Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body

Posted By: craigtone

Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 07:00 PM

Hello! I have spend the day searching online for Magnum swaps, 727 vs. A518, and found the best threads on Moparts, so I joined! I ended up with a 1973 Charger a year ago through a swap of various vehicles. The car is in good shape with solid floors and a running 318/727. The engine is not original, so not worth keeping since the previous owner put in a ridiculous cam and 360 heads ... i.e. No low end!

My goal is a retro rod with MPFI, 4-wheel discs and lowered. If I want power later I can re-gear or add a Jeep 5.2L supercharger setup.

I recently parted-out my 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I kept the engine, engine wire harness, PCM, A/C parts. I was thinking of dropping this in the Charger since I already have the engine and all the wiring, etc. I am now looking at either a 727 or A518 and saw a mention of a way to get an A518 into a B-Body with only modifying the case ... anyone have a link?

I have heard the starter is on the opposite side on Jeep vs. Dodge Magnums. Curious if anyone has a Jeep Magnum in their B-Body and how you handled headers with starter opposite.

Any tips, thoughts, concerns, comments, etc.?

Attached picture 6900258-73se_s.jpg

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 07:23 PM

Quote:

Any tips, thoughts, concerns, comments, etc.?

welcome! I hope your sanity is not an issue as we have enough of that (on here) to deal w the way it is now. Yes you'll find the answers here and Googling moparts threads works for me

Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 07:57 PM

Well, I am looking at doing the same with a 5.7 hemi as opposed to a 5.2/5.9, but you already have the motor, so...

I don't see any issues with bolting the motor up, I'm pretty sure Schumacher sells mounts. I don't know about the 518 going in easy, I think at the very least you'll need some major trans x member surgery. And don't forget on the later Bs you have that extra cross member for the iso suspension, which might hamper things even more.

Mopar Action and MP teamed up to put out a complete FI swap kit for the magnum, and did a full write up across several issues. I would take a look at that and maybe get a few back copies. The project was called the "Savvy Savoy." I don't recall what they used for the trans.

In my opinion, four wheel discs are a waste. Most of the braking is done by the front rotors and even with 10 inch rear drum, if they are in good shape, you should be fine. I would recommend swapping to the newer manual master and upgrading to 11.75 unicast rotors (or rotorpros).

To lower the car, crank down the torsion bars a bit and get some de-arched leafs for the rear. Do it the right way.

Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 09:46 PM

I did the 5.9 magnum swap into a 65 b body.
but it came out of a durango.
the 5.2 is same dimensionally as well as mounts and oil pan.

you need the 360 LA oil pan and gasket set with pickup.

I used my old 727 since it was easier then figuring out the controler for the 518.

BUT since you are keeping the old ecu and stuff, I think you have to go all or find a manual ECU so it doesn't trip codes if you keep the old 727. plus you would have to notch it so you can keep the crank sensor.

you can use the old 318 mounts and a spacer if you want. or as someone else said shcumaker mounts, which is what I did.

I used the durango exahust manifolds.
they worked just fine and cleared everything.

no idea on the jeep thing.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 10:12 PM

It should be easy to get rear disks which, face it, look better unless you are using full wheelcovers! You should be able to do it with all OEM parts.
Try www.doctordiff.com for a kit.

Good luck,
R.

Posted By: wldtm

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/02/11 11:49 PM

I make a wiring harness to do this exact swap. It is pretty straight forward. I have helped with one swap, and the other one.

Look in the forsale section under Modern Mopar parts. Or I can add some tech assistance regarding wiring

Good luck, and cool project!

Posted By: volaredon

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 12:00 AM

the engine is the same whether it comes from a Jeep or a Dodge; the starter actually bolts TO the tranny not to the engine.

Posted By: ralphie361

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 02:01 AM

I did the EFI 5.2 in my Fury this spring with the help of wldtm and love it! I did it bargain basement with a parted out Dakota, and kept the 727. Used the stock 318 mounts, 360 car pan, 89 dodge hd truck 727 converter with 5.2 flex plate, notched bell housing. Ended up putting about 4000 miles on it this summer.

Attached picture 6900859-101_4708.JPG

Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 03:58 AM

I built a mild LA/Magnum hybrid 360, and an A500 for my 78 Fury (same as your 73 underneath). The trans went in with ease and only had to grind one casting rib off of the case and modify my existing crossmember. I'm using pressure switches from PATC, and a factory GM vacuum switch. The trans swap alone was WELL WORTH IT. It gets unreal gas mileage for what it is (well over 20mpg) once i set the Thermo-Quad up right, cruises 80+ mph with ease with 3.55s, and will fry the tires for as long as you want it to (3.9 converter and 2.74 first gear). I'll never run anything else behind a small block again.

Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 02:21 PM

Quote:

I make a wiring harness to do this exact swap. It is pretty straight forward. I have helped with one swap, and the other one.

Look in the forsale section under Modern Mopar parts. Or I can add some tech assistance regarding wiring

Good luck, and cool project!

I was looking at your ad in the for sale section, do you only do harnesses for 94-95 dakota/ram engines, or does it depend on what you can find? Can you give us a typical cost for this type of swap? Thanks

Posted By: roadrunninMark

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 02:34 PM

Welcome aboard, here is the link you are looking for to do the 518 mods:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=23678.0

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 02:52 PM

For the 518, you will want to talk with the folks at SMR Trans and purchase some of their upgrade parts to do it right. I built an A500 with all of their parts, and it wokrs awesome in my hotrod.

For EFI, if you get tired of trying to work out the factory set-up, I would suggest the FAST EZ efi....Love it.

Posted By: patrick

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 03:10 PM

nope, not crazy. I have a mag headed 318 in my 4000lb 5th ave with 3.55's and a 42RH (A500). very fun combo, as fast as an AWD 300C. mine's carbed and modded with a reground cam, eddie air gap, 600 carb, and headers. wish I had EFI on it, I have 2/3 the parts to do it, just not the time.

if you want some more gusto, take the cam, send it out to bullit cams, and have Tim put the HR259/316 lobe on both the intake and exhaust lobe, keeping the stock LCA. then get the hughes engines #1110 springs and their retainers. it'll make a ton more power, but still be mild enough to work with a factory ECU. a stock high stall lockup converter will work great with it.

Posted By: Montclaire

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 03:27 PM

Does the 500 have a smaller case than the 518? Does anyone sell new trans x-members for these swaps?

Posted By: 68FuryIIIColo

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 03:27 PM

Great Idea!!! I did the A518 conversion on my 65 Dodge D200. Since it's a truck there was no modifications to the floor of the truck at all. I am using the Superior transmission vacuum switch and a couple 44 and 50 psi TH 350 pressure switches for the LU/OD. I grabbed transmission lines from an a518 (3/8") as well as the detent cable and brackets. I put a Superior shift kit in as well.
Now for the fuel injection I'm doing a Holley throttle body controlled by a Megasquirt ECU. I could not go with a EFI from a Magnum motor because I have a 318 Poly in the truck with only about 68000 on it right now. So far with the A518 conversion I can get about 16-18 maximum on the highway. My engine runs at about 2100 at 70MPH with 4.10 gears in the Dana 60. It is well worth the investment! My project cost including fluid, clamps, hoses, and all the little crap was $575...nope...$455, I just sold my NP435 on Craigslist for $120. Good luck and have fun with your project!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 03:45 PM

Quote:

Does the 500 have a smaller case than the 518? Does anyone sell new trans x-members for these swaps?

The maincase is smaller but I want to say the OD is the same .

Posted By: patrick

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 05:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Does the 500 have a smaller case than the 518? Does anyone sell new trans x-members for these swaps?

The maincase is smaller but I want to say the OD is the same .

yup, the front case is the same as a 904, while the 518 is the same a 727, the OD/tailshaft is the same for both.

I built my bolt-in lower crossmember on my M out of 2x4 tubing and some 1/4" plate.

Posted By: wldtm

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/03/11 07:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I make a wiring harness to do this exact swap. It is pretty straight forward. I have helped with one swap, and the other one.

Look in the forsale section under Modern Mopar parts. Or I can add some tech assistance regarding wiring

Good luck, and cool project!

I was looking at your ad in the for sale section, do you only do harnesses for 94-95 dakota/ram engines, or does it depend on what you can find? Can you give us a typical cost for this type of swap? Thanks

the harness will fit most all magnum engines. Since it is not new, I use a modified dakota harness. then engine doesnt care what the harness is out of. I use the 94-95 dakota because of ease.

I have set up all ready to do for someone interested.

I have a harness and computer forsale I think for 300$
Fuel pump additional 130$
Regulator about 30-50$

The rest is finding mounts, oil pan, and misc hoses, fuel lines, fittings etc.

Ask ralphie361. He has a good idea I bet in what he had expenses in.

Thanks for inquiring.

Posted By: ralphie361

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/04/11 02:24 AM

It was a relatively economical swap, which was good because I didn't want to spend too much on a 4 door c body:) Besides the wiring, fuel pump and filter, there were only a few things that add up. I think I had about $100 in plumbing the fuel sytem, and another 100 in a pass thru speed sensor so I could keep my speedometer and cruise, but still send a signal to the pcm. I ended up putting a mopar performace pcm in it, but it was a $50 craigslist find. I had to buy a car 360 pan and pickup because the 5.2 magnum has the same pan rails as a 360, not a 318. All of my mounts worked from the 318, and I actually used the y pipe off of the Dakota donor truck because I am cheap:) I need to eventually have an exhaust bent because it hangs low. I purchased the dakota donor with a blown trans for $300 and got my money back when I scrapped the bare shell, so I only have $400-500 invested in the swap. Probably the best bang for the buck mod I have ever done!

Attached picture 6902562-101_4708.JPG

Posted By: patrick

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/04/11 12:42 PM

ralphie,

what did you do for the fuel pump/fuel system? inline pump?

wonder how I could do this with mine, since I have a mag headed LA 318, so I don't have the crank sensor mount location....

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/04/11 07:15 PM

The transmission locates the starter, not the engine. Since you're not going to be running a 4x4 jeep transmission, you will have the starter in the normal location.

The annoying part is the 73+ B body's have that isolated torsion bar crossmember. You will be able to get the transmission to fit under the crossmember in front of the isolated torsion bar crossmember, the the iso-crossmember goes UNDER the transmission. I had talked to a guy who put a 518 into his 74 charger and he said to get his transmission to fit over top of the isolated torsion bar crossmember, he had to hack out much of the crossmember framing in front of the iso-crossmember to get it to fit. Kinda hard to explain but if you look under your car you will see what I mean. Now if you remove the isolated torsion bar crossmember for good, like I describe in this thread linked, you should be able to get the 518 to fit with just minor mods to the case. Either way your transmission mount will need to be custom fabbed by you.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=

Posted By: ralphie361

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 04:19 AM

I used the mopar universal inline pump and a ls1 corvette fuel filter/regulator. I mounted it on the back framerail, no room for dual exh, but just a short return line to an old vapor line on the tank and a high pressure line to the rail. As far as the crank sensor, youre right, but you could probably fab a mount if you could measure off of an existing magnum block. I am not sure if there is a "number one" position on the flex plate trigger or not, because if there isn't you could mount the crank sensor low by the inspection cover, but getting it in the right position would probably be a nightmare. I've got a magnum v6 in the garage I could take some pics or measurements off of if you want to make a bracket.

Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 05:22 AM

I didn't have to touch my torsion bar crossmember

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 12:53 PM

If you don't have a trans bought yet - personally I'd go with an electronic A500, such as a 44RE. The trans will be well within the torque output of the engine, and the lower first gear will help getting the heavy car rolling.

Posted By: ralphie361

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 01:17 PM

That would be nice, it would make it necessary to run an obdII harness to run the trans if you stay with factory stuff though. Not a huge deal, but the obd1 and 46rh is a lot less wiring for simplicity sake. obdII would possibly have more tuning capabilities down the road, but I dont think the 44re has a provision for a mechanical speedometer if he wants keep it. He probably needs to decide what are the most important things he wants out of the conversion.

Posted By: craigtone

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 02:47 PM

Quote:

He probably needs to decide what are the most important things he wants out of the conversion.

The most important thing is to keep it simple! Not only for ease of install, but ease of troubleshooting and maintenance down the road. Hence wanting to stick with the 46RH so my 1995 Jeep computer and harness work as-is without hacking or modification.

Thanks for all the replies! Lots of good tech info here! It looks like I will need a good rebuilt A518, I will also contact a custom trans shop to get the right TC and rear gear ratio for my needs, external fuel pump, and I am going to try to use B-Body LA full length headers to hook to my already installed dual exhaust.

As for wiring, I still have the entire Jeep engine/trans harness with battery post and under hood fusebox. The nice thing about the Jeep harness is that the fuel pump fuse and relay is in the under hood fusebox. All engine (and starter) fuses and relays are located there along with a heavy lug that I can attach an 8 or 10-gauge feed wire to feed the internal stock B-body fuse block. Only catch is I need to move the battery to the passenger side to fit the harness, but not a prob since I plan to weld in the Jeep PCM, A/C dryer and fuse box mounts to the Charger inner fenders anyway.

The plan this weekend is to get the car in the garage and up on jack stands so I can start crawling underneath to assess the crossmember situation and start taking measurements. I'll keep this thread updated as the project evolves with pics and what I find out!

Posted By: ralphie361

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 03:15 PM

Cool, keep us posted, I wouldn't mind adding the 46rh to my car eventually so I can upgrade the 2.76 rear and actually have something off the line!

Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 03:39 PM

Quote:

That would be nice, it would make it necessary to run an obdII harness to run the trans if you stay with factory stuff though. Not a huge deal, but the obd1 and 46rh is a lot less wiring for simplicity sake. obdII would possibly have more tuning capabilities down the road, but I dont think the 44re has a provision for a mechanical speedometer if he wants keep it. He probably needs to decide what are the most important things he wants out of the conversion.

I thought the 95 models were electronic trans; thats why I selected the 44RE. (44RE - 96-newer) So he would want a 42RH, probably one of the earlier one, for the speedo hookup. I'm just trying to get him into a trans with the low gearset to help get the car rolling without having to put more rear gear in it.

Posted By: craigtone

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/05/11 11:18 PM

Quote:

I thought the 95 models were electronic trans; thats why I selected the 44RE. (44RE - 96-newer) So he would want a 42RH, probably one of the earlier one, for the speedo hookup. I'm just trying to get him into a trans with the low gearset to help get the car rolling without having to put more rear gear in it.

I've got granny 2.76's now ... so I WILL be changing gears regardless!

Posted By: MoPar Jamie

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/06/11 07:00 AM

On the crank sensor issue I have notched a couple '91 cases for a '93 Dakota. Not too hard with a die grinder.

Posted By: craigtone

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/06/11 06:20 PM

Quote:

On the crank sensor issue I have notched a couple '91 cases for a '93 Dakota. Not too hard with a die grinder.

I shouldn't have to notch anything if I use a 1995 46RH, right? If I keep my 727 I would need to, but I want OD!

Posted By: patrick

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/07/11 03:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That would be nice, it would make it necessary to run an obdII harness to run the trans if you stay with factory stuff though. Not a huge deal, but the obd1 and 46rh is a lot less wiring for simplicity sake. obdII would possibly have more tuning capabilities down the road, but I dont think the 44re has a provision for a mechanical speedometer if he wants keep it. He probably needs to decide what are the most important things he wants out of the conversion.

I thought the 95 models were electronic trans; thats why I selected the 44RE. (44RE - 96-newer) So he would want a 42RH, probably one of the earlier one, for the speedo hookup. I'm just trying to get him into a trans with the low gearset to help get the car rolling without having to put more rear gear in it.

true, IIRC grand cherokees were the first to roll out the RE's in either '94 or 95...

Posted By: MoPar Jamie

Re: Am I Crazy? 5.2L/A518 -> B-Body - 11/08/11 06:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

On the crank sensor issue I have notched a couple '91 cases for a '93 Dakota. Not too hard with a die grinder.

I shouldn't have to notch anything if I use a 1995 46RH, right? If I keep my 727 I would need to, but I want OD!

Nope just bolt it in and go. '92 318s (and '93 360s) were Magnums and were notched from then on up for the crank sensor. So yeah your '95 tranny should be fine.

For really wierdness there ARE notched 904/998s I have one in my '95 Van and I know of a '98 that has one as well.