Moparts
727 kickdown band, change in car?
Posted By: HotRodDave
727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 12:20 AM
I have heard this can be done but I am strugling, got the old one out ok but can't get the new one in
Any tips? I do have the flex band.
I have always pulled the trans but a Durango is kinda a pain, thought I would give this a try for once
Posted By: TN_Michael
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 12:30 AM
Posted By: 383man
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 12:33 AM
The only kind I ever saw that you can change in the car is the two piece slip in bands. You have to cut the old band to get it out and then the two piece band slips around the drum and then you put the other end on and hook it up. I dont care for the slip in bands myself. I would take it out and do it right if it were mine. Ron
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 12:53 AM
My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 01:15 AM
IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 01:18 AM
Quote:
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
I totally agree and he's a newbie too
Posted By: TN_Michael
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 02:02 AM
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Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
I totally agree and he's a newbie too
Being a newbie has nothing to do with it. What matters is doing the job right and to not take short cuts. It is not a place to short cut. Knowledge & experience are king.
Posted By: bonefish
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 02:10 AM
it will go.you just got to keep wigglin and pushin on the drum and the band at the same time and all of a sudden it will slip right in like butter,but it can be frustrating.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 02:19 AM
you have pm.... no need to get the self rightous defenders of the written procedures up in arms.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 04:50 AM
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IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
The old band was not "toasted" just worn till there was almost no adjustment left, no metal to metal contact, I am replaceing it as a precaution, drum looks great. I have lots of experiance with thease trannys, could build one blindfolded if it was on a bench, I have built tons of thease trannys, just never tried to stick a band in with the trans in the car. The opurtunity presented itself, I caught a problem before it was a problem, so I thought I would give it a try.
Posted By: 68_CONV_300
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 05:07 AM
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IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
this from the guy who cant do a simple google search for ATF ... 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 05:58 AM
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you have pm.... no need to get the self righteous defenders of the written procedures up in arms.
If it's possible I'd like to know how , the fact that he got it out means there is enough room and it should go back in as easy as it came out. Personally I've never tried it and the times I have had a trans out and apart it never appeared like there was enough room to do it?
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 01:46 PM
I've done it. maybe 3 or 4 times in the past 25 years.
And for the exact same reason as well - the 4wd Durango/Dakotas trucks that are one of the toughest trans to get out.
The way I look at it, if the trans is solid and theres no issues with the ft drum why pull the trans. It's less headache and saves the customer money.
That said, to get it in I think you have to hold your mouth right and it will go.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 03:51 PM
Quote:
My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 03:53 PM
Quote:
I've done it. maybe 3 or 4 times in the past 25 years.
And for the exact same reason as well - the 4wd Durango/Dakotas trucks that are one of the toughest trans to get out.
The way I look at it, if the trans is solid and theres no issues with the ft drum why pull the trans. It's less headache and saves the customer money.
That said, to get it in I think you have to hold your mouth right and it will go.
I tried like crazy to do it and it wouldnt work for me.
I dont know what you're doing to accomplish it. the lugs on teh ends of the band made it impossible for me.
And yes they are an absolute nightmare to remove and a lot heavier than one would think. How do I know? I dropped one on myself doing it on a set of jackstands.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 03:53 PM
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My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
Why is it everytime I see you post your wrong?
As Bill stated above it can be done, not easy but it can be done.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 04:22 PM
Complete change of plans, I just had a guy come in with another durango needing a 5.9 engine, I am pulling my engine and selling it to him, then re-building a spare 44RE I have in the corner and a 5.2 to match. I will have a complete rebuilt powertrain in my 240,000 Durango and hopefully get better than 14mpg. I will re-build the 46RE and sit it on the shelf till a needarises for it.
PS My tech who was off yesterday just got it to slide in in 5 minutes
still gonna pull it all out.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 04:48 PM
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My own personal car. Just figured that since I had heard so many times over the years it was possible I thought I would give it a try, if it won't go well no biggie, trans would have had to come out any how. Old band came out real easy but new one don't seem to want to go more than 1/2 way around. Just figured if it was easy as I had heard it would save me about 6 hours, trans was shifting fine just noticed during a routine service the band was near the end of the adjustment. VB come out in about 5 minutes with the pan off already, band strut in 2 minutes why not give it a try right. Not trying to "do it the wrong way", doing it the wrong way would be to pretend I didn't see nothin. Never heard of a 2 piece band, that sounds like the wrong way right there.
Why the moparts people getin their panties all in a wad lately over everything? If it won't work it won't work, why not just say "hey I tried it and it won't work"? Or if you never personaly tried it just sit back and listen?
haha
No, it wont work, and no I dont blame you at all for trying.
It's a complete pain in the ass to remove a 46re. I hate them which is why I converted to a 727.
You'll have to unbolt it and pull the front pump.
Why is it everytime I see you post your wrong?
As Bill stated above it can be done, not easy but it can be done.
I dunno, maybe you're just a big tool with a chip on his shoulder who only sees what you want? 
Yeah, I think so. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one. 
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 04:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
IF you toasted the band .. the drum is probably hurt tooo ..... the trans has got to come out ..
this from the guy who cant do a simple google search for ATF ...
THIS from a asshat newbie ...
EVERY topic on any internet site is "searchable".... and if we did just that ... there would be NO NEED for any type of forums.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 05:14 PM
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Yeah, I think so. In fact, I'm pretty sure I'm right on that one.
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PS My tech who was off yesterday just got it to slide in in 5 minutes still gonna pull it all out.
Wrong again .... 
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/18/11 09:47 PM
This has been discussed before; after a previous can/can't discussion I went out to the shop and tried it on a fully assembled 727 on the bench....ain't no friggin way that band was coming out regardless of what some said they had done.
Then it dawned on me, some bands might be different. That's the advantage of having shelves full of parts, a quick check of the new/used flex bands I had showed .080" difference in the thickness of the band anchor ends. (widest was .630", narrowest was .550") Factor in the probable difference in case dimensions and the correct answer is....some can, some can't.
I only had 5-6 bands to compare, maybe there's an even bigger difference when comparing all the various brands.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/19/11 03:58 AM
Funnny you mention that, I think that is why I had trouble, the original was .580 and almost fell out and the new one was .608 took some doin to get in. One advantage of the trans in the car VS bench might be the guts hanging down opening up that clearance instead of hanging down takeing up the clearance.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/19/11 05:19 AM
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/19/11 04:12 PM
I am gonna asume that was not meant to be a crude joke Doc so here is the answer, yes there is clearance in the moveing parts and even with brand ne parts in the trans there is still clearance and it may only be a few thou but it could mean the differance in the band going in or not.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/19/11 08:44 PM
The main obstacle to get around is the front drum and even a loose bushing is only gonna let it hang a few thousandths but that might make the difference.
Posted By: dOrk !
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 10/19/11 10:54 PM
Dave ...NO JOKE intended. But hanging-down? ... I can remember doing a couple of trans way--back when that had the band come loose and spun-around in the case. It did not RUIN the case ... but it did dig-it-up inside.
Posted By: BBR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/29/15 06:10 AM
Resurrecting an old, old thread....
My need to do this very thing has arisen.
98 Durango, 5.2L 44re.
Front band anchor cracked and bent. Trans lost 2nd. I have the old band out, but wanted some pointers on wiggling the new one back in.
Do you snake it in up by the drum, or do you snake it around the rotator farther back then wiggle it forward to the drum?
Any input would be appreciated!
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/29/15 06:10 PM
44re is a 904 right , I thought there was more room in there ?
Did you compare lug thickness between the new and old ?
Posted By: BBR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/29/15 06:23 PM
Yes, a 44re is a 904 based trans.
New band is stuck at fedex because of weather, so I have not been able to compare the two.
If I could have gotten the band past the lip (on top) at the sun shell I think it would have slipped back and came out no prob. Since the adjuster lug was bent and broken, I just pulled it the rest of the way off with some vice grips and then pulled the band out.
It's pretty tight in there up by the drum.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/29/15 08:01 PM
The original subject of this thread was the 727. Keep in mind that the 904-based trans has two different width bands, 1.400" wide and 1.600" wide...the RE would have the wider band which extends further forward and makes it harder to remove/install in situ and, again, depends on the thickness of the band at the tang. (original might be thinner than replacement)
Posted By: BBR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/30/15 05:32 AM
Looks like it might be a no-go in a 44re. After A LOT of finagling, I got the band halfway around. However, I cannot get it to go any further.
I think it is hitting something on the case. If I could somehow fish it around the drum it *might* be possible, but my patience for the day is gone.
Posted By: Polarapete
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/30/15 06:45 AM
I once did an engine swap in a '68 Mustang and put a 351 Windsor in place of the 302. It had a C4 Automatic that we re-used (after rebuilding it) and one of the old parts we re-used was the 2nd gear band. It broke on the first test drive. Evidently it was a fairly common problem and I was able to remove the broken band and pass a new one around the drum and anchor it in place. That is the only transmission that I know of that would allow that, but I have never had to do that with any other.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 727 kickdown band, change in car? - 12/30/15 08:06 PM
Looks like it might be a no-go in a 44re. After A LOT of finagling, I got the band halfway around. However, I cannot get it to go any further.
I think it is hitting something on the case. If I could somehow fish it around the drum it *might* be possible, but my patience for the day is gone.
Did you try it further back ?
You might be able to wrap a thin sheet of sheet metal over the lugs that stick up past the sun shell so you can slide the band over them ?
why dont you try to do the job right instead of hacking it? Is this a customers car? 