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to replace metal or repair it vs/ value.

Posted By: ek3

to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/24/12 01:05 AM

if i restore a car that has all it's factory metal,and can keep it , is that a plus ? would it be better to fix say a lower section on the quater or replace the entire panel? is it better to have all the metal that has any issues with any rust replaced? or would it be better from a value standpoint to repair the rusted section if that can be done within reason. for value purposes it would be a 100k type car restored. correct me or guide me in the best direction is what im after. Thanks for the help in advance
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/24/12 01:12 AM

Keep as much of the original metal as possible, if you just need a small section of a rear quarter patch it .
Posted By: Silver70

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/24/12 06:27 PM

For the cost, sometimes is cheaper to just replace the panel. On my own cars, I keep as much as I can. If it's a car for someone else, then I let them decide.
Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/24/12 08:16 PM

Quote:

For the cost, sometimes is cheaper to just replace the panel. On my own cars, I keep as much as I can. If it's a car for someone else, then I let them decide.



The customer is always right! Haha! For my own vehicles, I have my own list of criteria I use. Can it be repaired so that it would be impossible to tell from either side that it had been? I sometimes let the value of the vehicle dictate what KIND of panel I replace it with if that is the desired route. Keep in mind, a 100k resto doesn't always make the car a 100k car....NOS 1/4s on a 73 satellite is a bit of a waste IMO but a V code cuda deserves at LEAST AMD, if not NOS. If a small patch panel is required on a car like that, then I think a hand fabbed, butt welded and metal finished patch is in order to keep from disturbing OEM spot welds as well as retaining as much of the original metal as possible.
Posted By: ek3

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/24/12 11:10 PM

thats what i was thinking. a v code car should keep as much factory metal as you can. does it hurt value to replace the whole panel . how much does it normally reduce values ? i just want to do it the best way . not what someone thinks but, the accepted normal [if there is such a thing]way to repair the metal to the best standard.
Posted By: AAR#2

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/25/12 12:15 AM

That's a tricky subject but one that is ultimately best made by the owner of the car and the body man (if its not the same person). Remember a little rust in 3 sections of a relatively good 1/4 could cost a lot to repair and at what point do you own Abe Lincoln's axe?

Consider the craftsmanship of the shop, cheap scab patch with a fancy fill or true craftsmen that uses minimal fill because his work is shaped properly and welded like he took time and cares. Good work does not come cheap, repaired or replaced panels.

Also consider what could be hiding behind some marginal panels, less a borescope you may not know what danger was lurking until 2 years after your 10k paint starts to show blisters in an area that wasn't inspected and treated correctly.

What type of car, what type of restoration, and your budget and or business sense may all play factors in your decision. As previously stated, 100k Resto may yield a 30, 50, or 80k car

And remember to do your homework, no one ever takes their car to a bad body shop, but plenty can tell stories of picking their car up from one

Good luck whatever you decide !
Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/25/12 12:32 AM

Quote:

thats what i was thinking. a v code car should keep as much factory metal as you can. does it hurt value to replace the whole panel . how much does it normally reduce values ? i just want to do it the best way . not what someone thinks but, the accepted normal [if there is such a thing]way to repair the metal to the best standard.



I'm sure the answer to your question is a matter for debate after the holidays lol opinions will vary based on car, size and location of patch, technique of repair, etc. I don't think there is a widely accepted way of doing what you want to do...some of the best body men I know make flawless patches and TIG weld them in. If I had my choice of making and installing a patch, that's how I do it. Again, when panel replacement comes into play, I like to use a squeeze type resistance spot welder to duplicate the OEM plug welds but those methods are by no means industry standard if there is such a thing.

Do you have pics of what your referring to? Personally if we're talking about a V code cuda, I'd want a new panel hung if it were rotted to the wheelhouse. I wouldn't bother saving the upper portion. I know some people would. Does that hurt value? Maybe on a historic 1 of 1 but those cars have been found and restored a couple times already. Even I can't say for sure which route I'd take without taking quite a few variables into consideration.

EDIT: spoken like a true body guy I am, sorry! I'm not used to taking money/cost into cosideration when I do something but to the OP....at (enter stupid shop rate here) per hour, replacing the whole panel is wayyy cheaper 95% of the time than patching it, quality patches or metal tape and mud. Time isn't cheap unless your doing it yourself. I love working deals amongst tradesmen for this reason lol
Posted By: ek3

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/27/12 06:45 AM

thanks for input guys. i know it is big $ to patch in and mabe less to put in full panels. i personaly think full panels will insure a no rust deal. i just wondered if that was a value killer in your opinions. would'nt most of you agree that a true v code car needs to keep as much of its orig. sheet metal as posb. i was just getting some opinions on it. kind of an all things considered i would pro/ cons...
Posted By: Beebuzzn

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/27/12 06:20 PM

When I did my Challenger I did the patch and leave as much original metal as possible and butt weld. It cost twice as much, but at the time I had the body done 5 yrs. ago the replacement panels where garbage and the stampings were not close in details at all, if you looked at original and replacement together. Would I do it again this way probably not as I 'm the only one that would ever know and with the money saved I could of bought another hot rod.



Posted By: Silver70

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/27/12 06:30 PM

Quote:

thanks for input guys. i know it is big $ to patch in and mabe less to put in full panels. i personaly think full panels will insure a no rust deal. i just wondered if that was a value killer in your opinions. would'nt most of you agree that a true v code car needs to keep as much of its orig. sheet metal as posb. i was just getting some opinions on it. kind of an all things considered i would pro/ cons...



That's another factor too... sometimes no rust may be showing yet, but could come out soon. I had some pin holes scattered on the ps of my challenger, although it looked fixable, I just replaced the entire lower section. The last thing I want is to paint it, then have to redo it again in a year.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/27/12 08:47 PM

I always patch vs. replace but it needs to be done properly (butt welded and ground smooth) with all pitted or rusty metal removed.
I think it's important to keep as much of the original (and solid) sheet metal as possible.


Dave
Posted By: flypaper

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/27/12 11:02 PM

are you asking if one kind of repair will
create/hold more value then another kind of repair?
i would say no
the quality of work done to the car would matter more..
Posted By: OLD318

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/28/12 01:05 AM

Just my 2

A car wearing its original panels is always
worth more than one with repro sheet metal
all other things being equal...

Others will not agree.... but that's cool...
Posted By: pa340dart

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/29/12 07:33 PM

70 dart 340 4sp
bought a nos quarter last summer ($800.00) now i hate to use it whole and/or cut it up for patches
thinking of getting an AMD for pass side (same area as driv)
and comparing for fit and quality
any suggestions??

Attached picture 7523374-100_3571-1.jpg
Posted By: pa340dart

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/29/12 07:35 PM

another pic

Attached picture 7523377-100_3572-1.jpg
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/29/12 11:21 PM

Either hang the NOS on the car, or the wall, or sell it, carve those rusted turd qtrs off the car and replace both with NOS and or AMD, you'll be glad you did, leave the patches in the trash where they belong

Mike
Posted By: ek3

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 02:54 AM

Quote:

are you asking if one kind of repair will
create/hold more value then another kind of repair?
i would say no
the quality of work done to the car would matter more..

yes, thats exactly what i would like to know. on one hand it seems like factory metal is original and is the best metal and any replacement is no longer factory. on the other hand , if you spend big money on the car and there is no way to tell how much rust may be behind the quarters without removing them and you remove them to check, you lost the factory welds. it goes on and on. i am curious what real "worthy cars" have done in this situation. most likley they are put back with new metal ? i know this can go on and on , i dont want to cause a lot of head butting on this .. just a general opinion from the many knowlageable people on this site. thank's...
Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 03:12 AM

Quote:

70 dart 340 4sp
bought a nos quarter last summer ($800.00) now i hate to use it whole and/or cut it up for patches
thinking of getting an AMD for pass side (same area as driv)
and comparing for fit and quality
any suggestions??



NOS will require less finishing after installation than AMD but they will fit pretty much the same. Just don't patch it. To much rot there, and you still have alot of work to do behind the 1/4. 800 for an NOS 1/4 isn't a horrible price and really, a 340/4spd, high impact colored 70 swinger is about as rare as its gonna get in that body line. It's the most deserving car for the panel IMO
Posted By: flypaper

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 04:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

are you asking if one kind of repair will
create/hold more value then another kind of repair?
i would say no
the quality of work done to the car would matter more..

yes, thats exactly what i would like to know.



i say it really doesn't matter to most people.
when a car is off survivor status and its a restored car for sale
most people don't not care about the path traveled
they only care about the end result in front of them.
a missing fender tag would bother them and they wouldn't
have a thought about how many patches were on the car..
Posted By: Q5_Ed

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 05:42 PM

Quote:

Either hang the NOS on the car, or the wall, or sell it, carve those rusted turd qtrs off the car and replace both with NOS and or AMD, you'll be glad you did, leave the patches in the trash where they belong

Mike



How would you go about fixing these relatively rust free, but cut wheel lip area spliced in not so good job?s?

Attached picture 7524746-IMGP5077.JPG
Posted By: flypaper

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 06:18 PM

ed
saving that would really depend on how much overall warpage there is on that panel?
anything connected to that panel needs work also?
sometimes you have to know when to fold them
that would be alot of welding/ grinding to save for sure
if i chose to replace
orig first, amd would be my last resort

i don't think the way you attack it
will effect it any when you sell it if that is your thinking
the damage is already done.
Posted By: superbeeman69

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 09:04 PM

Ed, like flypaper said, the damage there is done. I always try to get an idea of the car before I make a call like that so I went back and saw that your a12 doesn't have much for "official" paperwork, not that I care personally, I'm huge on day 2 especially since you have all the cool photos. What that means to me tho, is that I wouldn't put 2000 into an NOS 1/4, or spend 40 hrs into graphing in a clean portion either. I'd spend the extra for a clean used 1/4 personally because its still a Q5 a12, second choice would be full AMD.

PS. I love to see the paint back on the lift off hood and the Fenton wheels back!
Posted By: pa340dart

Re: to replace metal or repair it vs/ value. - 12/30/12 09:20 PM

thanks all for your comments
think I will look for nos pass quarter (AMD last choice)
need work on wheelhoust + extension (both sides)
I want /need my dart done >> parked it in 1985 in garage
The bad news I can't weld anymore (defib installed 2011)
I can remove qtrs fit and attach qtrs on (hire welder to spot weld)

I realy dont care about value (although i would think twice if i was looking @ a car with extensive patching warping bondo etc)
I would think very hard about buying

So oem/nos quarter panels and AMD wheelhoust + extension
is the way I'll go
I don't know if this is such a RARE dart see lots @ carlisle

70 dart swinger 340 4sp 3.91 posi #'s match plum crazy, white vinyl top
thanks
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