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UPDATE 9-9-11 Need help trying to prime the oil system.

Posted By: VOABIRD

UPDATE 9-9-11 Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:19 PM

I posted yesterday that my 440 lost oil pressure after an oil change and had to be towed home. At the advise of people on this forum I have removed the distributor and inserted a 5/16" tool to operate the oil pump. I am turning the shaft counter clockwise and feeling some resistance. I have the valve covers off and I can hear the oil gurgling and hissing coming from what sounds like under the intake manifold. Watching the oil gauge it doesn't appear to move or maybe just slightly.
Has anyone done this that can tell me if the gurgling and hissing is a normal sound?

Thanks

Attached picture 6812175-IMAG0312.jpg
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:22 PM

Sounds to me like there is air in the pick-up tube and the pump is struggling to fill it with oil.
Did you pre-lube the new oild filter when you did the change?
You might want to pull the filter and see if its filling.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:23 PM

Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:26 PM

Quote:

Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working?



Is the key on? the gauge is electrical, it doesn't work without power... Could be plenty of other things but gotta start with the ez stuff..
Posted By: VOABIRD

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes that's normal...you sure the gauge is working?



Is the key on? the gauge is electrical, it doesn't work without power... Could be plenty of other things but gotta start with the ez stuff..



Thanks, yes the key is on and the gauge appears to and has worked fine. I did ground the sender wire and it pegged the gauge.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:36 PM

Put a mech gauge on it .... THEN check it with a priming rod.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:38 PM

You have an average to fair amt of drag on the drill right? W the valve covers off turn the timing marks 2 TDC #6 & (re) prime & see if the pass valve train is oiling then turn the crank 450 deg (1&1/4 turns) (rotor at #8) & prime & see if dr side oils.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:38 PM

Gurgling noise could be normal or could indicate an internal leak.... What was going on with the car prior to loosing oil pressure?

Are you turning the oil drive with a drill or a speed wrench? Speed wrench won't create much pressure... Drill you should be able to get good movement out of the gauge...
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:40 PM

You state "I have the valve covers off"---I assume there is no oil reaching the heads--you might try rotating the crank a quarter turn each side of top dead center and spinning the pump again...
Posted By: therocks

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:47 PM

Actually the pump should drag the drill down pretty good.If you are using anything less than a decent 1/2 inch drill it probally wont turn if oiling properly.When I prime my 440 it darn near twists my old 1/2 inch drill from my hands.My kids 62 413 does the same.Rocky
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:47 PM

Very little resistance? Check all of your rocker arms to make sure you didn't spit a lifter out. There are only so many things that cause a sudden loss of oil pressure while running.

1) twisted tang on intermediate shaft (isn't that)
2) oil filter rupture (isn't that)
3) cracked pickup tube (probably not, I've seen two of these fail in my entire life)
4) pushrod/rocker failure and loss of lifter (???)
Posted By: VOABIRD

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 10:52 PM

The lifters and push rods appear to be OK, is there something specific I should really be looking at? Since trying to prime the oil system I have noticed the lifters seem to have pumped back up. I am using a cordless drill maybe I will use a 1/2" corded drill and see what happens.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 11:19 PM

Quote:

Actually the pump should drag the drill down pretty good.If you are using anything less than a decent 1/2 inch drill it probally wont turn if oiling properly.When I prime my 440 it darn near twists my old 1/2 inch drill from my hands.My kids 62 413 does the same.Rocky



Oh I never said it was gonna spin it easily, it takes a good drill & you need to be holding it solidly or it will rip it outta your hands.. But if your braced & ready you can develop good pressure...
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 11:24 PM

Quote:

Very little resistance? Check all of your rocker arms to make sure you didn't spit a lifter out. There are only so many things that cause a sudden loss of oil pressure while running.

1) twisted tang on intermediate shaft (isn't that)
2) oil filter rupture (isn't that)
3) cracked pickup tube (probably not, I've seen two of these fail in my entire life)
4) pushrod/rocker failure and loss of lifter (???)



5. Collapsed oil filter.
Posted By: VOABIRD

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 11:25 PM

Quote:

Gurgling noise could be normal or could indicate an internal leak.... What was going on with the car prior to loosing oil pressure?

My engine has always run perfect, I decided to change the oil and did not fill the filter. I had driven the car about 4 miles when I noticed there was no oil pressure. When I checked the filter it didn't have much oil in it. The engine was full of oil.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/05/11 11:34 PM

Quote:

The lifters and push rods appear to be OK, is there something specific I should really be looking at? Since trying to prime the oil system I have noticed the lifters seem to have pumped back up. I am using a cordless drill maybe I will use a 1/2" corded drill and see what happens.



....to a 1/2 corded drill.
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. - 09/06/11 01:34 AM

Quote:

I posted yesterday that my 440 lost oil pressure after an oil change and had to be towed home. At the advise of people on this forum I have removed the distributor and inserted a 5/16" tool to operate the oil pump. I am turning the shaft counter clockwise and feeling some resistance. I have the valve covers off and I can hear the oil gurgling and hissing coming from what sounds like under the intake manifold. Watching the oil gauge it doesn't appear to move or maybe just slightly.
Has anyone done this that can tell me if the gurgling and hissing is a normal sound?

Thanks


\
When we rebuilt my dads 383 several years ago the first oil change saw no oil, it primed after several tries, and then the second oil change the same thing - this time it never primed...

It was the Mopar Oil pump - the dealer we got it from ( mopar performance ) took it back after we showed them excessive clearance in the pump to cover.

We got another pump and never had another issue.
Posted By: VOABIRD

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 05:57 PM

I used a 1/2" reversible drill and I still don't feel much resistance in the oil pump. I pulled the oil pump off and it looks good, checked the relief valve and it is smooth and free. I will put everything back together and let you know what happens. I'm not very hopeful.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 06:06 PM

Did you pack the pump with vaseline before reinstalling it. That helps prime the pump.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 06:08 PM

Quote:

I used a 1/2" reversible drill and I still don't feel much resistance in the oil pump. I pulled the oil pump off and it looks good, checked the relief valve and it is smooth and free. I will put everything back together and let you know what happens. I'm not very hopeful.



What oil filter do you have on it ? Put some grease inside the pump to help with initial prime.
Posted By: VOABIRD

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 06:41 PM

I'm getting oil to move through the engine but I hear gurgling and hissing under the intake manifold while priming and it never really builds up much pressure. the gauge does not register any pressure either. I have a new Mopar filter on and threw the Fram I had on it away when the problem occurred away.
Posted By: stumpy

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 07:22 PM

Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan to see where the noises are coming from.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 07:30 PM

Quote:

Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan

X 2, time 2 dig further
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Need help trying to prime the oil system. Update - 09/06/11 07:33 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Sounds like you need to pull the intake and valley pan

X 2, time 2 dig further



X3
Posted By: VOABIRD

UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 - 09/09/11 09:26 PM

Good news. I could not build any oil pressure when I tried priming the engine with a drill through the distribuitor. I kept hearing gurgling and hissing under the intake manifolf. After 2 days I thought about trying to drink through a straw with a hole in it and decided to pull the oil pan. The oil pick up tube was cracked where it threads into the block and broke off when I touched it.
A trip to the auto parts store for 2 pan gaskets and a $17.50 pick up tube and the bird is running. Thanks to everyone for their advise.
Posted By: 540DUSTER

Re: UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 - 09/09/11 11:54 PM

the pump turns counter-clock wise,so you want to run the drill in reverse.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: UPDATE Need help trying to prime the oil system. 9-9-11 - 09/10/11 11:27 AM

Quote:

Good news. I could not build any oil pressure when I tried priming the engine with a drill through the distribuitor. I kept hearing gurgling and hissing under the intake manifolf. After 2 days I thought about trying to drink through a straw with a hole in it and decided to pull the oil pan. The oil pick up tube was cracked where it threads into the block and broke off when I touched it.
A trip to the auto parts store for 2 pan gaskets and a $17.50 pick up tube and the bird is running. Thanks to everyone for their advise.



Hmm. Thought it might be that but as I mentioned, I have only seen that happen twice in over 35 years. Now it's three times. Just as a note, looking at a number of pickups over the years some seem to have rolled threads that end with a smooth transition and some seem to be cut where the end of the thread is sharp. Both failures I've personally seen had the sharply cut threads and the failure appeared to have started at the end of the thread.
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