Posted By: Spanky
AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 07:31 PM
Are the accelerator pumps for the new Thunder Series AVS the same as the old mopar AVS's? I've got a 4401S if it makes any difference.
AVS accelerator pumps
Posted By: feets
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 07:45 PM
I'd like to know if they're the same as an AFB too.
Posted By: chargincharles
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 07:52 PM
On the old Carter AVS's and AFB's they were. On the Eddies- not sure.
This much I DO know- the new Eddies use some plastic/fiber/rubber assembly for the accel pump. The old carters were Brass/Steel with a Leather seal. I wouldn't trust the new ones for ANYTHING! I've not tried the new ones in an old carb, but I just don't like the design of the new one's at all. Looks WAYYYYYY too flimsy to get the job done. Might be a contributing factor to the new Eddies getting such a bad rap.
Anyway,
I'd buy a rebuild kit for an old one just to get the old-style accel pump.
Try Mancini Racing for a rebuild kit for you old AVS. They normally stock them, and they are the correct kit.
Enjoy!
CC.
This much I DO know- the new Eddies use some plastic/fiber/rubber assembly for the accel pump. The old carters were Brass/Steel with a Leather seal. I wouldn't trust the new ones for ANYTHING! I've not tried the new ones in an old carb, but I just don't like the design of the new one's at all. Looks WAYYYYYY too flimsy to get the job done. Might be a contributing factor to the new Eddies getting such a bad rap.
Anyway,
I'd buy a rebuild kit for an old one just to get the old-style accel pump.
Try Mancini Racing for a rebuild kit for you old AVS. They normally stock them, and they are the correct kit.
Enjoy!
CC.
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 07:55 PM
Quote:
I'd like to know if they're the same as an AFB too.
The original AFB uses a smaller diameter pump than the AVS.
Posted By: feets
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 08:03 PM
I've got spare plungers for the Eddy carbs. I'll have to measure the AVS to see if it's the same size bore.
The AVS accelerator pump does not work. The passages are clear (aerosol test) and the plunger seems pliable. I think sitting for 12 years didn't do the carb any favors.
The AVS accelerator pump does not work. The passages are clear (aerosol test) and the plunger seems pliable. I think sitting for 12 years didn't do the carb any favors.
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 10:46 PM
Quote:
I've got spare plungers for the Eddy carbs. I'll have to measure the AVS to see if it's the same size bore.
The AVS accelerator pump does not work. The passages are clear (aerosol test) and the plunger seems pliable. I think sitting for 12 years didn't do the carb any favors.
What about the ball check valve in the driver side bottom of the bowl and the one in the bottom of the pump ?
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/13/11 10:53 PM
Edelbrock used to sell plungers separately. I bought a couple for some 500's I used to have.
Posted By: bee1971
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 12:01 AM
Posted By: rrunner
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 03:13 AM
Quote:
Are the accelerator pumps for the new Thunder Series AVS the same as the old mopar AVS's? I've got a 4401S if it makes any difference.
So you need the pump for the 4401s? If so just buy the kit, they are available, usually needs to be ordered, from any good parts store.
Posted By: Lee446
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 03:59 AM
I just put a kit in my old AVS as it had a bad off the line bog due to a very late pump shot that could not be adjusted out. The kit had the proper leather pump, but no matter what, I cannot get the pump shot to come in immediately. I have overhauled over 100 carbs in my life and never had a problem like this. I am beginning to think that the ethanol is affecting the pumps ability to seal well. I am going to try the edelbrock pump as I have had no problems with them working in later AFB's.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:24 AM
I went through the same thing in my AVS. Sometimes you just don't get the shot. Really no reason for it. 
Worked fine most of the time.
Worked fine most of the time.
Posted By: superwrench
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 05:16 AM
Get an Edelbrock pump....1470 I think.I used one in my GTX...seems a lot better on the shot. 
Posted By: 62maxwgn
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 02:19 PM
There are three different pumps,one for the AVS and two for the AFB.AVS is larger in diameter,AFB uses two different length pumps,AVS on right,AFB's on left.The AFB pumps have a check valve in the bottom of the pump,the AVS does not.If you have the correct pump,the pump length adjustment is correct,the connecting link is not installed backwards,the check valve in the driver side bowl to pump well is good,correct fuel level and the needle under the discharge nozzle is in place you should have no problem regardless of what pump you use if it is in good condition.I have been playing with these thing for 40 + years and can honestly say I have never had a pump problem if all the above are correct.I have went as far as soaking dried up leather pumps in oil and reusing them with no problems. 
Posted By: BradD
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 02:39 PM
I know the Edelbrock rebuild kit(#1477) does NOT come with a new pump. It has to be purchased separately. O'Reilly auto parts has them in stock for $15. The new pumps are supposed to be ethanol compatible. I know it is different than the old edelbrock pumps I took out of 4 carbs. Just throwing this out for people wondering.
Brad
Brad
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 02:42 PM
Quote:
There are three different pumps,one for the AVS and two for the AFB.AVS is larger in diameter,AFB uses two different length pumps,AVS on right,AFB's on left.The AFB pumps have a check valve in the bottom of the pump,the AVS does not.If you have the correct pump,the pump length adjustment is correct,the connecting link is not installed backwards,the check valve in the driver side bowl to pump well is good,correct fuel level and the needle under the discharge nozzle is in place you should have no problem regardless of what pump you use if it is in good condition.I have been playing with these thing for 40 + years and can honestly say I have never had a pump problem if all the above are correct.I have went as far as soaking dried up leather pumps in oil and reusing them with no problems.
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 03:32 PM
Quote:
There are three different pumps,one for the AVS and two for the AFB.AVS is larger in diameter,AFB uses two different length pumps,AVS on right,AFB's on left.The AFB pumps have a check valve in the bottom of the pump,the AVS does not.If you have the correct pump,the pump length adjustment is correct,the connecting link is not installed backwards,the check valve in the driver side bowl to pump well is good,correct fuel level and the needle under the discharge nozzle is in place you should have no problem regardless of what pump you use if it is in good condition.I have been playing with these thing for 40 + years and can honestly say I have never had a pump problem if all the above are correct.I have went as far as soaking dried up leather pumps in oil and reusing them with no problems.
I put the Edelbrock pump into my AVS on my '69 GTX (from Bee1971 and superwrench's info in the linked thread
) but had to shorten it and drill a new hole for the wire clip. The Edelbrock pump was as long or tall as the one in the center in Bill's photo and the original AVS was shorter like the one on the right in the photo. Took just a little modification but it works......about 20 bucks from Summit or get the local Advance Auto Parts to match Summit's price, Advance's price was about $10 more.MikeR
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 03:58 PM
Edelbrock and original AVS
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:05 PM
Never thought about seeing if I could transfer the seal/piston from the Edelbrock to the original AVS pump 
MikeR
MikeR
Posted By: Rug_Trucker
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:07 PM
Getting on the ride. 
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:09 PM
Or remove that black piece on the bottom of the Edelbrock pump.....don't know what it's for or if it's needed to work????
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:12 PM
That black piece is probably some kind of a packaging guard and was supposed to be removed before installation DUH, 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 04:32 PM
Quote:
That black piece is probably some kind of a packaging guard and was supposed to be removed before installation DUH,
No that is the way it supposed to be.
I installed that ebrock pump into the later carter competition series 750 afb I have just as packaged .
Posted By: chargincharles
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 06:47 PM
Quote:
There are three different pumps,one for the AVS and two for the AFB.AVS is larger in diameter,AFB uses two different length pumps,AVS on right,AFB's on left.The AFB pumps have a check valve in the bottom of the pump,the AVS does not.If you have the correct pump,the pump length adjustment is correct,the connecting link is not installed backwards,the check valve in the driver side bowl to pump well is good,correct fuel level and the needle under the discharge nozzle is in place you should have no problem regardless of what pump you use if it is in good condition.I have been playing with these thing for 40 + years and can honestly say I have never had a pump problem if all the above are correct.I have went as far as soaking dried up leather pumps in oil and reusing them with no problems.
Wow- never seen them compared side-by-side.
I stand corrected- they are different.
Also- there IS a check-valve for the pump on the AVS. It's built into the intake 'jet' at the bottom of the fuel bowl. There is also a ball bearing (or later one's used a brass valve) under the pump's squirter cluster assembly that used gravity to act like a check valve.
I still don't trust the Eddy one. Give me steel/brass and leather over plastic and neoprene every time.
Just my pennies,
CC.
Posted By: A12
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 06:56 PM
Quote:Quote:
There are three different pumps,one for the AVS and two for the AFB.AVS is larger in diameter,AFB uses two different length pumps,AVS on right,AFB's on left.The AFB pumps have a check valve in the bottom of the pump,the AVS does not.If you have the correct pump,the pump length adjustment is correct,the connecting link is not installed backwards,the check valve in the driver side bowl to pump well is good,correct fuel level and the needle under the discharge nozzle is in place you should have no problem regardless of what pump you use if it is in good condition.I have been playing with these thing for 40 + years and can honestly say I have never had a pump problem if all the above are correct.I have went as far as soaking dried up leather pumps in oil and reusing them with no problems.
Wow- never seen them compared side-by-side.
I stand corrected- they are different.
Also- there IS a check-valve for the pump on the AVS. It's built into the intake 'jet' at the bottom of the fuel bowl. There is also a ball bearing (or later one's used a brass valve) under the pump's squirter cluster assembly that used gravity to act like a check valve.
I still don't trust the Eddy one. Give me steel/brass and leather over plastic and neoprene every time.
Just my pennies,
CC.
I don't know if the one (original looking in the photo with the Edlbrk above) I took out is leather, think it is rubber???????
Maybe it is leather or it's not an original ???
Posted By: chargincharles
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 07:07 PM
If it's original, it's leather.
But- soak it in Gasoline for 30+ years- and it looks like something else! I soak my new ones in Oil for a day before I install them, and I soak them in oil for a day when I take the carb off and go through it every year at the beginning of Spring. My car sits during the winter, so I go through the carb and check things every spring.
Your's looks like it has a chunk out of it, so I wouldn't try to re-use it. If it didn't I would have soaked that one, then flared the lip and put it back in!
As a hint:
I shoot all the gaskets with non-stick cooking spray before I install them. This makes it easy to disassemble the carb later as I don't destroy any gaskets in the process. This is a Holley trick BTW...
Enjoy!
CC.
But- soak it in Gasoline for 30+ years- and it looks like something else! I soak my new ones in Oil for a day before I install them, and I soak them in oil for a day when I take the carb off and go through it every year at the beginning of Spring. My car sits during the winter, so I go through the carb and check things every spring.
Your's looks like it has a chunk out of it, so I wouldn't try to re-use it. If it didn't I would have soaked that one, then flared the lip and put it back in!
As a hint:
I shoot all the gaskets with non-stick cooking spray before I install them. This makes it easy to disassemble the carb later as I don't destroy any gaskets in the process. This is a Holley trick BTW...
Enjoy!
CC.
Posted By: 67SATisfaction
Re: AVS accelerator pumps - 07/14/11 09:25 PM
I've rebuilt 4 AVSs successfully. One thing I found is the leather gasket on the acc.pump can get partially folded back when you insert the new one into the tapered bore. I've used plenty of engine oil as lube plus a feeler gauge as a shoe horn to get them to seat and seal right. Otherwise no major issues. My rebuild kits were all by Walker, IIRC.Art