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Overheating/Water flow Question

Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 08:25 PM

The car hasn't been driven in years and it just got back on the road. It has a brand new radiator, new hoses(including internal spring on lower hose) and new fluid. I filled it up and started the car. After a while I checked the fluid and it was obvious that the fluid level was visually lower in the radiator. I assumed this meant that the t-stat had opened and let water flow into the block. I added fluid to top it off about 1 inch below the radiator neck.

After driving it around town for about 10 mins, I stopped at a gas station and the overflow hose was spitting fluid out onto the ground. Does this mean it was overheating or could it have just been overfilled?

Car seems to be running fine, but I am concerned about driving it and possibly having some damage due to overheating.

It is a '67 440.

If I take off the radiator cap when it is running and see the fluid flowing nicely does that mean everything is ok??

Posted By: None2Slow

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 08:31 PM

You should put a coolant recovery tank (overflow bottle)on. If you fill it to the top when its cool, then it will spit out coolant when warm. Then when you re-check it, it will be low. An overflow tank will cature and refill the radiator as needed. What does the gauge show when running?
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 08:36 PM

Quote:

You should put a coolant recovery tank (overflow bottle)on. If you fill it to the top when its cool, then it will spit out coolant when warm. Then when you re-check it, it will be low. An overflow tank will cature and refill the radiator as needed. What does the gauge show when running?

you should be fine!
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 09:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You should put a coolant recovery tank (overflow bottle)on. If you fill it to the top when its cool, then it will spit out coolant when warm. Then when you re-check it, it will be low. An overflow tank will cature and refill the radiator as needed. What does the gauge show when running?

you should be fine!



so then if I take off the radiator cap when it is running and see the fluid flowing nicely does that mean everything is probably ok?
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 09:55 PM

yep!
Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 09:58 PM

Yes, if you can see water flowing once the thermostat is open you should be fine. Just my opinion but, I do not think you really need the recovery tank. I mean, it couldn't hurt...but it isn't needed.
Posted By: WILD BILL

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:03 PM

Not all catch cans and radiator caps are the same though. Some (like the one on my car) will capture fluid coming out of the radiator but not return it to the system.

Make sure the bottle and cap you get are designed to return coolant back to the system and you will be fine.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:13 PM

I'm concerned that it started spitting after only 10 minutes. I'm assuming the stat sat for those years. I would take out the stat & do for a drive & holler back & working the stat w your hands to see if it's free and no stat for a few minutes of driving is not going to hurt things from a delayed warmup. I would also drill a ~1/16" hole in the flat of it for easier fillup & lets air pockets out & takes 2 minutes to do & no down sides. EDIT I'm assuming the timing/shroud/fan/fan distance are acceptable
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:23 PM

Quote:

I'm concerned that it started spitting after only 10 minutes. I'm assuming the stat sat for those years. I would take out the stat & do for a drive & holler back & working the stat w your hands to see if it's free and no stat for a few minutes of driving is not going to hurt things from a delayed warmup. I would also drill a ~1/16" hole in the flat of it for easier fillup & lets air pockets out & takes 2 minutes to do & no down sides. EDIT I'm assuming the timing/shroud/fan/fan distance are acceptable



The fan/shroud combo are stock and have been on the car for years. None of those parts are aftermarket parts.

I see a very swift current of moving fluid when I open the cap and look in. It seems to me that it is obviously open(t-stat). I may buy a replacement stat and gasket at the show this weekend. I am thinking that it should be fine to drive to the rod run since it is only 2 miles away from the house.

BTW....the gauge stays right under half way between cold and hot when it was water out. I would think that is a safe operating temperature.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:33 PM

All you posted sounds pretty good. What about the cap, was it new w the rad?. Tho spitting after only 10 minutes seems not right (to me) & it might have just been an air pocket letting a hot spot develop causing steam making the big jump in psi. Stay in touch
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:55 PM

Quote:

All you posted sounds pretty good. What about the cap, was it new w the rad?. Tho spitting after only 10 minutes seems not right (to me) & it might have just been an air pocket letting a hot spot develop causing steam making the big jump in psi. Stay in touch

when a person is full of turkey and stuffing all is supposed to right in the world............ he just over filled and the rad threw up a little
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 10:58 PM

lets hope so
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/24/11 11:52 PM

Quote:

All you posted sounds pretty good. What about the cap, was it new w the rad?. Tho spitting after only 10 minutes seems not right (to me) & it might have just been an air pocket letting a hot spot develop causing steam making the big jump in psi. Stay in touch



The radiator cap is the original cap that I re-used on the new radiator. I will drive it again in the morning and see what I find. The car show is only 2 miles away and then it will be sitting all day as I roll through the swap meet aisles!!!!

I will let you know how it goes tomorrow.
Posted By: DennisH

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 12:24 AM

Quote:

Yes, if you can see water flowing once the thermostat is open you should be fine. Just my opinion but, I do not think you really need the recovery tank. I mean, it couldn't hurt...but it isn't needed.


Agreed. No tank needed. Leave an inch or two from the neck to allow. Get a laser-thermometer at Harbor Freight or wherever to be sure of actual temp. 180 Superstat from Napa if it would need to be changed.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 12:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, if you can see water flowing once the thermostat is open you should be fine. Just my opinion but, I do not think you really need the recovery tank. I mean, it couldn't hurt...but it isn't needed.


Agreed. No tank needed. Leave an inch or two from the neck to allow. Get a laser-thermometer at Harbor Freight or wherever to be sure of actual temp. 180 Superstat from Napa if it would need to be changed.



I have a laser thermometer. Would I just take a reading of the fluid temp that is flowing across the top of the radiator when the car is at operating temp?

What temp should I feel comfortable driving with? Under 205??? What temp difference should I see since I will be doing this at an idle with no air flowing through the radiator?
Posted By: DennisH

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 12:44 AM

You will get lots of opinions here. I check the thermostat housing, upper and lower hoses and radiator itself. Flirting with 208 or so at extended idle would not worry me if the temp fluctuates with the opening and closing of the stat.

My 440 will drop to well below 180 when moving after extended extreme idling conditions like Reno in August at 5000 feet. Mine doesn't spit anymore after I got over the "top it up" disease that is evidenced at lots of car show.
Posted By: 70RR383

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 02:09 AM

I ran my 383 this summer with the AC on for a 2 hour drive in 100 % weather .I freaked because it got up to 230(acording to the temp gauge)for a little while,then back down to 200 .I went to my radiator guy thinking I might need a new cap or something and he said even that hot is nothing to really worry about.I have founfd that you just cover the holes in the radiator when COLD and everything is fine.NO MORE
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 02:15 AM

Any issue with running it without a stat for a few days? I can't imagine why it would be a problem, but I am still learning. Now that I think about it....I am not sure why you even need a thermostat. Why wouldn't you want a cooling system that has no obstructions and has constant flow through the block and radiator???
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 02:40 AM

I removed the stat and put the water neck back on and started the car. I saw an immediate "river" flowing through the radiator. I am going to get a new stat and gasket tomorrow.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 04:02 AM

Actually before you put the new stat in take it out & see if it pukes in 10 minutes. We gotta ID the prob before we go any farther. I wont go into why you need the stat but it's critical and I highly suggest you drill a 1/16" hole in the flat just outside the center "mechanism" section for easier fillups. Keep us posted. EDIT get a 180 stat (no less than 180)
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 04:31 AM

Quote:

Actually before you put the new stat in take it out & see if it pukes in 10 minutes. We gotta ID the prob before we go any farther. I wont go into why you need the stat but it's critical and I highly suggest you drill a 1/16" hole in the flat just outside the center "mechanism" section for easier fillups. Keep us posted. EDIT get a 180 stat (no less than 180)


I actually have been reading other posts about why you need a stat and think I have a better understanding of the cooling system now.

I will drive the car around the block tomorrow and see where we end up.

Thanks for helping me troubleshoot this.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 04:33 AM

I'm hoping tomorrow you holler back w some good news
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/25/11 05:21 AM

Quote:

I removed the stat and put the water neck back on and started the car. I saw an immediate "river" flowing through the radiator. I am going to get a new stat and gasket tomorrow.



Put your stat in a pot of water on the stove...
use your wifes meat temp probe and see when the
stat opens
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 12:39 AM

Quote:

I'm hoping tomorrow you holler back w some good news



I think I have good news

I put in a new gasket without a thermostat and refilled the fluid. I filled it to approx. 1 inch below the cap. Let the car warm up and idle in the garage for over 10 mins and then took it out for a drive. I ended up driving around for over 20 mins in 70 degree weather and stopped a few times to check things out. The car never seemed to get very hot and only had a few drops of fluid coming out of the overflow hose. I took a thermometer with me to take true readings and it never seemed to get above 165 degrees(checking water flowing across the top of the radiator after removing cap). I put the cap back on and drove it more. After 30 mins, I took it back to the house and it never spewed out anything.

Remember, this was running without a stat.

Does that operating temp sound too low for this scenario or is that about right?

I am planning on driving it to the car show tomorrow if everything goes ok.

Thanks
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 01:33 AM

again..... you should be fine. i would think 165 on a 70 degree day is ok. without the stat there are issues to be considered but nothing that would stop you from your car show swap meet quest!
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 02:05 AM

Quote:

I think I have good news

That is good news. Press on the valve in the center of the new stat back & forth a few times just to confirm it's free on the pin & toss it in before or after the show. I'd want at least 180 operating temp before the stat opens. What temp stat did you get?. 2 minutes to drill the ~1/16" hole you'll be glad you did with the easier fillup it will afford you.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 02:17 AM

Quote:

What temp stat did you get?. 2 minutes to drill the ~1/16" hole you'll be glad you did with the easier fillup it will afford you.



I could only find a 195 degree thermostat in stock locally.

Where would you drill this hole?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 02:25 AM

a 195 will work for you. Drill it in the flat just outside of the center "mechanism" about halfway between the edge of the mechanism wall and the perimeter of the stat itself. It does not have to be exact.
Posted By: DennisH

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 02:42 AM

180. NAPA. Superstat. No holes needed.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 02:50 AM

Quote:

a 195 will work for you. Drill it in the flat just outside of the center "mechanism" about halfway between the edge of the mechanism wall and the perimeter of the stat itself. It does not have to be exact.



just opened the new stat to inspect it and noticed that it already has a weep hole drilled in the flange.

Thanks
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/26/11 03:00 AM

with no recov tank you should have a non-vented rad cap

replace the old one that you used on the new rad,most likly it will tend to leak as the rubber is old.IMO

install the stat and fill it up drive it till it stops puking each time you stop,it will find its own fill level..when it does note it for future referance when adding or refilling the rad later.

it all sound good to me other than the old cap and overfilling.
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 12:07 AM

and despite our best efforts, he made it to his show ! story is over in the 'general' section.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 01:17 AM

Quote:

and despite our best efforts, he made it to his show ! story is over in the 'general' section.



Nothing was gonna keep me from my first car show in 12 years!!!!! I left the stat out and made a boogie for the race track

Things went perfect and I even got a picture of the car on the track at Daytona International Speedway

Thanks to all of my Moparts mechanic friends, we now have another survivor back on the road!!
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 04:00 AM

Good deal. Post any developments
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 04:12 AM

I am probably going to schedule an appt. with a brake shop and have them do a check up on the system. I heard there is a guy at a brake shop near me who specializes in older cars and he said he would do a safety inspection and adjustment/power bleed if necessary.

Since it was my first brake job I want to make sure everything is functioning properly.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 04:14 AM

What about the stat, is the new one in/running acceptable temps? EDIT Oh you musta posted that in the general post which I missed
Posted By: DennisH

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/28/11 04:45 AM

I'd like to hear more about the stat too. Stand by, I have to get over my Vertigo and drill a hole in my thermostat. All this while hundreds of new Callengers pass by my driveway. No wait, wrong thread.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/29/11 12:09 AM

Quote:

I am probably going to schedule an appt. with a brake shop and have them do a check up on the system. I heard there is a guy at a brake shop near me who specializes in older cars and he said he would do a safety inspection and adjustment/power bleed if necessary.

Since it was my first brake job I want to make sure everything is functioning properly.



I think I just hi-jacked my own thread!!!

I have been staying up so late in the garage working, I just realized that I posted about the brake job on the overheating/stat post!!!

Alright...here we go.....I ordered a new 180 stat and it should be in tomorrow or Wednesday. I wont really have time to install it and run around in it until later this week. I decided to use that temp stat instead of the 195. I will post how it turns out and some temperature readings this weekend.
Posted By: 70RR383

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/29/11 12:17 AM

You are still over filling the rad.Just put in enough to cover the inside holes.Trust me,thats all you need.After all this if you over fill it it will just spew again if overfilled.
Posted By: HelleOnWheels

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/29/11 12:38 AM

Quote:

You are still over filling the rad.Just put in enough to cover the inside holes.Trust me,thats all you need.After all this if you over fill it it will just spew again if overfilled.



I am not overfilling it. I only put in just enough to cover the ribs/holes and nothing more. I have already learned and gotten over my feelings that I have to keep it topped off

Thanks
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/29/11 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You are still over filling the rad.Just put in enough to cover the inside holes.Trust me,thats all you need.After all this if you over fill it it will just spew again if overfilled.



I am not overfilling it. I only put in just enough to cover the ribs/holes and nothing more. I have already learned and gotten over my feelings that I have to keep it topped off

Thanks

i think he meant you initially over-filled way back when. i think so too........... i constantly do it
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Overheating/Water flow Question - 11/29/11 12:56 AM

Quote:

Since it was my first brake job I want to make sure everything is functioning properly.
I think I just hi-jacked my own thread!!!

I have been staying up so late in the garage working, I just realized that I posted about the brake job on the overheating/stat post!!!

Thank God you explained it, I thought for a second that I was either was coming down w Vertigo or I just flat missed it (I couldn't find it) in the general section
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