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would you brake in a engine with a new six pack?

Posted By: cjs69mope

would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 05:23 PM

Hi I was wondering if i should do this or not , I am building a nice street 451 with stealth heads and comps 275hl cam .
It will have a new summit racing six pack kit going on it i know there will be tuning needed. Here is my question will the out of the box set up be OK to brake in a motor or should i use a 4 barrel set up ?
I guess i could by a cheep 383 intake to brake the motor in with one of my known good 750 hp carb but is that a waste of time ? Another problem is may have to machine the intake because the block is decked as are the heads to get close to 10-1 compression .
What is the general thoughts on this ? Or just try and use only the center carb and block off the end carbs?
would to rich of a air fuel be bad on a brake in ? or would to lean hurt it durring brake in ?
Thanks for your advice in advance .
Posted By: jon01

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 05:47 PM

I'd just use the known good carb setup on it. A 383 intake should be a cheap find.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 05:54 PM

I would not do it with the 6pk . If the heads were cut properly the intake should fit well enough for the break in.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 06:21 PM

what's the problem? Why would it be a bad idea? Just make sure your floats are set (have to do that w/ a 4bbl), then make sure your distrib is clocked right, fill the primary bowl up, turn the mixture screws in all the way then out 1.25 turns, turn the idle screw down (so the engine mantains about 2k) and let her rip. Once it's warm turn the idle up to 22-2400 set your timing in full around 36* (vac advance pluged) get your vacuum gauage out and tune for best signal. Once the 20 minutes are up, change the oil and go for a drive. You can leave the outboards un-hooked if you like, but they aren't going to open until your engine goes under "load"
As for cutting the block or heads, sure but make sure the intake will seal before you fire it. If you cut the heads a bunch you'll have to have the intake cut too. I had to have .030 taken off a brand new RPM once.
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 06:25 PM

using a known/used carb sounds like a good idea, but I didn't bother; just fired it up and ran it.

seemed to work; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofma0go-jJk



Dave

Oh and lean would be bad.....
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 06:36 PM

Quote:

what's the problem? Why would it be a bad idea? Just make sure your floats are set (have to do that w/ a 4bbl), then make sure your distrib is clocked right, fill the primary bowl up, turn the mixture screws in all the way then out 1.25 turns, turn the idle screw down (so the engine mantains about 2k) and let her rip. Once it's warm turn the idle up to 22-2400 set your timing in full around 36* (vac advance pluged) get your vacuum gauage out and tune for best signal. Once the 20 minutes are up, change the oil and go for a drive. You can leave the outboards un-hooked if you like, but they aren't going to open until your engine goes under "load"
As for cutting the block or heads, sure but make sure the intake will seal before you fire it. If you cut the heads a bunch you'll have to have the intake cut too. I had to have .030 taken off a brand new RPM once.


Yea that is what i was going to do but i was not sure .
I have to get the intake cut on the sixpack so i did not want to cut another 4 barrel one too .
the block was wacked .012 and heads .060 so i was using the old mopar formual {for every .010 off the deck then .012" needs to be removed from the intake side}
Well i come up with .086" off the intake , Not sure if that is total for one side or both .043 on each side =.o86 or .086 on each side?
Seams like alot ! not sure how to get this right . the first time .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 06:44 PM

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what's the problem? Why would it be a bad idea? Just make sure your floats are set (have to do that w/ a 4bbl), then make sure your distrib is clocked right, fill the primary bowl up, turn the mixture screws in all the way then out 1.25 turns, turn the idle screw down (so the engine mantains about 2k) and let her rip. Once it's warm turn the idle up to 22-2400 set your timing in full around 36* (vac advance pluged) get your vacuum gauage out and tune for best signal. Once the 20 minutes are up, change the oil and go for a drive. You can leave the outboards un-hooked if you like, but they aren't going to open until your engine goes under "load"
As for cutting the block or heads, sure but make sure the intake will seal before you fire it. If you cut the heads a bunch you'll have to have the intake cut too. I had to have .030 taken off a brand new RPM once.


Yea that is what i was going to do but i was not sure .
I have to get the intake cut on the sixpack so i did not want to cut another 4 barrel one too .
the block was wacked .012 and heads .060 so i was using the old mopar formual {for every .010 off the deck then .012" needs to be removed from the intake side}
Well i come up with .086" off the intake , Not sure if that is total for one side or both .043 on each side =.o86 or .086 on each side?
Seams like alot ! not sure how to get this right . the first time .



It would be .086 off each side , but you also have to take int oa ccount the .012 you had cut off the block , that's the same as cutting .012 more off the heads .

Normally the heads would be cut on the intake side so that the intake manifold itself would not have to be cut , I'll assume the head deck was only cut and they intake side of the head was not ?
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:00 PM

I was figuring in the .o12" off the block that gave me .072 total off the deck and heads.Multiply that by .012 = .o86" needs to come off the intake .
But is that going to work with just a vally pan gasket?
I did this on a 383 and used the felpro intake gaskets on both sides and the vally pan gasket . we wacked the intake .090 " not sure if i should of .Still don't think it is right because the intake might of went on with just the tin pan. At the time i was new to mopar engines and thought i had to use the paper gaskets because they came with the intake set .
Is there way to get an impression of where the intake sitts with grease and paper or cardboard ?
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:29 PM

Yes I think it would be good idea to use a known good carb first.

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:39 PM

Quote:

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.

O come on There is nothing like watching a brand new set of headers turn cherry red especialy when they are coated.
Posted By: west

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:40 PM

just run it,you are going to have to tune them anyway
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:40 PM

Quote:

I was figuring in the .o12" off the block that gave me .072 total off the deck and heads.Multiply that by .012 = .o86" needs to come off the intake .
But is that going to work with just a vally pan gasket?
I did this on a 383 and used the felpro intake gaskets on both sides and the vally pan gasket . we wacked the intake .090 " not sure if i should of .Still don't think it is right because the intake might of went on with just the tin pan. At the time i was new to mopar engines and thought i had to use the paper gaskets because they came with the intake set .
Is there way to get an impression of where the intake sitts with grease and paper or cardboard ?



I didn't do the math to check you. As far as the valley pan , if you want it to sit right you have to cut the valley end rails also though some people just force it into place. The same ratio is used on the end rails , .012 for every .010 off the block so at minimum the end rails should have .0144 , you need to decide about the heads cut amount if you want to do that.

I like to use the paper gaskets , helps insulate the intake from the rest of the engine heat wise and helps to seal the intake.

realize if you don't cut the heads and instead cut the intake that it is forever married to that block head combination. it may or may not , may not is more likely, fit on any other engine.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.

O come on There is nothing like watching a brand new set of headers turn cherry red especialy when they are coated.



Yup that happened to me with my new 6 pak motor running during break in. Then I read TTI instructions to use old headers for break in. Damn why didn't I read them first?
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.

O come on There is nothing like watching a brand new set of headers turn cherry red especialy when they are coated.



Yup that happened to me with my new 6 pak motor running during break in. Then I read TTI instructions to use old headers foor break in. Damn why didn't I read them first?



broke my 440-6 in w/ my el-cheapo headers that I stripped and used VHT paint on and they still look great.

Attached picture 6931248-mot2.jpg
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:45 PM

To me cutting the intake is an easy thing especially when the heads are already done .
I am fine with the intake being married to this motor that is why i want to only cut one intake and not two .
thank you your you answers i appreciate your experiance .
Cj.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:50 PM

Quote:

To me cutting the intake is an easy thing especially when the heads are already done .
I am fine with the intake being married to this motor that is why i want to only cut one intake and not two .
thank you your you answers i appreciate your experiance .
Cj.



So I guess that means that the intake side of the heads were not cut originally ? If not then cut the manifold, if you feel that getting it running on break in with the 6pk is not above your skill level then go for it .
Posted By: cjs69mope

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 07:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.

O come on There is nothing like watching a brand new set of headers turn cherry red especialy when they are coated.



Yup that happened to me with my new 6 pak motor running during break in. Then I read TTI instructions to use old headers foor break in. Damn why didn't I read them first?



broke my 440-6 in w/ my el-cheapo headers that I stripped and used VHT paint on and they still look great.


The cherry hot headers is a weird thing because i broke in my 493 with tti's and they did not get like that but i have a roller cam in that motor . and 850 deamon was running at about 11.5 a/f then HA HA.
On our 383 hydraulic cam motor it did turn cherry red i assume the timing was retarded and lean to cause that .
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 09:57 PM

if the carbs and system are all new, I would ----

put an electric fuel pump on it, set the float heights, set base timing, fill the bowls and light it.

if you were using unknown used carbs , different story
Posted By: 70runner

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/22/11 10:10 PM

I just broke-in my 440-6 on a test stand using new, but 10yr old repro carbs out of the box. Stealth heads, lunati 60303, stock manifolds, TTI 2.5. Only change to the carbs was #65 jets instead of #61 stock.

Youtube video

However, intake leak gradually degraded idle quality. Used paper gaskets on valley pan, but didn't seal paper to head/intake surface. Used permatex black to seal second time around. Running good. Just installed engine in 70RR couple days ago.

Attached picture 6931448-ltfront.jpg
Posted By: 383man

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/23/11 04:28 AM

Quote:

what's the problem? Why would it be a bad idea? Just make sure your floats are set (have to do that w/ a 4bbl), then make sure your distrib is clocked right, fill the primary bowl up, turn the mixture screws in all the way then out 1.25 turns, turn the idle screw down (so the engine mantains about 2k) and let her rip. Once it's warm turn the idle up to 22-2400 set your timing in full around 36* (vac advance pluged) get your vacuum gauage out and tune for best signal. Once the 20 minutes are up, change the oil and go for a drive. You can leave the outboards un-hooked if you like, but they aren't going to open until your engine goes under "load"
As for cutting the block or heads, sure but make sure the intake will seal before you fire it. If you cut the heads a bunch you'll have to have the intake cut too. I had to have .030 taken off a brand new RPM once.




I agree as I start new engines with new DP carbs all the time. Just make sure everyting is set right as you would do on a new eng anyway. Ron
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/23/11 01:35 PM

1st six-pack? You're gonna love it.
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 12:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Also use old headers to break in your new motor.

O come on There is nothing like watching a brand new set of headers turn cherry red especialy when they are coated.



Yup that happened to me with my new 6 pak motor running during break in. Then I read TTI instructions to use old headers foor break in. Damn why didn't I read them first?



broke my 440-6 in w/ my el-cheapo headers that I stripped and used VHT paint on and they still look great.


The cherry hot headers is a weird thing because i broke in my 493 with tti's and they did not get like that but i have a roller cam in that motor . and 850 deamon was running at about 11.5 a/f then HA HA.
On our 383 hydraulic cam motor it did turn cherry red i assume the timing was retarded and lean to cause that .






I've always broke in my engines, or customers engines, whether I've built them or not with the carbs intended for the engine, never "smoked" a set of fresh painted or plated headers, TTI's or others...even broke in 3 HEMIs with my custom made 6 pack induction systems, and TTI ceramic coated headers as well,...no issues, if you set the engine up right, and double check everything, you should be able to light it off instantly, and bring it up to a steady 2000 RPM for a 20-30 minute run, best to have the engine plumbed with a vac gauge, timing lite, tach, oil pressure gauge, also a hand held infared to check surface temps, I like to install a thermalcouple temporarly in the water sending unit, I don't like relying on dash gauges for break-in info

Mike

Attached picture 6933168-dayclonahemi6p.jpg
Posted By: Pyper70

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 01:08 AM

Quote:

1st six-pack? You're gonna love it.





I thought Dual Quads on an engine with 8000 miles was a handful....but a sick pak fresh on a motor....I dunno...

I plan on breaking my 505 in with the Performer RPM manifold and a single 750...then do my 500 miles and switch back to the existing setup now...

Good luck with your quest
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 01:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

1st six-pack? You're gonna love it.





I thought Dual Quads on an engine with 8000 miles was a handful....but a sick pak fresh on a motor....I dunno...

I plan on breaking my 505 in with the Performer RPM manifold and a single 750...then do my 500 miles and switch back to the existing setup now...

Good luck with your quest



?? I was a 6-pack virgin when I bought mine. I had zero problems with setting it up. Even with the new aluminum headed solid roller cam engine. I just guesstimated and it worked just fine. Lucky I guess. It flat out halls tail, the response is instant. And I have a stock, piece.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 01:59 AM

For the purpose of break-in a six pack is just a 2 barrel. The outboard carbs should not play a part.

Why is this an issue???
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 06:24 AM

Quote:

What is the general thoughts on this ?

You're not together yet & on iron OE heads I'd mill the heads' intake faces till the intake/head port interface is dead on w the thickness of intake gasket you plan to run so the intake is not married to that eng. But since the heads and the intake are special high dollar alum items if they are flat I would not mill them & I'd get custom thickness Cometic intakets to achieve perfect alignment so these high dollar pieces stay unmolested. No opinion on if should try it w the 6 pack, I prob would & get everything dead on & if it wouldn't fire off immed then I'd swap the intake/carb & regoop the cam at the same time. Do ya feel lucky? well do ya I'd have all the prep spot on. fuel delievery/spark working/timing ~10, 15 if wild cam/stat out/(3) helpers/shop fan/front jacked up (air pockets)/rear wheels just off ground & start in drive to load it/ read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com. You in drivers seat to monitor gauges/shout orders. Any issues/leaks shut it down clean/immediately/fix it & restart to 2500rpm. 1 helper adds trans fluid 1 helper turns dist to get 36 total (vac adv plugged) 1 helper checks for leaks up top 1 helper checks for leaks underneath
Posted By: mikemee1331

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 09:08 PM

Quote:

For the purpose of break-in a six pack is just a 2 barrel. The outboard carbs should not play a part.

Why is this an issue???

and with Yuck......... disconnect the outboards, wire the throttles closed and fire her up!
Posted By: 70sixpkrt

Re: would you brake in a engine with a new six pack? - 11/24/11 09:20 PM

I fired my new engine with my 6 pack and had no problems. Was able to fine tune the carbs at the same time.

Attached picture 6934480-100_0900.JPG
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