually drive a F body of that generation, you would be amazed at how good they really are. They brake and handle way better than the competition from Ford or Chrysler at that time. Also, if you haven't heard a solid lifter LT1 with 4.11 or 4.56 gears at 7,000 RPM. well, you haven't lived ....

MB

The 70 model was the "split bumper" version. I also think it is a wonerful design. Much better than the 72, 73 or 74 model. And to this date easily the fastest Z-28 ever built.

Posted By: ThermoQuad

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 12:49 AM

Great story but as always the naysayers have struck

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I don't want to get hung up in the coming storm but that engine compartment does look pretty bad for only 1100 miles of use and then storage in a climate controlled area.

It is a really nice car though, no two ways about it.

I see you have become an expert on what an unrestored engine compartment is supposed to look like after sitting in a garage for so many years...It's comments like this that make me never want to post anything let alone share something significantly cool and truly rare...

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 12:52 AM

I think 6Pak is just offering a little healthy skeptism. I was looking at the same pics and for a moment or two was wondering myself, but then thought no, it was put away with little mileage and then not cared for very well for years and years.

Posted By: screamindriver

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:03 AM

Very cool find !!! It's refreshing to see such a great survivor knowing most Z28s were driven to death and modified through the years....

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:04 AM

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They are still out there....

That Z28 is just awesome. How do you resist driving such a cool car?

So Mike- what would YOU do with this car, or what do you think should/would/could be done?

Should the car be turned over and lubed etc so it COULD be started and ran again down the road, or should it be a "hands off" car as far as a time capsule, or?

I know it's going to be up to the owner in the end, but I'm interested in hearing from "other" survivor car owners what they think should/would/could be done with this Camaro.

It's a time capsule that will only be totally original ONCE, so I guess alot of thought has to go into anything before commencing....

I own a low mile,(2,800) Challenger. My car has the original brakes, exhaust, shocks, front end, etc. Being an ex drag car, the motor had been out and modified. All of the original components were there though. Alternator, starter, distributor, etc. were all there and none of the wiring was disturbed. But the fuel system was totally contaminated and needed to be replaced. The motor compartment unfortunately needed to be "restored".

The glass and interior on my car are the best I have ever seen and might even be better than that Camaro. But that car(Z28), is really special as it is a true Survivor in every respect. And unlike cars like the cornfield hemicuda(no disrespect-great car-BTW), it was preserved to a higher degree.

I have driven my car a total of 5 miles in the entire time of ownership. It just doesn't make sense to drive a car like this. Whatever originality will be lost if that happens. It has a perfect inspection sticker that expired 35 years ago. I would imagine it wouldn't last long if it was exposed to the sun,etc. Same for the interior. And if you ran the car alot, the original exhaust would suffer.

My feeling is that cars like this should be cleaned up and left as-is.

MB

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:12 AM

This is a view into the original tank. Looks like rust, but it's actually a brown, crystallized crud. The car was stored for 23 years with this fuel. Nasty stuff.

Attached picture 4849412-71gastankpics.001(Medium).jpg

Attached picture 4849412-71gastankpics.001(Medium).jpg

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:32 AM

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Great story but as always the naysayers have struck

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I don't want to get hung up in the coming storm but that engine compartment does look pretty bad for only 1100 miles of use and then storage in a climate controlled area.

It is a really nice car though, no two ways about it.

I see you have become an expert on what an unrestored engine compartment is supposed to look like after sitting in a garage for so many years...It's comments like this that make me never want to post anything let alone share something significantly cool and truly rare...

(Sigh) Oh to be able to make a comment, just a simple comment, and not have it misinterpreted by every "expert" on this board. I just think that the water pump on an engine with 1100 miles should still have engine paint on it, not 100% rust, and the block should look fairly fresh, not greasy, oily, and discolored. I don't know, maybe the first 1100 miles were hard miles, hell, I don't know. What I do know is the engine in my '72 W200 after 80,000 miles looks better.

Posted By: a12superbee

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:36 AM

Up until a few months ago I was caretaker for a 299 mile pacecar mustang. There really is nothing you can do with cars like this except incur the expense of trailering them from one show to the next. That or just look at them.

Cool someone scored the z but now what?

Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:40 AM

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Valve Covers are correct - LT1s had those... Z28 and Corvettes. Dave

Thanks, learn something every day!

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 01:54 AM

They posted a few more pics

Attached picture 4849537-371579-tn_HPIM0597(Medium).jpg

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 02:00 AM

Original oil filter with the sloppy undercoat

Attached picture 4849557-origoilfilter(Medium).jpg

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 02:02 AM

Virgin oil drainplug..

Attached picture 4849563-drainplug.(Medium).jpg

Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 02:54 AM

I'm not sure a more "original" car could be found from 1970. It's an impressive piece.

In my opinion a car like that almost looses it's "car" status, and becomes "art".
It's fascinating.

Posted By: dbdcuda

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 03:05 AM

Awsome car! From what I've seen of GM survivor cars, the quality control was even more lacking than Mopar at that time. Makes OE restorations of these cars very difficult, takes a true artist. BTW, as Dave W stated, interesting how a thread like that could go that long without negative comments.

Doug

Posted By: mickm

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 03:14 AM

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I'm not sure a more "original" car could be found from 1970.

well, then, you should take a look at my road runner!

oh, he did say "original", didn't he...

Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 03:23 AM

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I'm not sure a more "original" car could be found from 1970.

well, then, you should take a look at my road runner!

oh, he did say "original", didn't he...

It's awesome!

My buddy owns a 1970 Hemi Charger 4 speed with original paint still, sat in a garage since 1977, but that Camaro is a TRUE timecapsule....

Attached picture 4849825-chacha.jpg

Posted By: 340SIX

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 04:06 AM

A very good friend of mine got a 1957 chevy 2 door bel air that was parked in 63 had 63 brake tag on windshield and 62 and 63 parking pass at the hospital here in new orleans. it was parked inside a storage container.
was totaly rust free with mint interor. he pulled the auto trand and v-8 slaped a 454 and 700r4 tossed in a new rear end and drove it everywhere.He redid the brakes checked the front end cleaned out the whole fuel sysytem etc.
Said it was on no use if ya can not use it!
One of the largest crusies/shows down here
"crusining the coast" was comming up so he asked if my wife and i would go with him and his. so we met him at his home packed the trunk with all hios wifes stuff{she brings half the house with her} out 2 small bags.
we headed out stoped at the gas staion I filled it up while he was in the store getting drinks etc.
We get back in and head back out I ask? How many miles he has driven it with the new drive line he said 2-3 times up the road that he lives on thats it

He gets ontop the I-10 and gets it up to 70-75 the tack is reading kinda low since it has the OD trans
10 miles or so he gets it up to 100-110 little bit thjen slows down to 70-75 again and the car sales along fine the whole way there

We pull up to the hotel and the ladys get out with the bags to go check in.
Then the car don't start so we call and have someone comeing out bring us a new one.
We leave the car in front the entrance telling them it is broke

I tell them hey it's a chevy they brake

From then on out the car never gave him any trouble at all ever!But sold it 2 years ago

was one of the finest shape cars ya ever saw.
He also gave away free the org. motor and trans to someone who wanted a stock car

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 05:02 PM

Mike: Thanks for posting. Incredible car. I don't read Moparts on the weekends as I only have dialup on the acreage, but it sounds like I missed the drama!

No big loss, I'm sure.

Dave

Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 09:46 PM

From the story:
"But one day a friend of his sister's opened a car door against it and gave it a door ding. He got so mad he parked it."

The owner of that car apparently had some personality issues to have such a hissy-fit...

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 10:05 PM

If it is really what the owner claims, wow it is nice to see a cool survivor like that. Too bad it's one of the ugliest generations of camaro ever produced. I can appreciate the car for the nice, minty survivor that it is, but if I ever came into possession of it, well you could throw a fin on my back and call me flipper!

As cool as a minty survivor like that is, I can say without a doubt I would not want to own one like that, no matter what make/model. I would feel scared/guilty driving it, then it would be pointless for me to own. Better to be in some museum or some rich guy's collection.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 11:00 PM

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If it is really what the owner claims, wow it is nice to see a cool survivor like that. Too bad it's one of the ugliest generations of camaro ever produced. I can appreciate the car for the nice, minty survivor that it is, but if I ever came into possession of it, well you could throw a fin on my back and call me flipper!

As cool as a minty survivor like that is, I can say without a doubt I would not want to own one like that, no matter what make/model. I would feel scared/guilty driving it, then it would be pointless for me to own. Better to be in some museum or some rich guy's collection.

I would feel the same way as you do if I owned such a low mileage survivor, but i completely disagree about the car being ugly; I think the '70 1/2 RS Z/28 is the best looking Camaro ever built and I'd love to have one. The only F-body I'd prefer to that one would be a 1970 1/2 - 1973 Pontiac Trans Am.

....I dig the color too.

Dave

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 11:35 PM

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If it is really what the owner claims, wow it is nice to see a cool survivor like that. Too bad it's one of the ugliest generations of camaro ever produced. I can appreciate the car for the nice, minty survivor that it is, but if I ever came into possession of it, well you could throw a fin on my back and call me flipper!

As cool as a minty survivor like that is, I can say without a doubt I would not want to own one like that, no matter what make/model. I would feel scared/guilty driving it, then it would be pointless for me to own. Better to be in some museum or some rich guy's collection.

I would feel the same way as you do if I owned such a low mileage survivor, but i completely disagree about the car being ugly; I think the '70 1/2 RS Z/28 is the best looking Camaro ever built and I'd love to have one. The only F-body I'd prefer to that one would be a 1970 1/2 - 1973 Pontiac Trans Am.

....I dig the color too.

Dave

I also agree...

And if you ever get a chance to actually drive a F body of that generation, you would be amazed at how good they really are. They brake and handle way better than the competition from Ford or Chrysler at that time. Also, if you haven't heard a solid lifter LT1 with 4.11 or 4.56 gears at 7,000 RPM. well, you haven't lived

....

MB

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/01/08 11:58 PM

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The 70 model was the "split bumper" version. I also think it is a wonerful design. Much better than the 72, 73 or 74 model. And to this date easily the fastest Z-28 ever built.

No, the split bumper was the ralley sport option. You could also get a full bumper 1970 Camaro, in either plain, Z/28, or SS (super sport) configuration

Posted By: 318 Stroker

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 12:18 AM

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The 70 model was the "split bumper" version. I also think it is a wonerful design. Much better than the 72, 73 or 74 model. And to this date easily the fastest Z-28 ever built.

No, the split bumper was the ralley sport option. You could also get a full bumper 1970 Camaro, in either plain, Z/28, or SS (super sport) configuration

The split bumper was standard on all RS Camaros from 70-73...

Posted By: ixelerate

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 12:22 AM

take some pictures of the oringinality and drive it. Eventually you're just gonna die so drive it while you can. What are you preserving it for? If it gets passed to my generation I'm just going to drive it.

Posted By: BarrsRestoration

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 12:39 AM

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Awsome car! From what I've seen of GM survivor cars, the quality control was even more lacking than Mopar at that time. Makes OE restorations of these cars very difficult, takes a true artist. BTW, as Dave W stated, interesting how a thread like that could go that long without negative comments. Doug

Having worked at dealerships during the 70's, and also doing restorations on both makes since then, my experience has been the total opposite.

Posted By: In_The_Pink

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 02:59 AM

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I hate to be a but I can't recall Chevys of that vintage ever using finned aluminum valve covers. And the more I look at the pictures, the more I'm having a real difficult time with 1100 original miles. Look at the pedal pads. Does that look like only 1100 miles?

I was thinking about this comment, then thinking about how much worse carpeting looks in a picture when a flash is used. BTDT when I sold a car last year and the carpet looked horrible in the picture.

It's hard to tell in the pic how much wear is on the brake pedal pad, but I don't see any wear on teh ribbed carpet pad, nor any to the right of the throttle pedal on the carpet.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 03:02 AM

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Awsome car! From what I've seen of GM survivor cars, the quality control was even more lacking than Mopar at that time. Makes OE restorations of these cars very difficult, takes a true artist. BTW, as Dave W stated, interesting how a thread like that could go that long without negative comments. Doug

Having worked at dealerships during the 70's, and also doing restorations on both makes since then, my experience has been the total opposite.

As much as it might burst a few bubbles, I have to agree.

Posted By: Iceman01

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 04:45 AM

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And if you ever get a chance to actually drive a F body of that generation, you would be amazed at how good they really are. They brake and handle way better than the competition from Ford or Chrysler at that time. Also, if you haven't heard a solid lifter LT1 with 4.11 or 4.56 gears at 7,000 RPM. well, you haven't lived

Ain't that the absolute truth! I remember it well...

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 04:13 PM

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I hate to be a but I can't recall Chevys of that vintage ever using finned aluminum valve covers. And the more I look at the pictures, the more I'm having a real difficult time with 1100 original miles. Look at the pedal pads. Does that look like only 1100 miles?

I was thinking about this comment, then thinking about how much worse carpeting looks in a picture when a flash is used. BTDT when I sold a car last year and the carpet looked horrible in the picture.

It's hard to tell in the pic how much wear is on the brake pedal pad, but I don't see any wear on teh ribbed carpet pad, nor any to the right of the throttle pedal on the carpet.

Some people seem to be able to tell alot more from some fuzzy pics than I can! Looks dirty to me and I can't tell whether there is wear or not. The car sounds legit and as mentioned before, the valve covers are stock.

Dave

Posted By: CrAzYMoPaRGuY

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 06:05 PM

Getting in the car a few times with dirty feet *might* be an explanation, but the guy sounds like he was obsessed with the car if he took it off the road for a little door ding...?
Seems weird he would get in the car with dirty feet let alone not clean the pedals if he made such a mess of them?

Maybe people over the years sat in the car, who knows.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/02/08 09:40 PM

Muscle Car Review's latest issue has some cool "survivors".

The really neat one is the 70 LS-6 454 Chevelle with 32 miles.

It shows how badly GM quality control was back then. Bumper on crooked with a huge gap at the top next to the body, SS stripes showing primer through and the masking job where the stripes go into the trunk channel was atrocious.

The thing that stood out most was the engine paint always looked terrible on ALL makes when they were new. That's why I laugh when I see restorations with glossy painted engines that look perfect.

Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 12/04/08 04:30 PM

Id get it running and beat it like a red headed step child

Of course thats my answer to what to do with any rare, expensive musclecar.

Posted By: HPMike

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 02/08/09 01:02 PM

The guy that got the car has it at his shop now and is starting to clean it up. More pics have been added with some pretty cool stuff.

Check it out

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/371161/page/0/fpart/51/vc/1/nt/50

MB

Posted By: Diego (not Ted)

Re: Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar - 02/08/09 04:38 PM

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I guess it's just puzzling to me that there cannot be just plain old discourse without all of the BS.

Wow, welcome to my world!

Unbelievable Survivor Found- Not Mopar