Moparts
engine and tranny install
Posted By: Drip
engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 06:06 AM
I am about to install a 727 and 440 in my 69 B body. what is the easiest whay to do it. I will not be able to bring it from the bottom on the K member.
Do i drop in the engine from the top then bolt up the tranny from under the car, or do i put the engine and tranny together outside the car and drop them as a unit from the top.
thanks
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 07:02 AM
Probably simpler putting the trans in the car first(attaching it to the trans X-member then blocking the front of the trans up) ... THAN trying to put it in as a combo.... ESPECIALLY if this is your first time.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 08:19 AM
??????
I prefer to install them together. The trans is SO much easier to bolt up this way: Trans bellhousing bolts, the torque converter bolts, the starter too.
The hood needs to come off. Set it up where it will NOT fall over. To install the motor and trans as a unit, you will need a rolling engine hoist. You will need a way to adjust the tilt of the engine/trans as it is moved into the engine bay. There are plates that bolt to the intake in place of the carburetor. Mine has 3 holes. I use the rearmost hole if setting a trans with the motor. There are also 4 point brackets that have a metal loop attached to a long screw. This allows the load to shift and tilt.
Oh, just in case you haven't heard, bolt on the motor mounts but leave them a little loose! They often need to be shifted around some to seat correctly with the engine in place. If you tighten them down beforehand, they may not allow the motor to sit in position and you will have to loosen them up anyways.
Posted By: 69B3GT
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 08:22 AM
We just pulled the radiator on my dart and dropped the 440-727 in through the top(we removed the hood too) Went in simple enough
Posted By: buildanother
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 12:42 PM
You can place trans up in there first, put crossmember in and trans mount, and can leave floor jack under it until eng is dropped in. Have done it a few times.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 01:16 PM
Bolt them together before putting them in the car, it's way easier and faster. It's stupid to put them in separately.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 01:40 PM
Quote:
Bolt them together before putting them in the car, it's way easier and faster. It's stupid to put them in separately.
Absolutely.
Trying to line up and install the tranny with the engine is a P.I.T.A under the car.
Why the heck do you want to do two installations when you can do one.
And yes, remove the radiator, it will slip in with a little help from your friends.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 04:02 PM
both together & using the load leveler was the best ch I ever did w that (bolt the 2 rear chains to not the rear set of manifold bolts but the next pair forward) & I highly recommend removing the st box/column/center steering link. You need all the room you can muster so as to not nick/damage anything & jack the front end up pretty high and the rear less so/at least 1 helper/alot of weight on the cherry picker
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 04:48 PM
Quote:
??????
I prefer to install them together.
Yeah ... you and the other couple of 
here have probably done-this dozens of times.
This guy here appears to be a first-timer. ANOTHER consideration is the weight of the E&T combo ... having to raise it up much higher ... and lots of the cheapO cranes being tippy. And AGAIN .. him being a newbie.
Posted By: buildanother
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 04:55 PM
That's what I was picturing, small garage, flimsy bolt together hoist, etc.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 05:55 PM
Do it together. Have some helping hands to do it. Practice using the release on the hoist so you can manage that smoothly.
Jack the rear of the car way up in the air. Makes it easier. Once you get it in the bay not yet bolted in, lower the rear of the car. Then bolt it in.
IMO, you'll spend more time putting the trans/converter bolts in than the extra effort to put it in together.
Posted By: Joesixpack
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 06:10 PM
3 guys is the best manpower scenario....one on the crane, 2 directing the engine/trans assembly....a tilter works great...
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 07:24 PM
Installing the combo in a car isn't difficult. Try doing it in a truck! The engine bays are shorter and the core support is taller. Whew...Talk about stacking the deck against yourself! I did a "360 out/440 in" swap in a 74 Dodge truck, trans connected to both. BY MYSELF. Yeah, I cussed and yelled plenty.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 09:54 PM
Quote:
Installing the combo in a car isn't difficult. Try doing it in a truck! The engine bays are shorter and the core support is taller. Whew...Talk about stacking the deck against yourself! I did a "360 out/440 in" swap in a 74 Dodge truck, trans connected to both. BY MYSELF. Yeah, I cussed and yelled plenty.
On a challenger...
It can be done by one guy from the top with both tranny and motor bolted together with a cheap chinesse hoist. I've done it twice now with my cheap hoist. I'm getting ready to do it again here real soon. I use a carb lifting plate and the engine hangs at a good angle that allows me to get it in the car by myself.
[image]http://[/image]
The homemade plate I built in hi school welding class in 1978. It's way better and more compact than a tilter imo. It don't hit my firewall.
The 340 built in my race shop by me.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/15/11 10:34 PM
Quote:
This guy here appears to be a first-timer...
lots of the cheapO cranes being tippy....
And AGAIN .. him being a newbie.
Then there's no better way to learn, then, is there.
No coddling around here.
You throw them into the deep end of the pool.
They learn to swim REAL FAST. 
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 05:58 AM
Why can't you go from the bottom up? Set the jackstands back on the car a bit, tires on the back up on blocks, build something with wheels so you can roll the engine/trans and front k member under the car. Take the hood off. Hook your engine hoise through the engine compartment and suck it up against the car. Install bolts, torsion bars, upper control arms to the spindles and reinstall the calipers, which you should have hung from the fender supports with wire.
Works like a charm. Just have to get the car high enough to roll the engine under it.. You can even have the headers installed. Hardest part is getting the steering shaft reconnected.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 01:45 PM
Quote:
Why can't you go from the bottom up? Set the jackstands back on the car a bit, tires on the back up on blocks, build something with wheels so you can roll the engine/trans and front k member under the car. Take the hood off. Hook your engine hoise through the engine compartment and suck it up against the car. Install bolts, torsion bars, upper control arms to the spindles and reinstall the calipers, which you should have hung from the fender supports with wire.
Works like a charm. Just have to get the car high enough to roll the engine under it.. You can even have the headers installed. Hardest part is getting the steering shaft reconnected.
That is just about the most Rube Goldberg method I can think of for a driveway swap... 
Quote:
Just have to get the car high enough
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 04:19 PM
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 04:35 PM
Quote:
Quote:
This guy here appears to be a first-timer...
lots of the cheapO cranes being tippy....
And AGAIN .. him being a newbie.
Then there's no better way to learn, then, is there.
No coddling around here.
You throw them into the deep end of the pool.
They learn to swim REAL FAST.
GOIN' Commando .... a DOUBLE 
...at choo' !
The prob is ... is that if the M/T combo gets-away from the OP ... it can damage the car SEVERELY ...or he can damage HISself !
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 04:39 PM
Quote:
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
I am not a FAN of plates with alum intake manifolds. I have seen one pull-through the threads and badly damage the pan ...and have heard of others.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 04:49 PM
Quote:
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
I have used that plate on many different motors, like 15-20 motors with never a failure. As long as the the studs are bottemed in the manifold, they won't fail. Failure can occur if someone uses bolts that are not bottomed in the threads.
It's the handiest most compact way to do it, way better than those cheap tilters sold by HF.
I have lifted International truck 392 and 404 gas engines which are much bigger than a 440.
gETTING MY MONnIES WORTH OUT of that lift plate(it was free) 
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 04:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This guy here appears to be a first-timer...
lots of the cheapO cranes being tippy....
And AGAIN .. him being a newbie.
Then there's no better way to learn, then, is there.
No coddling around here.
You throw them into the deep end of the pool.
They learn to swim REAL FAST.
GOIN' Commando .... a DOUBLE ...at choo' !
The prob is ... is that if the M/T combo gets-away from the OP ... it can damage the car SEVERELY ...or he can damage HISself !
same thing will happen if he drops just the engine or just the tranny.
It would be assaine to do it separately.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 06:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
I am not a FAN of plates with alum intake manifolds. I have seen one pull-through the threads and badly damage the pan ...and have heard of others.
This is what I am deathly afraid of happening.
I guess I can thread a bolt into the front and back of each head and use a 4 way chain...I always looked at those lift plates and felt funny.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 06:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
I have used that plate on many different motors, like 15-20 motors with never a failure. As long as the the studs are bottemed in the manifold, they won't fail. Failure can occur if someone uses bolts that are not bottomed in the threads.
It's the handiest most compact way to do it, way better than those cheap tilters sold by HF.
I have lifted International truck 392 and 404 gas engines which are much bigger than a 440.
gETTING MY MONnIES WORTH OUT of that lift plate(it was free)
I am only lifting an iron headed smallblock....but the intake is aluminum...I take it I should get some grade 8s instead of using the normal carb studs if I do try this.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 06:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So...about those carb lift plates...I look at them and I just think it would really suck to drop a motor and trans if it pulled out on ya.
Are they really that strong? Can I trust it?
I've never tried one, but i think I am going to have to this time around since I will be doing it all myself.
I have used that plate on many different motors, like 15-20 motors with never a failure. As long as the the studs are bottemed in the manifold, they won't fail. Failure can occur if someone uses bolts that are not bottomed in the threads.
It's the handiest most compact way to do it, way better than those cheap tilters sold by HF.
I have lifted International truck 392 and 404 gas engines which are much bigger than a 440.
gETTING MY MONnIES WORTH OUT of that lift plate(it was free)
I am only lifting an iron headed smallblock....but the intake is aluminum...I take it I should get some grade 8s instead of using the normal carb studs if I do try this.
I always used the studs that were in the manifold even with iron heads, no grade 8 needed.
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 06:57 PM
Quote:
same thing will happen if he drops just the engine or just the tranny.
It would be assaine to do it separately.
Chally_1 .... YOU of all people .. the 1 that appears to have two diff cranes/hoists ....one a ChinaMart and the other being a BlueBird
To even suggest that a first-timer would have the same probs or luck with doing an install both ways ? ....
A triple ..at choo' ! .. 
Posted By: dOOc
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 07:04 PM
Quote:
I am only lifting an iron headed smallblock....but the intake is aluminum...I take it I should get some grade 8s instead of using the normal carb studs if I do try this.
NEVER heard of a carb-studs breaking using a plate .... just saw the one pull-out what remained of the threads in the alum intake. I did not actually eyeball the actual failure in-progress ... but from what my Bud saw was the one fail ...and that failed the other one on that end ...THEN the other two went. It was lucky the engine was only a foot or so off the ground.
Posted By: BSharp
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/16/11 08:11 PM
Quote:
You can place trans up in there first, put crossmember in and trans mount, and can leave floor jack under it until eng is dropped in. Have done it a few times.
I've done it like this and can then use a carb flange plate to install the engine without taking the hood off (worst part of the whole job), and I can do it all without help.
Posted By: AndyF
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 02:06 AM
Pull the hood and then slide the engine and trans together into the car. An overhead crane makes the job a snap! With the crane it usually only takes a few minutes to slide an engine in or out.
Posted By: bonefish
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 01:19 PM
get one of these,worth its weight in gold
Posted By: 1BAD68
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 02:35 PM
Another idea that I use is jack up and block the rear of the car. Then remove the front wheels and lower the front. It gives you even more of a angle for the engine/trans to slide in.
Posted By: POS Dakota
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 04:01 PM
Quote:
get one of these,worth its weight in gold
Where and how muchos? 
Posted By: bonefish
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 04:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
get one of these,worth its weight in gold
Where and how muchos? [/quote the info is in the pic.on the tool.
Posted By: Neil
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/17/11 04:39 PM
I have one of those swivel plates and it works great.
So long as the threads in the intake are in good shape you shouldn't have a problem. If your intake is a half stripped out swap meet special then maybe use one of the chain setups instead.
Also you don't need to overtighten the studs or bolts if you use the intake plate. There is no way those can turn out once a load is put on them. I've seen guys lean on those like they are lug nuts and it's just not necessary. Hand snug is perfect.
Posted By: Drip
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/22/11 02:50 AM
Thanks for all the help. Put it in with motor and tranny as a unit from the top. used the intake plate. Was accually pretty easy. Did it by myself. thanks again.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/22/11 03:17 AM
Quote:
Thanks for all the help. Put it in with motor and tranny as a unit from the top. used the intake plate. Was accually pretty easy. Did it by myself. thanks again.
And you still have both arms and legs... I'm shocked! 
Nice job and good to read you got it installed.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/22/11 03:26 AM
Quote:
Probably simpler putting the trans in the car first(attaching it to the trans X-member then blocking the front of the trans up) ... THAN trying to put it in as a combo.... ESPECIALLY if this is your first time.
That's the way I do it. No problem.
Posted By: Joesixpack
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/27/11 05:14 AM
engine/trans with tilter.....
Posted By: moparmojo
Re: engine and tranny install - 08/27/11 02:15 PM
*** Install as a pair.
Prior to installing jack up the rear of the car. It is not absolutely necessary (as you can see by all the people here who do not do it) however, it makes the one peice install so much easier. It effectively makes the opening bigger to work with because it is at less of an angle. Jack the rear of the car as high as you can and install the unit. This is the easiest way and does not require a load leveler (although one does help). It also is the safest way to do it as it slightly lowers the front end and prevents your rad support from getting scrapped up. Just guide in the tail shaft and once under the cowl, just "slowly" lower the unit while moving forward at the same time. It should drop right in place. Then lower car and raise tailhouseing into place if necessary.