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Painting questions...

Posted By: 4boxers4

Painting questions... - 11/23/11 08:35 PM

What steps do you typically take when cleaning up before applying a color base. Can you water wash? only over primered parts or bodywork too?
I used some thinner to clean over my epoxy primer but when I shot some Dupont Hot Hues over it...there were spots that wrinkled. I didn't wait alot of time for the thinner to flash off in some areas, before painting, I am assuming. The paint was a couple years old, stored inside so I don't think that was it. There used be to some product named prep clean or something, people used to use.
I need to repair those locations and my plan was to sand down to the primer layer, then scuff the color surrounding it with 800 grit, then wipe and reshoot. The Hot Hues thinner is special so maybe I should wipe with that before re-applying?
Any tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated. Step by step layman's terms works best as I am a motivated novice. Thanks!
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Painting questions... - 11/23/11 09:01 PM

novice here too.

Wash and rinse well.
Try not to touch it with anything from here on out, except as listed. No laying tape on it, putting your hands on it, etc.

Make sure it's completely dry!
Mask it.
Put it in the booth.
cover the tires.
Wipe it down with wax and grease remover.
Tack cloth.
Spray.
Posted By: AeroMonte

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 01:55 AM

You can not use water over bare bondo or metal as it will start to rust. You can use water over epoxy primer, paint etc. After you have final sanded the panel and are ready to paint, wash with soap and water then let dry. Mask the panel as needed and then wipe it down with Final Clean(DoPont #3901) and a soft towel. We use blue paper shop towels from the auto parts store. Then use a good tack rag and final wipe the panel. You really should spray a sealer before you base to help keep the solvents from attacking the substrate. You are now ready to spray your base. Don't hose the base on, use medium coats and you should do just fine. Be sure to let each coat flash completely or you will have problems. Be sure your spray area is clean and blow yourself off real good before spraying.
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 01:55 AM

Do not ever use thinner,acetone or reducer to wipe before paint,unless it's bare metal or some tractor.

Use prep-solvent that is designed for precisely wiping parts down prior topcoat.

Do not use rattlecan or cheap lacquer based primer.Only 2-part primer should be used on anything that you want to last.

If you don't want to use prep-solvent,buy 3M grey or red scothbrite pads for final prep ,you can wash with water and dry with clean lint-free cloth. I prefer using microfiber towels before paint,because there is zero lint. I've tried many towels and nothing beats microfiber.
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 02:03 AM

I would not wash with water, because water is absorbed by primer.
i used to do that until i got water bubbles under paint.
I would blow off with air , auto body tack rag (there is a difference.)
then wax and grease wipe and dry with clean white paper towels .
tape and wax and grease again and dry . mix paint into gun ,
lightly pass auto body tack rag just before spray and if need have it handy after base is dry to lightly catch nubs before laying down clear .
Posted By: challengermike

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:41 AM

wax and grease remover,also called prep sol.Every brand paint calls it some thing different.You can also use the tack rag inbetween coats of base,but not inbetween coats of clear.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 07:20 AM

2 things I learned on the last car I did.... If your compressor sits outside and it's cold in your neck of the woods you need to warm your air up a little bit. I insulated all of the pipes with pipe insulation (from home depot) from the compressor to the wall going into the garage. Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.

The next thing I learned if you put a couple extra coats of clear on so you have extra clear to wet sand off to get the paint perfectly smooth. The flash times are progressive. If you waited 20 minutes after your first coat of clear wait 30 minutes after your second coat, 40 minutes after your third coat, 50 minutes after your fourth coat and so on.

These 2 things made a major difference for me on my last project
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 02:41 PM

Quote:

2 things I learned on the last car I did.... If your compressor sits outside and it's cold in your neck of the woods you need to warm your air up a little bit. I insulated all of the pipes with pipe insulation (from home depot) from the compressor to the wall going into the garage. Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.

The next thing I learned if you put a couple extra coats of clear on so you have extra clear to wet sand off to get the paint perfectly smooth. The flash times are progressive. If you waited 20 minutes after your first coat of clear wait 30 minutes after your second coat, 40 minutes after your third coat, 50 minutes after your fourth coat and so on.

These 2 things made a major difference for me on my last project



I wonder who gave you all the ideas.

As far as I know, air supply needs to be refrigerated to eliminate condensation/moisture ,not heated. Because it gets hot or warm coming out of the compressor.

Waiting longer than 30 minutes between coats on clear is walking on thin ice,especially if waiting 50 or more minutes. Maybe if you use some weird clear and add retarder.In most cases fresh coat of clear after 30+ minutes can ruin all the work,because previous coat ,which has already started to solidify, can wrinkle from solvents in the following coat.

OP, read tech sheet on the products you use,follow the instructions and you will be just fine.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 02:49 PM

Quote:

2 things I learned on the last car I did.... If your compressor sits outside and it's cold in your neck of the woods you need to warm your air up a little bit. I insulated all of the pipes with pipe insulation (from home depot) from the compressor to the wall going into the garage. Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.

The next thing I learned if you put a couple extra coats of clear on so you have extra clear to wet sand off to get the paint perfectly smooth. The flash times are progressive. If you waited 20 minutes after your first coat of clear wait 30 minutes after your second coat, 40 minutes after your third coat, 50 minutes after your fourth coat and so on.

These 2 things made a major difference for me on my last project



I usually lay down 3 coats of clear and reduce each
coat with 10% more thinner on each coat... this will
lay out super smooth and leaves very little sanding...
I never wash it with water(you cant get it all to
dry or blow out)... I always use a sealer before
shooting the base
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 02:52 PM

Quote:

I would not wash with water, because water is absorbed by primer.
i used to do that until i got water bubbles under paint.
I would blow off with air , auto body tack rag (there is a difference.)
then wax and grease wipe and dry with clean white paper towels .
tape and wax and grease again and dry . mix paint into gun ,
lightly pass auto body tack rag just before spray and if need have it handy after base is dry to lightly catch nubs before laying down clear .



Depends on what primer is being used and if you shoot paint the instant after wiping.Most likely you didn't wait 5-10 minutes before spraying or your air supply needs better filters. I've been washing most of my work before paint for over 20 years,not once I had (water bubbles) you're talking about.
Posted By: BRONZEBEE

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 03:45 PM

If you get in a hurry and use the wrong products you will do it again
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 04:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

2 things I learned on the last car I did.... If your compressor sits outside and it's cold in your neck of the woods you need to warm your air up a little bit. I insulated all of the pipes with pipe insulation (from home depot) from the compressor to the wall going into the garage. Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.

The next thing I learned if you put a couple extra coats of clear on so you have extra clear to wet sand off to get the paint perfectly smooth. The flash times are progressive. If you waited 20 minutes after your first coat of clear wait 30 minutes after your second coat, 40 minutes after your third coat, 50 minutes after your fourth coat and so on.

These 2 things made a major difference for me on my last project



I wonder who gave you all the ideas.

As far as I know, air supply needs to be refrigerated to eliminate condensation/moisture ,not heated. Because it gets hot or warm coming out of the compressor.

Waiting longer than 30 minutes between coats on clear is walking on thin ice,especially if waiting 50 or more minutes. Maybe if you use some weird clear and add retarder.In most cases fresh coat of clear after 30+ minutes can ruin all the work,because previous coat ,which has already started to solidify, can wrinkle from solvents in the following coat.

OP, read tech sheet on the products you use,follow the instructions and you will be just fine.



I never said I heated the air I said I warmed the air as in I brought it to the temp of the room I was spraying in. If you read my post I said the warmer is in the line between the regulator and the hose going to my paint gun. I don't know what kind of hokey setup you use but my air is dry and clean before it gets to the hose going to my gun.
I was just trying to tell the OP 2 things that made a huge difference in my finished product.

Hey OP ....Go to http://www.autobody101.com/forums/ it's a forum that has professional painters answering questions like the one you asked.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:12 PM

Quote:

novice here too.

Wash and rinse well.
Try not to touch it with anything from here on out, except as listed. No laying tape on it, putting your hands on it, etc.

Make sure it's completely dry!
Mask it.
Put it in the booth.
cover the tires.
Wipe it down with wax and grease remover.
Tack cloth.
Spray.



This guy knows what he's talking about
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:14 PM

Quote:

I would not wash with water, because water is absorbed by primer.
i used to do that until i got water bubbles under paint.
I would blow off with air , auto body tack rag (there is a difference.)
then wax and grease wipe and dry with clean white paper towels .
tape and wax and grease again and dry . mix paint into gun ,
lightly pass auto body tack rag just before spray and if need have it handy after base is dry to lightly catch nubs before laying down clear .



and so does this guy
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:15 PM

Quote:

wax and grease remover,also called prep sol.Every brand paint calls it some thing different.You can also use the tack rag inbetween coats of base,but not inbetween coats of clear.



This guy too
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

2 things I learned on the last car I did.... If your compressor sits outside and it's cold in your neck of the woods you need to warm your air up a little bit. I insulated all of the pipes with pipe insulation (from home depot) from the compressor to the wall going into the garage. Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.

The next thing I learned if you put a couple extra coats of clear on so you have extra clear to wet sand off to get the paint perfectly smooth. The flash times are progressive. If you waited 20 minutes after your first coat of clear wait 30 minutes after your second coat, 40 minutes after your third coat, 50 minutes after your fourth coat and so on.

These 2 things made a major difference for me on my last project



I usually lay down 3 coats of clear and reduce each
coat with 10% more thinner on each coat... this will
lay out super smooth and leaves very little sanding...
I never wash it with water(you cant get it all to
dry or blow out)... I always use a sealer before
shooting the base




and this guy
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:24 PM

Elite, it may get warm coming out of the compressor, but also cools coming out of the tank!
Pressure rises=temp rises
Pressure drops=temp drops

It sounds like he's concerned with air temp at the gun and going onto the body. Not a bad thing to consider.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:25 PM

Quote:

You can not use water over bare bondo or metal as it will start to rust. You can use water over epoxy primer, paint etc. After you have final sanded the panel and are ready to paint, wash with soap and water then let dry. Mask the panel as needed and then wipe it down with Final Clean(DoPont #3901) and a soft towel. We use blue paper shop towels from the auto parts store. Then use a good tack rag and final wipe the panel. You really should spray a sealer before you base to help keep the solvents from attacking the substrate. You are now ready to spray your base. Don't hose the base on, use medium coats and you should do just fine. Be sure to let each coat flash completely or you will have problems. Be sure your spray area is
clean and blow yourself off real good before spraying.



I would let this guy paint my Mom's car
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Painting questions... - 11/24/11 05:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I don't know what kind of hokey setup you use but my air is dry and clean before it gets to the hose going to my gun.




Tom, did you ever stop to think that a guy who has made a living restoring cars in Florida might know a thing or two about moisture and humidity as it relates to painting cars?

...hokey setup I suspect you are underestimating the expertise on this board.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/25/11 06:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



I don't know what kind of hokey setup you use but my air is dry and clean before it gets to the hose going to my gun.




Tom, did you ever stop to think that a guy who has made a living restoring cars in Florida might know a thing or two about moisture and humidity as it relates to painting cars?

...hokey setup I suspect you are underestimating the expertise on this board.



Greg,
I never underestimated the expertise on this board I have gained tons of knowledge from this forum and appreciate it 100%.

I just questioned Elites ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it. I would figure that a "Professional painter" would know that air would be clean and dry before it went into the hose going to the gun. Unless he's the kind of " Professional painter" that has a filter and refrigerated dryer attached to his gun while he paints.
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/25/11 03:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



I don't know what kind of hokey setup you use but my air is dry and clean before it gets to the hose going to my gun.




Tom, did you ever stop to think that a guy who has made a living restoring cars in Florida might know a thing or two about moisture and humidity as it relates to painting cars?

...hokey setup I suspect you are underestimating the expertise on this board.



Greg,
I never underestimated the expertise on this board I have gained tons of knowledge from this forum and appreciate it 100%.

I just questioned Elites ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it. I would figure that a "Professional painter" would know that air would be clean and dry before it went into the hose going to the gun. Unless he's the kind of " Professional painter" that has a filter and refrigerated dryer attached to his gun while he paints.




73,I could not decipher much from the run-on mess with something about painting 73 roadrunner heater core.

Most compressed air refrigerated dryer are compact in size and are usually installed right after compressor.My air supply dryer/filtration setup has been working just fine for 15 years.BTW,every shop has different air compressors,dryers,filters,e.t.c. ,which vary not only by size,output,brand,e.t.c., but by age, maintenance or lack of and many other significant factors,so I do not assume that every shop's air supply is just as clean as another.

Maybe you need a backpack heater for your air supply to paint gun at Noth Pole Restorations ?


And waiting 50 minutes between coats of clear? Really? I guess that's how it's done by professional painters on North Pole

That kind of advice can ruin months of someone's hard work. Because there are hundreds of clearcoats on the market with many options of reducers and hardeners for various temperatures and speeds.Many of them will react different to fresh coat after 20,30,40,50 or more minutes.So,unless you know which specific clear,reducer and hardener OP is using, I would keep that advice to yourself .
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Painting questions... - 11/25/11 03:44 PM

And waiting 50 minutes between coats of clear? Really? I guess that's how it's done by professional painters on North Pole

That kind of advice can ruin months of someone's hard work. Because there are hundreds of clearcoats on the market with many options of reducers and hardeners for various temperatures and speeds.Many of them will react different to fresh coat after 20,30,40,50 or more minutes.So,unless you know which specific clear,reducer and hardener OP is using, I would keep that advice to yourself .



Once I shoot a clear coat I thin the remaining
amount and start shooting again... the voc need to
float up through... pretty hard when its dry
Posted By: 4boxers4

Re: Painting questions... - 11/25/11 10:59 PM

ok I can wash over epoxy but not bodywork? How do I get it clean in that stage(prep for primer)? I will get some of the Dupont 3901. Would I need an additional sealer over my epoxy paint(Zero Rust) or can I just go straight to color? Thanks for all the help...sorry for soooo many questions but that is how you learn, without too many mistakes.

Anyone ever heard of a shelf life for paint, even if it is kept in a temp controlled envoironment? Thanks
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 02:54 AM

Quote:

ok I can wash over epoxy but not bodywork? How do I get it clean in that stage(prep for primer)? I will get some of the Dupont 3901. Would I need an additional sealer over my epoxy paint(Zero Rust) or can I just go straight to color? Thanks for all the help...sorry for soooo many questions but that is how you learn, without too many mistakes.

Anyone ever heard of a shelf life for paint, even if it is kept in a temp controlled envoironment? Thanks



blow off car, prep wipe, tack, prime. Most paint systems suggest you use "their" sealer prior to top coats. Not sure on zero rust products but most epoxy primers I've used have a re-coat window check the specifics on their products on whats required. Catalyzed paints are photo-reactive(think that's what it was called) so anything that's been opened for a good length of time is suspect, if it doesn't properly catalyze you have a real mess.

The best advice I can give you is to follow the paint manufactures guidelines , most have info sheets available, they have it scienced out to achieve decent results, some of the info posted in this thread I don't agree with such as over reduction of materials and excessive flash times can lead to problems such as delamination , die back, solvent popping, and a less durable finish, much better to learn to paint the materials as designed.
Posted By: 74fldart

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 02:59 AM

i have used paint that was in the can for almost 10 yrs and it worked fine. but i dont recommend doing it.
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 03:36 AM

Quote:

i have used paint that was in the can for almost 10 yrs and it worked fine. but i dont recommend doing it.



Alkyd's and most acrylic's would be fine, urethane's tend to turn into a gooey mess that never dries
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 05:39 AM

Quote:

And waiting 50 minutes between coats of clear? Really? I guess that's how it's done by professional painters on North Pole

That kind of advice can ruin months of someone's hard work. Because there are hundreds of clearcoats on the market with many options of reducers and hardeners for various temperatures and speeds.Many of them will react different to fresh coat after 20,30,40,50 or more minutes.So,unless you know which specific clear,reducer and hardener OP is using, I would keep that advice to yourself .



Once I shoot a clear coat I thin the remaining
amount and start shooting again... the voc need to
float up through... pretty hard when its dry




Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 05:48 AM

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 06:51 AM

Quote:

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates




If I were you, I'd find product data sheet instead of listening to your painting instructor or rep. Usually they are easily obtainable online.
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 07:14 AM

Quote:

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates




Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, but I have been through PPG school , Dupont school, through several in shop demo's by by such companies as Sikkins , Standox, and Glasurit by factory reps, none ever suggested deviating from the engineered reduction ratio's because they actually work. There is no need to deviate. The issues I presented in my previous post(several posts back) still hold true, over reduction produces weakened film strength (due to all that extra reducer) and a less durable finish. Some paint systems over reduction of clear will re-float the metallic in your base or wrinkle it ruining your paint job.

If what you do works for you, cool, while the results are satisfactory, your not achieving the level of finish you could be, given the materials your using, if you stick to the paint manufactures guidelines.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 07:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates




Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, but I have been through PPG school , Dupont school, through several in shop demo's by by such companies as Sikkins , Standox, and Glasurit by factory reps, none ever suggested deviating from the engineered reduction ratio's because they actually work. There is no need to deviate. The issues I presented in my previous post(several posts back) still hold true, over reduction produces weakened film strength (due to all that extra reducer) and a less durable finish. Some paint systems over reduction of clear will re-float the metallic in your base or wrinkle it ruining your paint job.

If what you do works for you, cool, while the results are satisfactory, your not achieving the level of finish you could be, given the materials your using, if you stick to the paint manufactures guidelines.



What ever guys... its been working for me for years
now and I plan on continuing the same process...
(by the way it was a PPG rep)
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 01:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates




Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, but I have been through PPG school , Dupont school, through several in shop demo's by by such companies as Sikkins , Standox, and Glasurit by factory reps, none ever suggested deviating from the engineered reduction ratio's because they actually work. There is no need to deviate. The issues I presented in my previous post(several posts back) still hold true, over reduction produces weakened film strength (due to all that extra reducer) and a less durable finish. Some paint systems over reduction of clear will re-float the metallic in your base or wrinkle it ruining your paint job.

If what you do works for you, cool, while the results are satisfactory, your not achieving the level of finish you could be, given the materials your using, if you stick to the paint manufactures guidelines.



What ever guys... its been working for me for years
now and I plan on continuing the same process...
(by the way it was a PPG rep)




Some of those ppg reps can come in pick up a gun and show you how to use their materials properly. Some are just pushing product. not picking, just saying
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 02:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Is that what you got from data sheet ? This may have worked with cheap lacquer ,but it's a bad idea for urethane products. Reducing clearcoat will cause dieback, making it dull,easy to scratch,chip and will lead to premature deterioration.Even if you try buffing,it will not have the gloss and luster of properly mixed and applied urethane clearcoat. Just wondering, what kind of warranty your paint jobs come with?



I got that from a painting instructor and I asked a
rep for the company.. he said its fine also... plus
the thinner evaporates




Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, but I have been through PPG school , Dupont school, through several in shop demo's by by such companies as Sikkins , Standox, and Glasurit by factory reps, none ever suggested deviating from the engineered reduction ratio's because they actually work. There is no need to deviate. The issues I presented in my previous post(several posts back) still hold true, over reduction produces weakened film strength (due to all that extra reducer) and a less durable finish. Some paint systems over reduction of clear will re-float the metallic in your base or wrinkle it ruining your paint job.

If what you do works for you, cool, while the results are satisfactory, your not achieving the level of finish you could be, given the materials your using, if you stick to the paint manufactures guidelines.



Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 03:21 PM

Some of those ppg reps can come in pick up a gun and show you how to use their materials properly. Some are just pushing product. not picking, just saying



I seen it done alot in the paint shop/lab at Chrysler
by the painters there... I tried it like the sheet
says also
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 04:02 PM

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 04:33 PM

Quote:

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah



This comes from someone that was just questioning my ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it.

I quote your useless post just so you can't go back and edit.

Now go back and pay close attention to my previous post. I quoted wicked's post agreeing with him. So keep talking out of your a$$,you're just making that hole deeper.I'm not even going to post pics of my work because you're just a troll . Go install couple more heater cores in your air supply,you might get even better results and don't forget to wait couple hours between coats,you might just come up with the ultimate paint job ever
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 07:13 PM

Quote:

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah



I said it, and I never worked behind a paint counter. I've done it for a living, and painted a lot of cars over my lifetime with all different materials. They all worked mixed as per the directions.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 07:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah



This comes from someone that was just questioning my ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it.

I quote your useless post just so you can't go back and edit.

Now go back and pay close attention to my previous post. I quoted wicked's post agreeing with him. So keep talking out of your a$$,you're just making that hole deeper.I'm not even going to post pics of my work because you're just a troll . Go install couple more heater cores in your air supply,you might get even better results and don't forget to wait couple hours between coats,you might just come up with the ultimate paint job ever



Hahahahhahha Yup no pissing contest here. Hahahahhahha That's still some funny sh&t Hahahahhahha
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 07:35 PM

To the OP. Original point being, I can't condone playing chemist, It's already been scienced out. Focus on application. To give an example, I put a coat of clear on watch it lay down and how long it takes to flash, this gives some parameters for applying the next coat,you know how it's going to handle, change reduction the next coat will handle differently. More variables introduced. You'll have enough going on without turning it into a chemistry experiment. The materials being consistent from coat to coat will accelerate your learning curve.
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 08:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah



This comes from someone that was just questioning my ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it.

I quote your useless post just so you can't go back and edit.

Now go back and pay close attention to my previous post. I quoted wicked's post agreeing with him. So keep talking out of your a$$,you're just making that hole deeper.I'm not even going to post pics of my work because you're just a troll . Go install couple more heater cores in your air supply,you might get even better results and don't forget to wait couple hours between coats,you might just come up with the ultimate paint job ever



Hahahahhahha Yup no pissing contest here. Hahahahhahha That's still some funny sh&t Hahahahhahha



It's good to know that you have sense of humor laughing at how you owned yourself.
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 08:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Elite said " Not wanting to get into a pissin contest," Hahahah now that's funny sh&t there. I would have never thought that after reading "ALL" of your posts. You sound like my neighbor who worked behind a paint supply counter for 25+ years. He thinks he knows everything there is to know about painting too. He painted 2 cars in his life both looked like crap and the clear coat was falling off of 1 less than 2 years later.

OP, You have some good information here unfortunately it's hard to figure out because Elite is littering this thread as he "TRIES" to prove he knows what he's talking about. Go to the link I sent you (autobody 101) You will find people there that have actually painted a car and know what their talking about (Like some of the people that posted in this thread) But you won't find people that just think they do like elite (Not wanting to get into a pissin contest, Hahhaha That's still funny sh&t) Hahhahahah



This comes from someone that was just questioning my ability to thoroughly read a post before taking pot shots at it.

I quote your useless post just so you can't go back and edit.

Now go back and pay close attention to my previous post. I quoted wicked's post agreeing with him. So keep talking out of your a$$,you're just making that hole deeper.I'm not even going to post pics of my work because you're just a troll . Go install couple more heater cores in your air supply,you might get even better results and don't forget to wait couple hours between coats,you might just come up with the ultimate paint job ever



Hahahahhahha Yup no pissing contest here. Hahahahhahha That's still some funny sh&t Hahahahhahha



My "no pissin contest" remark was aimed at Mr P, as in "I mean the man no disrespect", I have read many of his posts and he's a walking encyclopedia on many subjects, and this just one of those situations where people don't agree with each other. It wasn't intended for you to use against someone else.
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Painting questions... - 11/26/11 09:25 PM

Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 12:54 AM

"It's good to know that you have sense of humor laughing at how you owned yourself"

Wow Really ?????? HMMMMM.... You sure are a weird one.

You say you own a business ? I bet you have a lot of turnover with your mentality.

Let it go little man let it go..... Don't worry your dog will still think you're the toughest and smartest guy on the internet so just let it go little man let it go.
Posted By: GreenGlow

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 01:06 AM

You need to let it go too 73rrak. It's obvious from his posts that the Toyota guy is an idiot. You know what they say about arguing with an idiot on the internet don't you ? Don't make yourself look as retarded as the Toyota guy is.
Posted By: elitecustombody

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 01:36 AM

Quote:

You need to let it go too 73rrak. It's obvious from his posts that the Toyota guy is an idiot. You know what they say about arguing with an idiot on the internet don't you ? Don't make yourself look as retarded as the Toyota guy is.



Really? Since you went there and called me retarded, please show facts from my posts that I am in fact am an idiot.

Arguing? I wasn't arguing,but simply giving professional advice when Alaskan tool started taking shots at my expertise.Just simply trying to defend myself and my reputation.

Whether he knows it or not, I have actually been in body & paint industry for over 23 years,20 of which running my own shop.Have built cars that have won first place out of 6000 cars in my class 3 years in a row, cars that have been featured in magazines and on cover as well.

Do you think if I had no knowledge on how to properly mix and apply materials, would I be doing repairs on literally brand new cars that are still in plastic for local dealership?
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 02:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

You need to let it go too 73rrak. It's obvious from his posts that the Toyota guy is an idiot. You know what they say about arguing with an idiot on the internet don't you ? Don't make yourself look as retarded as the Toyota guy is.



Really? Since you went there and called me retarded, please show facts from my posts that I am in fact is an idiot.

Arguing? I wasn't arguing,but simply giving professional advice when Alaskan tool started taking shots at my expertise.Just simply trying to defend myself and my reputation.

Whether he knows it or not, I have actually been in body & paint industry for over 23 years,20 of which running my own shop.Have built cars that have won first place out of 6000 cars in my class 3 years in a row, cars that have been featured in magazines and on cover as well.

Do you think if I had no knowledge on how to properly mix and apply materials, would I be doing repairs on literally brand new cars that are still in plastic for local dealership?



Most of these guys are not realizing when you do this professionally, you have to meet the paint manufactures warranty specs and there is only one way to get certified and most of the ins. co's are looking for those certs these days.
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:20 AM

Finally this thread started producing good usable and accurate advice like it did before elite started flapping his lips. Thanks Greenglow


Mods please delete this thread I think it goes against everything Moparts stands for. Or at least the part after elite started posting.


P.S Maaco and Earl Scheib are certified to do insurance work too. Maybe someday elite will be able to paint as good as they do .....

I will not be be posting on this thread anymore so don't bother with a reply elite.. I guess one of us has to be mature enough to stop these childish posts. Later little man.
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 01:37 PM

Quote:

Finally this thread started producing good usable and accurate advice like it did before elite started flapping his lips. Thanks Greenglow


Mods please delete this thread I think it goes against everything Moparts stands for. Or at least the part after elite started posting.


P.S Maaco and Earl Scheib are certified to do insurance work too. Maybe someday elite will be able to paint as good as they do .....

I will not be be posting on this thread anymore so don't bother with a reply elite.. I guess one of us has to be mature enough to stop these childish posts. Later little man.



Never heard of a Maaco being on a DRP program, don't think one could pull it off either. just because you can drop off your car for ins work there doesn't mean they're certified to do it.
Posted By: AeroMonte

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 05:19 PM

Quote:

ok I can wash over epoxy but not bodywork? How do I get it clean in that stage(prep for primer)? I will get some of the Dupont 3901. Would I need an additional sealer over my epoxy paint(Zero Rust) or can I just go straight to color? Thanks for all the help...sorry for soooo many questions but that is how you learn, without too many mistakes.

Anyone ever heard of a shelf life for paint, even if it is kept in a temp controlled environment? Thanks



Use compressed air to blow the dust off before priming. You can use a towel to wipe the repair area as your blowing it off. No need to wash it at this point. If you have areas of bare metal around the repair, use a self etching primer on those spots. DuPont has a self etching primer in a spray can that works well. You don't need to completely cover the area to hiding, just a couple of light coats. Let that flash then spray epoxy primer over the entire repair area. Be sure to use a red scotch brite pad to rough up the area around the repair first so the primer will have something to bite into. Block and reprime as needed to your satisfaction. I've seen guys skip the sealer step but I don't recommend it. Paints now a days are very transparent and the proper shade of sealer are designed by the manufacturer to help achieve maximum color hiding with as little product as possible. A good uniform coat of sealer helps with uniform color throughout and keeps the solvents from attacking the old paint and primers. It's also a lot cheaper to find problem areas when the sealer is sprayed then when color is sprayed. As for shelf life, I use DuPont ChromaBase which is a non catalyzed basecoat. I've kept it for a couple of years on the shelf with no problem. If you use any catalyzed materiels, primer, basecoat, clears etc....there is no shelf life once catalyzed. Dump them as soon as your done spraying and clean your spray equipment good.
Every bodyman/painter has a different method of application based on years of trial and error. Nobody is absolutely right or wrong. Products change so fast these days that it's a never ending learning curve. If in doubt, spray an old fender first with some left over paint to finesse your technique.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 05:26 PM

This would have been a good thread but again there has to be someone to spoil it. To 73 and greenglow the both of you need to shut your yaps, you have no business disrespecting Elite. He has offered his professional advise to the OP, not for you to go on a bashing fest.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 05:46 PM

Too funny, tommy trotter gets his best results with Harbor Freight equipment. From October 16th:

"I bought one of the HF guns Like $50 for a full size gun and a detail gun and a couple different tips. I've painted 4 cars with it now and it still works great. I did buy a second gun just in case the one I was using took a crap on me while I was painting but it's still sitting in the package unused. I think it's just whatever works for you and the HF gun works for me. "

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...6872501&Wor
Posted By: AeroMonte

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 05:50 PM

Quote:

Too funny, tommy trotter gets his best results with Harbor Freight equipment. From October 16th:

"I bought one of the HF guns Like $50 for a full size gun and a detail gun and a couple different tips. I've painted 4 cars with it now and it still works great. I did buy a second gun just in case the one I was using took a crap on me while I was painting but it's still sitting in the package unused. I think it's just whatever works for you and the HF gun works for me. "

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...6872501&Wor



You can paint with a tray and roller from Home Depot also. It all depends on the desired results your looking for.
Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:39 PM

Quote:

This would have been a good thread but again there has to be someone to spoil it. To 73 and greenglow the both of you need to shut your yaps, you have no business disrespecting Elite. He has offered his professional advise to the OP, not for you to go on a bashing fest.



Both 73aark and GreenGlow joined the same day on May 13 2011 and both have the same @cableone.net. email provider.

BUSTED!
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:48 PM

That's right " It's not the gun that makes the painter it's the painter that makes the gun. When you know what your doing you can make a paint job look perfect with any gun ..... Hey thanks for the compliment !!!!!!!!
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:51 PM

Oh now the smart guys come on the thread. There's one more that you missed too .........
Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:52 PM

Quote:


I will not be be posting on this thread anymore so don't bother with a reply elite.. I guess one of us has to be mature enough to stop these childish posts. Later little man.



Promise made.
Promise broken.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 06:52 PM

time for banishment....
Posted By: 73rrak

Re: Painting questions... - 11/27/11 07:04 PM

Quote:

time for banishment....



Or beaten within an inch of my life with a wet noodle.....
Posted By: pauly v.100

Re: Painting questions... - 11/28/11 06:29 PM

I check out this post looking for an informative conversation and i end up listening to a bitchfight... nice!
Posted By: wicked

Re: Painting questions... - 11/28/11 07:47 PM

Quote:

Then I used the old heater core from the 73 Roadrunner I was painting with air lines from the regulator to the heater core then out of the heater core to the hose going to my paint gun.





The above statement is just some really bad advice, I wouldn't recommend installing a piece that's designed to work at 15 psi into a high pressure system, and a question of not "if" but "when" it lets loose will it leave you full of shrapnel.
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