Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension

Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 03:40 PM

Hey gang..
Anyone done one of these conversions? (Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fHj0b-ey5Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I have a friend who just got the complete kit. Looks like it's pretty straight forward. She mentioned I would have to weld something, but I think that's the front sway bar bracket on the lower control arm if the car's not equipped with it. But, her car is a '71 Challenger R/T, so it should have the front sway bar. Other than that, looks to be all bolt-on stuff I could do in my garage. I'm pretty good with front suspension, so that doesn't bother me.....

Posted By: Devil

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 04:07 PM

I have heard nothing but good things about the system. I wish I could put it in my car.

Posted By: HemiRick

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 04:08 PM

I hope to get one of these kits someday. The video pretty much explain it all. Looks easy.

Posted By: Ludington1

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 04:30 PM

Probably welding the subframe connectors

Posted By: cudaboy340

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 04:59 PM

I just finished installing the Hotchkis TVS kit on my '67 Belvedere EXCEPT for the rear sway bar - only because I ran out of time. The B & E Body kits are basically the same.

I love the frame connectors because they bolt to the rear spring mount but then you do have to weld them to the front sub frame. You also have to weld the sway bar end link mounts on the lower control arms and the D bushing mounts on the K frame. Not a big deal.

When I do install the rear bar, I'm going to have to weld the frame brackets on. They also recommend that you plug weld the holes. I'm probably going to skip that step so if I ever want to remove the brackets I can just cut the welds rather than try to find the plug welds and remove them, too.

The only other mod is grinding away a 1/4 moon-shaped sliver on the front mount of each upper control arm. You have to do this because the Hotchkis adjustable upper arms include a "block" that mounts to the original location and the new arm bolts to that block. You have to grind a little bit of material away so the washers will clear. As soon as you mock it up you'll see what I'm talking about.

The results? Wow!!! It's like a whole new car! Be prepared - it will sit very low and be very stiff. I have the full package with the Hotchkis T-bars and rear springs. I can't wait to pull in to one of the local auto cross events with it and see the looks on people's faces. I'll try to post a picture if I can remember how to do it. I have some pics on my personal Facebook page, too. I can email some if soneone wants to see them or post them for me.

Ed

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 05:45 PM

Yes, I run a complete Hotchkis TVS system...

Yes, you have to nip the flange near the upper conrol arm mounts as said above. You also might not like the lowered front spring hangers. If so, just put you old ones back on. Your choice. Sort of depends on rear tire size.

Attached picture 6735132-CopyofCopyofJimLuskLg2.jpg

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 06:15 PM

I just finished installing the TVS kit on my Challenger. Still in the process of aligning the front end so I have not driven it yet. Install was pretty easy just ran into a couple issues. Drivers side inner tie rod hit the torsion bar since the Hotchkis rod ends are a little taller.
Alignment can be a pain if you have to re-adjust the rod ends on the UCAs.
Since the front end was apart I also replaced the LCA bushings with poly and welded AndyF's LCA plates.

I actually wish the car sat lower than it does but no biggie. It is a nice kit...fit and finish is really high quality. Hopefully it will handle like everyone says.

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 06:58 PM

Quote:

I just finished installing the TVS kit on my Challenger. Still in the process of aligning the front end so I have not driven it yet. Install was pretty easy just ran into a couple issues. Drivers side inner tie rod hit the torsion bar since the Hotchkis rod ends are a little taller.
Alignment can be a pain if you have to re-adjust the rod ends on the UCAs.
Since the front end was apart I also replaced the LCA bushings with poly and welded AndyF's LCA plates.

I actually wish the car sat lower than it does but no biggie. It is a nice kit...fit and finish is really high quality. Hopefully it will handle like everyone says.

You can still do fine tuning with the front cam adjusters.

RTSE4ME, I'd REALLY check your rear pinion angle after running the front dropped spring hangers.

I run the stock hangers and had to bring the rear end nose down to get a 3 degrees split nose down. With the dropped front hangers it would have been a lot more. It was much easier than I thought to fix.

It should be checked in every car. Harbor Freight now has this small handy digital angle finder for $30 that works perfect in the small cramped area.

Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/18/11 08:55 PM

Yes, you have some adjustment but sometimes it is not enough and you have to remove the rod ends. Which is a a bit of a pain. The rod end type of adjustment is nice to have but not sure if I would ever use it after the initial alignment.

I didn't use the Hotchkis front hangers since I have DrDiff offset hangers. The DrDiff front hangers have 2 holes. Originally I had the 40 year old springs mounted on the lower hole. For the Hotchkis springs I used the upper hole which I was hoping this combo would lower the car an inch or so but it is the same height

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/20/11 10:36 PM

Quote:

Hey gang..
Anyone done one of these conversions? (Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fHj0b-ey5Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I have a friend who just got the complete kit. Looks like it's pretty straight forward. She mentioned I would have to weld something, but I think that's the front sway bar bracket on the lower control arm if the car's not equipped with it. But, her car is a '71 Challenger R/T, so it should have the front sway bar. Other than that, looks to be all bolt-on stuff I could do in my garage. I'm pretty good with front suspension, so that doesn't bother me.....

Thanks everyone for the nice comments about our TVS kit. We look forward to getting your opinions after some more seat time with our system installed.

Hemi68Charger � We made the kit to be as straightforward as possible with as little necessary modification to the original car as possible. As you mentioned, if your car didn�t have a front sway bar, you�ll have to weld on the included sway bar mount tabs. You have to relieve a little bit of the upper mounts to clear the upper control arms and you�ll have to weld in the front of the subframe connectors.

Here�s a link to the downloadable PDF instructions:

http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_files/80110.pdf

Posted By: 71STROKERFISH

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/20/11 11:25 PM

The kit looks real nice. I especially like the uppper control arms, stuts rods and anti-sway bas. But the subframe connectors.....I'm not liking the actual design of these.

Has anyone installed/seen the contoured subframe connecors that actually look like frame rails. I have seen these and think they would be a more stock look...maybe even more effective too...

Posted By: moparmojo

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/21/11 01:35 AM

What kind of money are we talking for one of these kits?

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/21/11 07:13 PM

Quote:

The kit looks real nice. I especially like the uppper control arms, stuts rods and anti-sway bas. But the subframe connectors.....I'm not liking the actual design of these.

Has anyone installed/seen the contoured subframe connecors that actually look like frame rails. I have seen these and think they would be a more stock look...maybe even more effective too...

71STROKERFISH � Thanks for the kind words about our TVS kit. We decided to make the kit as easy to install as possible while not being too invasive. Our subframe connectors work great and are extremely effective. Here�s a photo of one of our H-Team Challengers with our TVS (with our subframe connectors) installed with a single floor jack. Try doing this without connectors and still have the doors open and close perfectly.

Our connectors work great and they are easy and fairly quick to install.

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/21/11 07:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The kit looks real nice. I especially like the uppper control arms, stuts rods and anti-sway bas. But the subframe connectors.....I'm not liking the actual design of these.

Has anyone installed/seen the contoured subframe connecors that actually look like frame rails. I have seen these and think they would be a more stock look...maybe even more effective too...

71STROKERFISH � Thanks for the kind words about our TVS kit. We decided to make the kit as easy to install as possible while not being too invasive. Our subframe connectors work great and are extremely effective. Here�s a photo of one of our H-Team Challengers with our TVS (with our subframe connectors) installed with a single floor jack. Try doing this without connectors and still have the doors open and close perfectly.

Our connectors work great and they are easy and fairly quick to install.

Hotchkis,
Thanks for the technical support just a minute or two ago. I'm helping a friend with the installation of her kit on her '71 Challenger R/T. We were initially confused on the thought there wasn't any welding involved other than the lower control arm ft.sway bar brackets if it didn't have them. The shop owner where the car's at told her about the "welding that needed to be done". We were like there's no welding going to happen back there. But, I talked to one of your technicians and they explained to me why they are welded on now. So, she has peace of mind now with them about to take a torch to the rear framerail. Guess the front skid plate removal/install is a requirement as well? Too bad the ft.sway bar can't be snaked through.

Don't wanna do this to my Daytona, but may do this to my '69 Charger 500.

Cheers,
Troy

Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 05:38 AM

As long as this thread is already running I guess I'll add my experience with the Bilstein shocks sold by Hotchkis.. I installed them a couple days ago & the fronts were great, the rears however for some reason there was no sleeve in the upper mount, I decided to transfer the sleeve from old shocks but found the sleeve is .630ish & the outer ends of the shock bushing measure .700 ... I decided to call Hotchkis tech support & get their take on it.... The first time I called I was in the phone call maybe 3 minutes & the system up & tells me goodbye & hangs up....... I called back & got past that glitch & was put in the loop of how important my call is & we are experiencing long delays.... After ten minutes on hold I was ready to put the shocks back in the box & return them.... But I took another look & found the bushings in the top shock eye taper down in the middle & the sleeve is a light press fit through the bushing... I used my vise & installed the bushings, then installed the shocks.... I'm not real happy with how the shock bushings are & if they give me trouble in the future I'll be replacing the bushings... BUT the difference in ride quality & handling by such a simple change is simply astounding... I've used Bilsteins on my truck, my daily driver & my Girlfriends Miata... They've all worked well but the Bilsteins on the Challenger made a bigger difference than on any other of my vehicles...

FWIW I know Hotchkis mearly resells the shocks & have no hand in the bushing design, but a note explaining it would be nice... Someone actually answering my call would have been nice too...

Posted By: DennisH

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 12:17 PM

The Hotchkis-tuned Bilstein shocks on my B Body give a much improved ride and handling. Amazing that shocks alone can make this much of an improvement.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 03:29 PM

Shocks relationship to a suspension is like a cams relationship to an engine. Unfortuantly not many people realize this, but that page is finally turning over in the enthusiast world.

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 04:24 PM

Quote:

What kind of money are we talking for one of these kits?

MoparMojo - It depends on which kit and application you're referring to. We have Sway Bar kits and we also have complete TVS kits. If you're asking about our maximum driving performance TVS kits, we have them for most Mopars and range from about $2500 to $3300 suggested retail price. Many of our Dealers have periodic specials and competitive pricing on our products. Check the sponsors of this forum and also check the Dealer search on Hotchkis.net.

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 04:43 PM

Hotchkis
Maybe you can help me out here. I just got a call from my friend who's putting the E-body complete kit in her '71 Challenger R/T. She has a problem. Apparently the body, in space, is lowered a few inches. Now she's having issues with the 275/60R/15's she has in the rear, they are now rubbing against the outer wheel well/opening. I don't know what the rim with is (I'm assuming 8") nor do I know the negative offset. With your experience, what sort of +/- offset should be be focusing in on? She's apparently going to have to get a new set of rear wheels and tires now. The two areas I told her she needs to worry about now are the outer/inner wheel wells towards the top and the distance in the negative offset direction from the leaf springs.

Thanks..
Troy

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 05:50 PM

From Monday:

Quote:

... You also might not like the lowered front spring hangers. If so, just put you old ones back on. Your choice. Sort of depends on rear tire size....

The only thing that changed was initial ride height. If she bottomed out the car with the old leaf springs and shackle she should have rubbed too. Are there marks on the tires that show previous rubbing?

If you put the old front hangers on it will gain you 1" or so upward rear ride height.

You should have no less than 4.5 backspacing with a 15x8 rim. The blue Challenger above is 245/60/15 rear tires and IIRC, 15x8 with 4.5 backspacing. I forget if you need offset shackles to run 5.0" backspacing?

What are the specs of the rear rims she has on there now?

Quote:

Hotchkis
Maybe you can help me out here. I just got a call from my friend who's putting the E-body complete kit in her '71 Challenger R/T. She has a problem. Apparently the body, in space, is lowered a few inches. Now she's having issues with the 275/60R/15's she has in the rear, they are now rubbing against the outer wheel well/opening. I don't know what the rim with is (I'm assuming 8") nor do I know the negative offset. With your experience, what sort of +/- offset should be be focusing in on? She's apparently going to have to get a new set of rear wheels and tires now. The two areas I told her she needs to worry about now are the outer/inner wheel wells towards the top and the distance in the negative offset direction from the leaf springs.

Thanks..
Troy

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 06:09 PM

Quote:

What are the specs of the rear rims she has on there now?

I'm not 100% sure. I'm helping her out from here at work. I think she has 15x7's with 245/60R15's up front. The shop had to put those on the rear so the car would roll. He had an extra set of rims/tires he installed on the front. The car is at the alignment shop now. I believe she has 15x8's with 275/60R/15's out back that apparently are rubbing the wheel lip opening area now. Not sure what the backspacing is..

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 06:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What are the specs of the rear rims she has on there now?

I'm not 100% sure. I'm helping her out from here at work. I think she has 15x7's with 245/60R15's up front. The shop had to put those on the rear so the car would roll. He had an extra set of rims/tires he installed on the front. The car is at the alignment shop now. I believe she has 15x8's with 275/60R/15's out back that apparently are rubbing the wheel lip opening area now. Not sure what the backspacing is..

Are they Rallyes or magnum 500's?

Off the shelf 15x7 repro Magnum and Rallyes are 4.25" backspace. The 15x8's are 4.5 backspacing.

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/22/11 06:17 PM

Hemi68Charger - We were glad to help answer your inquiry. We did our best to make the kit as non-invasive as possible without detracting from the performance of the system. We hope everything goes well from here. We completely understand about the Daytona.

Posted By: 68RRFlyer

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/23/11 04:30 PM

Quote:

Has anyone installed/seen the contoured subframe connecors that actually look like frame rails. I have seen these and think they would be a more stock look...maybe even more effective too...

I'm doing an entire Hotchkis suspension setup on a 68 Charger and have installed XV's laser cut frome connectors, front radiator support, and upper firewall to inner fender connectors. As shown in that picture with the Challenger on one jack stand, this setup (the welded one) really looks like a factory installation. Plans on the car are a 6.1L, 5spd, Dana out back. The suspension system is 100%A top notch!!!

Cheers

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/23/11 05:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Has anyone installed/seen the contoured subframe connecors that actually look like frame rails. I have seen these and think they would be a more stock look...maybe even more effective too...

I'm doing an entire Hotchkis suspension setup on a 68 Charger and have installed XV's laser cut frome connectors, front radiator support, and upper firewall to inner fender connectors. As shown in that picture with the Challenger on one jack stand, this setup (the welded one) really looks like a factory installation. Plans on the car are a 6.1L, 5spd, Dana out back. The suspension system is 100%A top notch!!!

Cheers

Well, look at you Dave..........

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/23/11 05:46 PM

Quote:

... I believe she has 15x8's with 275/60R/15's out back that apparently are rubbing the wheel lip opening area now. Not sure what the backspacing is..

Did you figure out the rims specs and backspacing she has on those rear tires?

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/25/11 12:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

... I believe she has 15x8's with 275/60R/15's out back that apparently are rubbing the wheel lip opening area now. Not sure what the backspacing is..

Did you figure out the rims specs and backspacing she has on those rear tires?

Hey Steve..
Nope,,, I haven't spoken to her this weekend. She brough two of her 15x7 Ralleys and put them on to get the car home. Another friend made a suggestion, putting a '68-'70 B-body rear 8.75 housing w/axles in the car. It's narrower and will give her more room outboard so she can keep the wheels she wants. I believe she'll still have inboard clearance. Sounds in theory like a good idea..

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/27/11 05:45 PM

Quote:

I'm doing an entire Hotchkis suspension setup on a 68 Charger and have installed XV's laser cut frome connectors, front radiator support, and upper firewall to inner fender connectors. As shown in that picture with the Challenger on one jack stand, this setup (the welded one) really looks like a factory installation. Plans on the car are a 6.1L, 5spd, Dana out back. The suspension system is 100%A top notch!!!

Cheers

68RRFlyer � Looks like you have a great project going there! Thanks for choosing Hotchkis suspension products for your build! Keep us posted on your progress.

Posted By: Hotchkis

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 07/27/11 05:58 PM

Quote:

Hey Steve..
Nope,,, I haven't spoken to her this weekend. She brough two of her 15x7 Ralleys and put them on to get the car home. Another friend made a suggestion, putting a '68-'70 B-body rear 8.75 housing w/axles in the car. It's narrower and will give her more room outboard so she can keep the wheels she wants. I believe she'll still have inboard clearance. Sounds in theory like a good idea..

Troy - if you or your friend with the Challenger have the full TVS system, you can join the H-Team. If you drive your cars rather than just use them for car show duty, and have a TVS you are eligible. Members get a shirt, decal, and access to members-only driving events.

Here's an H-Team Track day earlier this year.
http://youtu.be/VyrRfcr4kIc

Posted By: Pale_Roader

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 08/02/11 12:25 PM

Damn.

I was trying, and almost succeeding in talking myself out ov buying this kit for my 70 Challenger when my Charger finally sells. Seems i am not going to get what i am asking for the Charger, so my budget probably just lost $1000, but IF i can buy anything new for my car with this money its going to be this system (less the connectors as my car already has some) and a 16:1 manual steering box... as my 24:1 stock one is just dangerous.

Probably a waste if i can actually do this... as blowing $3000 ov a $4500 budget on just suspension is gonna leave me with little else but junk elsewhere... but i'm only gonna have a lump ov money like this once...

I still dont want my car to be low... but i'll cross that bridge when i come to it (ordering it, that is). Maybe we can figure something out.

Posted By: feets

Re: Hotchkis Dodge Challenger Suspension - 08/02/11 08:21 PM

of.

Of.

OF!