Moparts

anyone align front end themselves

Posted By: president61

anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 05:22 AM

WONDERING IF THIS COULD BE DONE WITHOUT TAKING CAR TO AN ALIGNMENT SHOP
Posted By: NTOLERANCE

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 05:43 AM

Youll never get it dead on at home.

I have used a level to set camber, and then used a tape measure to set toe, but setting the caster setting (vertical tilt of the centerline of the ball joints) is nearly impossible. Camber and caster are adjusted with the same components (eccentrics on the upper control arm pivots) When you change one you change the other. The way to set them both is to make the needed adjustments for each at the same time. Tough to do on your garage floor. Could be done, but pretty tough.

Caster and camber are measure in degrees of tilt. they make level type camber gages, but not for caster (that I know of)

Toe is a piece of cake, its measure (usually) in inches of toe in or toe out, depending on the specs.

Caster being out of spec wont cause your tires to wear, but it will cause many handling issues, such as puling to one side, poor returnability of the steering wheel to center, and instability a higher speeds.

The needed tools to set camber and caster at home would far outweigh the cost of an alignment done at a shop.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 05:43 AM

Getting toe & camber close isn't to difficult, caster is quite a bit tougher...
Posted By: 68LAR

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 02:37 PM

I use an angle finder. Find a level area for the car. Turn the steering wheel to the right about 1 to 1 1/4 turns, noteing where the spokes of the steering wheel are. You need to rotate the steering wheel to the same location but in the opposite direction later on. Once you turn the wheel to the right, using the angle finder find a flat spot on the wheel on the driverside of the car. Read and write down the angle holding the angle finder vertically. Now rotate the steering wheel to the left the same amount as you did for the first reading and take the same reading from the passengerside wheel. This will be your caster readings. Your passenger side should have about 1/2* more than the driverside. If adjustments need to be made, use the rear excentric to move the wheel in or out.
For camber, straighten the steering wheel and
take the readings from the same flat area used for the caster reading. Should be 0* to 1/2* + -.
Use the front excentric for this adjustment.
Find a couple of straight edges long enough to reach past the front tires fore and aft.(maybe 4" or so). Find 4 identical purches about 4" tall. I used Plastic wire spools. Place one at the front and rear of each wheel. Place the straight edge on top of the purches. Find a way to hold the straight edge in place and measure front and rear of tires. This will be your toe setting. Shoot for about 1/16-1/8" toe in. Make adjustments from one side and count the number of revolutions to get the right reading. Now divide that number by 2 and back off the side you adjusted and tighten the clamps. Go to the other side and revolve the same number and tighten the clamps. This will center you steering wheel. This is the way I do it and it works for me.
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 03:15 PM

Google DIY alignment and read all 419,000 hits. Some are actually quite good. Some are astonishingly bad. Bottom line is you can get it close enough to drive it to someone that can do it right. The problem is finding someone who knows how or is willing to do an old Mopar. Alot of young frontend techs think if it isn't preprogrammed in their machine it can't be done. If so then keep looking until you find a tech that is older than your car and he will know how to do it.

If you are going to try to do it yourself, buy one of these.
http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/item.asp?id=1074&catid=5
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 03:37 PM

It's not hard at all with a cheap alignment guage. I've found lately it's not just old cars they can't get right, many of these guys doing alignments don't have any understanding of the angles and what they can do to help or hurt driveability.
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 03:39 PM

I did some alignments when I turned wrenches back in the late 70s. I would cringe when a Mopar or Ford for that matter would come in. They both used similar eccentric type adjustments. The trouble is keeping one eccentric from moving when you have to loosen both to make certain adjustments. Its been over 30 years since I had to do it but I remember them being a nightmare. Least for me. It was one of the few things GM had going for them IMHO. Just loosen the UCA mounts and install or remove the right combination of shims and re tighten. Piece of cake
Posted By: moper

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 04:32 PM

I do. Anyone that thinks it can't eitehr doesnt understand how it all works, or hasn't tried hard enough. It isnt easy, but anything can be lined up at home. They do make some easier tools now. Very few shops now even know how to do a proper alignment on a rear wheel drive without struts or 4wd. Ask a circle track guy who does their alignments...
Posted By: Magnum

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 07:36 PM

I've tried a few. Got some surprisingly close after comparing the set up on a real alignment rack.

Some I thought were close and were WAY off when on the rack.

Moral of the story. Center the steering wheel. Make your tie rod assemblies the same length. Base line the toe at home. Let the lasers to the rest.
Posted By: Clair_Davis

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 09:44 PM

I've been doing my own for several years now, I got tired of paying $50-100 for some monkey to do a halfa$$ed job and tell me that's as good as they can get it because it's old. Plus, I just wanted to learn how my suspension worked, and needed the ability to refine things as I saw fit. I spent about $100-150 for the tools (caster/camber gage and toe gage) and some short ramps and shims to level the car on my driveway. I've more than paid for the parts now, and can tweak to my heart's desire. Just don't expect it to be a fast procedure, especially on an A-body. I probably spend 2-3 hours getting the front end where I want it, starting from scratch.

Clair
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/06/08 10:08 PM

Quote:

I do. Anyone that thinks it can't eitehr doesnt understand how it all works, or hasn't tried hard enough. It isnt easy, but anything can be lined up at home. They do make some easier tools now. Very few shops now even know how to do a proper alignment on a rear wheel drive without struts or 4wd. Ask a circle track guy who does their alignments...




That was probably the issue back then. We had a good front-end machine. State-of-the-art (for its time)Hunter. We were just plagued with crappy hand tools. I remember it seeming like I needed 3 hands to make some of the adjustments
Posted By: 375inStroke

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 12:51 AM

Monkeys and their acceptance of loose tolerances has me doing my own. A carpenter's square and a tape measure is all that's needed. 1/4" in at the top of a 15" wheel is 1deg negative camber. Turning the tires left and then right, and comparing the camber change will let you check the caster. Most want the most they can get, but if you want the exact number, there are formulas on the net. My cars drive straight, don't wander, and the tires don't wear unevenly.
Posted By: Exit1965

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 01:51 AM

I used one of these.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1934/Caster_Camber_Gauges

I did it in about 3 hours, some of which was spent finding some vinyl tiles to use as turn plates (masonite soaked up the grease..).

It's not hard. It was my first alignment, and when I drove the car I was surprised (and proud) that it went straight and felt good. I dont put enough miles on it to notice tire wear, but it measured to spec so that's good enough for me.

For toe, I know I bought the harbor freight gauge, and i knew I tried to use it, but in the end I dont remember if I used it, or used a magnetic laser level and some tape measures..
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 05:32 AM

Quote:

I used one of these.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1934/Caster_Camber_Gauges





That's the tool that I have. Also, another Moparts member published this alignment technique some time back and it works well these days.

Start with the ride height, then set the front cam all the way out and the rear cam all the way in. Then bring the rear cam out until the camber is in spec. This is the maximum caster that you can get with this car. Then set the toe.

I do have a change to ride height that I like. The factory used a cumbersome method of measuring two places to the floor and taking the difference. I like about an inch between the LCA bumper and frame. I actually measure from the frame to the LCA (not the bumper) and make both sides equal.
Posted By: denfireguy

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 12:41 PM

Quote:



Start with the ride height,




This is the key. If you want to weed out alignment guys who dont know Mopars or torsion bars, ask them what the first step is (besides putting the car on the rack). If they answer anything besides set the ride height, go somewhere else.
On the other hand, doing it yourself is an exercise in patience. I have gotten very close after totally rebuilding the front end. Then I took it around to alignment shops and asked the magic question. I encouraged them to look it up before answering. Beleive it or not, a kid at the local Pep Boys store answered off the top of his head. And he got my alignment business.
Craig
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 03:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Start with the ride height,




This is the key. If you want to weed out alignment guys who dont know Mopars or torsion bars, ask them what the first step is (besides putting the car on the rack). If they answer anything besides set the ride height, go somewhere else.
On the other hand, doing it yourself is an exercise in patience. I have gotten very close after totally rebuilding the front end. Then I took it around to alignment shops and asked the magic question. I encouraged them to look it up before answering. Beleive it or not, a kid at the local Pep Boys store answered off the top of his head. And he got my alignment business.
Craig




So true. I even had a guy at a local shop argue with about whether adjusting ride height was part of the alignment procedure........
Posted By: Scott Carl

Re: anyone align front end themselves - 10/07/08 09:38 PM

Quote:

I used one of these.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/1934/Caster_Camber_Gauges

I did it in about 3 hours, some of which was spent finding some vinyl tiles to use as turn plates (masonite soaked up the grease..).

It's not hard. It was my first alignment, and when I drove the car I was surprised (and proud) that it went straight and felt good. I dont put enough miles on it to notice tire wear, but it measured to spec so that's good enough for me.

For toe, I know I bought the harbor freight gauge, and i knew I tried to use it, but in the end I dont remember if I used it, or used a magnetic laser level and some tape measures..




I almost bypassed this thread because of the nightmares I encountered in the past. But I was in fact an impatient kid then and after reading all the posts, I might just have to try it myself again. Thanks all, especially Exit1965 and Jim Lusk, for renewed inspiration!!
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