9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft

Posted By: Coke

9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/26/11 09:56 PM

Hi,

I have a 440 engine with mopar 452 alu heads (84cc),flat pistons .030 over with a 0.086" deck clearance and a set of 0.039" head gaskets.

I have used a CR calculator and i got a result of 8.98:1 CR

The car is a 69�Charger 4-speed with 3.55 gear
I don,t understand very much about cams so somebody said to me that this would work ok with my set up,since i want a street car,nothing for the track .
I would aprecciate more opinions before to order it:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL21-227-4/

Thanks a lot for your help

Posted By: Prince_Valiant

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 12:59 AM

That would be an excellent cam for your set-up...though I'd be inclined to go with a compXE 268 if I didn't have headers (you say if you do or don't). But definitely if you're running headers, go with that cam.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 01:00 AM

For a street car I think that is a fine choice. Being a 4 speed,you could easily get away with more but that is the racer in me. It should cruise right in the right rpm range with your gears assuming the tire size is not something way out of the ordinary.
Keith

Posted By: landon1

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 02:16 AM

my 440's almost exactly same as your specs. i was deciding between the Comp XE cams and ended up going with the XE268 because i have an auto and didn't want to get into changing the converter - probably still could've went with a bit more cam, so the 275's probably a good choice

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 02:32 AM

Nobody here tells it like it is --those XE series make a lot of noise and clatter as they all have some crazy closing ramp that makes the computer that designed them happy but they stink as street cams--WHY put up with that clatter? Oh..they say it makes more HP--yea right! One of the older Magnum cams is JUST AS GOOD in a streeter and they do make good HP for their size--I dyno Mopars all the time --have done a zillion and those cams are not all that great---call Bullit or Cam Motion or Isky or Engle and get a great cam on a GOOD core ( lot of Comps junk is China softies) or just drop a Magnum Comp in and have a great rod--XE's are hype and clattering crap as far as I am concerned

Posted By: goldmember

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 03:12 AM

Quote:

Nobody here tells it like it is --those XE series make a lot of noise and clatter as they all have some crazy closing ramp that makes the computer that designed them happy but they stink as street cams--WHY put up with that clatter? Oh..they say it makes more HP--yea right! One of the older Magnum cams is JUST AS GOOD in a streeter and they do make good HP for their size--I dyno Mopars all the time --have done a zillion and those cams are not all that great---call Bullit or Cam Motion or Isky or Engle and get a great cam on a GOOD core ( lot of Comps junk is China softies) or just drop a Magnum Comp in and have a great rod--XE's are hype and clattering crap as far as I am concerned

Well said!

Posted By: DennisH

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 03:20 AM

Baloney. CRB XE275HL-10. Comp. 415 RWHP Dyno. Sweet lope. 9.5:1.

Posted By: goldmember

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 04:20 AM

Quote:

Baloney. CRB XE275HL-10. Comp. 415 RWHP Dyno. Sweet lope. 9.5:1.

Not enough info to say much(yawn),whats the combo,340/360? Dyno sheet you can post?

Posted By: joedust451

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 08:50 AM

I ran 10.9s on the XE284H junker, with a best of 10.91, all this shifting at 5600, there was a 10.8 in it i'm sure, so yeah i'd say there crappy & don't make much power

, But i will say most of the lifter clatter is do to running run of the mill hyd. lifters, the magnum lifters they sell with the kit are junk IMO, clatter city after a few thrashings, So i learned my leason & went with the "pro-magnum" (anti pump-up) lifters & never looked back, there a much better design & are for high RPM, they carry a heavier C style clip & can be run at 0 preload. I'd rather hear a valvetrain have a mild solid cam like sound but know i have the added peice of mind the lifters are going to handle it & no fall apart!

With such a mild 440, i'd run the XE274H & call it a day. But you can go with a custom grind like mentioned from Bullet, Isky-Racer brown exc.

Posted By: Coke

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 11:50 AM

Quote:

Nobody here tells it like it is --those XE series make a lot of noise and clatter as they all have some crazy closing ramp that makes the computer that designed them happy but they stink as street cams--WHY put up with that clatter? Oh..they say it makes more HP--yea right! One of the older Magnum cams is JUST AS GOOD in a streeter and they do make good HP for their size--I dyno Mopars all the time --have done a zillion and those cams are not all that great---call Bullit or Cam Motion or Isky or Engle and get a great cam on a GOOD core ( lot of Comps junk is China softies) or just drop a Magnum Comp in and have a great rod--XE's are hype and clattering crap as far as I am concerned

Thanks a lot for the replies,that is why i always prefer to ask 1000 times before to order something.
The trouble is that now i,m very indecided,cause the noise and the clatter wich you refer to ,are not very desirable options for the kind of car i want to build.
The guy who suggested that cam to me also spoke about the Lunati voodo 60303 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60303/
I don,t know if the trouble would be the same.

I also have heard good things about the mopar purple 509 cam

About the Magnum Comp,it would be a good option to looking for one with the same lift and duration(More or less) and also order a set of Promagnum lifters?

Thanks a lot again
Ah!The car has Hooker super-competition headers and 295/50r15 rear tires.

Posted By: LikarockCrusher

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 04:01 PM

Well, I agree the comp camshafts are not my pick of the litter. And I haven't got to bad things to say for voodoo. But I prefer the Hughes or Isky.

Posted By: DennisH

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 06:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Baloney. CRB XE275HL-10. Comp. 415 RWHP Dyno. Sweet lope. 9.5:1.

Not enough info to say much(yawn),whats the combo,340/360? Dyno sheet you can post?

440. That's what the OP has. 850 Demon. TTI's. Don't need to post sheets to prove.

Posted By: Prince_Valiant

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/27/11 07:59 PM

Quote:

I also have heard good things about the mopar purple 509 cam

That cam might leave you a little low on vacuum if you run power brakes...and would be happiest with higher gears.

The 484 cam would be a good street cruiser for your set-up.

--As far as the cam noise, I've never run into a problem w/ lifter noise with such cams. I did use custom length pushrods to ensure proper pre-load.

My favorite cam I've used have been sourced from hughes. Racer brown and other mopar specific cams are likely just as good, though I've yet to try them. But Dave from Hughes has always been very helpful everytime I've called; And when comparing cam of similar size to his cams, I'm a believer. I used a similar grind cam from him compared to a MP cam I had and the power difference was more than just seat-of-the-pants difference.

If you were to check out his stuff, his HEH3237 would be a good cam for such a car (232/237 @ .050, .540/.548 lift, 110 LSA). Healthy idle to sound good at the cruise in, enough vacuum for a street car, enough power all around to satisfy.

But the reality is given your goals, there are a number of cams in the range you're looking at that would work fine. Heck, since racing is specifically NOT a goal, perhaps just going with the "big" summit cam would suit you since it's an easy cam to live with, nothing about it will stress the valvetrain or lead to undue noise, will produce enough vacuum, etc, etc, and of course, it's cheap!

And if you do want to go quick, that's just what 440's with good heads do, regardless of cam selected.

Posted By: GTXX

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/28/11 03:18 AM

a big no on the 292/.509 with 3.55 gears and 9:1 comp. I like the cam but wouldn't use with less than 3.91 gears, and it does not have enough vacuum for power brakes.

Posted By: joedust451

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/28/11 04:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

and would be happiest with higher gears.

You mean "lower" gears.

--As far as the cam noise, I've never run into a problem w/ lifter noise with such cams. I did use custom length pushrods to ensure proper pre-load.

Thats where adj. rockers help cure that issue.

Posted By: Coke

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/28/11 11:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My favorite cam I've used have been sourced from hughes. Racer brown and other mopar specific cams are likely just as good, though I've yet to try them. But Dave from Hughes has always been very helpful everytime I've called; And when comparing cam of similar size to his cams, I'm a believer. I used a similar grind cam from him compared to a MP cam I had and the power difference was more than just seat-of-the-pants difference.

If you were to check out his stuff, his HEH3237 would be a good cam for such a car (232/237 @ .050, .540/.548 lift, 110 LSA). Healthy idle to sound good at the cruise in, enough vacuum for a street car, enough power all around to satisfy.

I have sent a mail to hughes but they are taking two weeks or more for replying.
Also have filled the Lunati page "Find my cam" form with the engine specs and my intentions, and they have replied to me very quick.
They say that acordding to their calculations this should be the cam:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60302/

Also have found a thread where a member seems to be very happy with the 60304,but i don,t know what compression ratio he is running.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5899959&Main=5899532

Posted By: Prince_Valiant

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/29/11 03:26 AM

Quote:

I have sent a mail to hughes but they are taking two weeks or more for replying.

Call 'em...believe me, you won't be disappointed. Prompt and courteous...and very knowledgeable.

The other cam looks a touch small....not horrid though, but small for a manual trans cruiser.

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/29/11 03:49 AM

camshat selection can be very subjective. one mans posion is anothers cup of tea. the best suggestion i have to give is get on the phone and talk to some cam grinders. don't call just one, call several. with the lower compression you have i'd be a little careful so that you don't end up with a bunch of tuning problems asscociated with too much duration. i personally like engles because they've been so damn reliable for me. but, any grinder can find something thats a good fit for what you're doing.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/29/11 10:19 PM

looks like a decent choice. I went 12.90 in a 67 coronet with a almost 9:1 set-up like yours. I used the summit 488 cam, stock 906 heads, headers, 750DP, RPM intake, 2600 stall and 3.91's, Maybe you could use a steel shim gasket and bring up the compression some?

Posted By: Coke

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/29/11 10:42 PM

Quote:

Call 'em...believe me, you won't be disappointed. Prompt and courteous...and very knowledgeable.

The other cam looks a touch small....not horrid though, but small for a manual trans cruiser.

Well,i will try it...I say this because i,m a lost man out of the E-mails ,i,m very bad speaking English ,more by phone,but i will try it

Mr yuck,when i was using the compression calculator i was checking it with the .020 gaskets and the result was 9.31 :1 or so.
You�re right,could be another option .
Did you Dyno test that Coronet?

Regards

Posted By: lewtot184

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/29/11 11:21 PM

Quote:

looks like a decent choice. I went 12.90 in a 67 coronet with a almost 9:1 set-up like yours. I used the summit 488 cam, stock 906 heads, headers, 750DP, RPM intake, 2600 stall and 3.91's, Maybe you could use a steel shim gasket and bring up the compression some?

i thought about suggesting that summit cam. i don't think it would be a bad choice.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 06/30/11 02:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Call 'em...believe me, you won't be disappointed. Prompt and courteous...and very knowledgeable.

The other cam looks a touch small....not horrid though, but small for a manual trans cruiser.

Well,i will try it...I say this because i,m a lost man out of the E-mails ,i,m very bad speaking English ,more by phone,but i will try it

Mr yuck,when i was using the compression calculator i was checking it with the .020 gaskets and the result was 9.31 :1 or so.
You�re right,could be another option .
Did you Dyno test that Coronet?

Regards

never dyno'd it. Car weighed 3850 w/ me and gas. Ran Consistant 12.90-99 depending on weather. I'm guessing it was at the 450hp range.

Posted By: landon1

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 07/01/11 02:08 AM

i heard about the "clatter" associated with the XE cams on this forum when i was building my 440. however, after having it done for almost 2 years now, i still don't hear any noise - sounds about like a stock motor with a little more lope...big deal

Posted By: Dodge

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 07/01/11 02:57 AM

My buddy and I both used the XE274H, but I used Mopar lifters and he used Napa lifters. No noise.

Posted By: Coke

Re: 9:1 Compression ratio 440 Camshaft - 07/12/11 11:59 AM

Thanks,
Then the noise trouble will be only with the lifters..

However,the last week i received a reply from Hughes:

Jorge,

Your compression ratio is extremely low for aluminum heads. Normally I don�t sell cams for an engine with low compression. We now have our Whiplash cams for low compression engines. They have very good low end and mid-range power, very aggressive idle characteristics, vacuum about 9�-11�. Cam P/N HMC3245BL ? Lifters P/N 5001,Springs P/N 1106. Check the cams out on our web site.

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=25116
Thanks

Dave

What i did then was to took my time and measure the deck again ,using feeler gauges an a dial indicator with a magnetic base.(I was using a vernier caliper,wich is not so accurate).
I noticed that the deck distances went from 0.074" in the 1&2 cyls to
0.068 and 0.065 in other cylinders.
Then the comp .ratio will be more around 9.30:1 with a 0.039" gasket.
Using a 0.020" gasket it could go between 9.65-9.70:1.

I have sent another mail to hughes just for asking them if that cam could be still correct for this engine.

thanks again for any input