Moparts
383 VS 440
Posted By: CUDA8U
383 VS 440 - 06/20/11 11:08 PM
WHICH IS BETTER TO BUILD FOR A STREETABLE APPLICATION ON PUMP GAS BUT CAN STILL TEAR UP THE STREETS?
I'M HOPING TO BE AROUND 500HP ON PUMP GAS.
COULD YOU GIVE REASONS FOR YOUR CHOICE PLS.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/20/11 11:31 PM
The 440 for the same reason as the one I gave in your other thread.
....as I said, it isn't rocket science: the 383 and 440 are very similar only the 440 is 15% larger. Not sure what more you need to know
....and PLEASE turn off your cap locks.
Dave
Posted By: DennisH
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/20/11 11:55 PM
I'm under that at 415 RWHP. 440. Almost enough for me to tear around town on pump gas. I'll always take more if I can get it.
I'll be the "stand alone" here. Not knocking off the 440 at all, (I'm a 413 guy!
) but I'd go with the 383. It can go to 500hp, but it WOULD definitely need the better heads to start with. Other reasons for which many "may" say it's insane but:
Less rotating weight (crank mass) in the motor.
Strong rods (when NEW) proven to go OVER 6200-6500 rpms with
a good safety margin to boot.
Oversquare bore/stroke combo with a 1.89 rod ratio - great for HI-RPM HP, midrange to hi-end torque.
Easy to obtain, cheap to build, but piston prices have risen lately!
In otherwords, it's an overgrown 340!!
Only drawbacks - it NEEDS a lightweight body to run really HARD to "coin" the sub 11 sec and faster brackets. Motor needs a "pro" type oiling system for the sub-12 sec brackets, which include enlarged main oil feed and return block passages
and possibly external oil lines and filters. Helps make them live longer!! A little more work than whats needed on the 440,
but they DO HAUL THE MAIL!!
Posted By: 440PURSUIT
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 01:28 AM
Try the 383 with a 4.25 stroke and good heads, 496ci. Mine did 648 horse under 6k RPM and under 10:1. Hydraulic roller.
440 all the way. When you say "tear up the streets" torque is what you want, not so much horsepower. Not saying the 383 isnt capable, but the 440 will be more docile and driveable at the same power level while making more torque.
440, it has more displacement (you asked). And I'll be the 12th person to say TURN OFF YOUR CAPS
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 01:54 AM
so what's you opinion on the edelbrock top end kits?
and how much porting can be done to these head/intake combo?
Posted By: terzmo
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 02:10 AM
A 440 is obvious as the 383 supporters most likely vote for the underdog everytime....it just makes sense, that dollar for dollar the 440 is just as economical to build as a 383.....so what advantage is there with 57 less cubes....read the want ads and for one example...you'll see..."mopar for sale...383 with 440 heads" If the thing was that great it would run it's own heads....
Posted By: forphorty
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 02:13 AM
The answer to your question lies in my misspelled username
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 02:17 AM
440 has bigger bore that helps un-shroud the valve and make more HP with the same heads. Also for the street the extra TQ is fun
Any money you save buying a 383 will be lost when buying pistons. The differance in weight is minimal, not like the differance going from BB to SB and either big block build it is gonna be a pain to change plugs compared to the SB so the minimal differance in deck height don't really make it much easier. If the choice is 440 or 383 build the 440 every time.
BTW after 67 the 440 and 383 used the same heads
Posted By: west
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 02:21 AM
Quote:
so what's you opinion on the edelbrock top end kits?
and how much porting can be done to these head/intake combo?
Eddys have good head/intake combo's. Myself,
I was thinking along the lines of Indys and a
"deep ported intake" read: aluminum, non-Magnum, type Like I said, it takes a bit more to make a 383 run really hard!!
Quote:
440 all the way. When you say "tear up the streets" torque is what you want, not so much horsepower. Not saying the 383 isnt capable, but the 440 will be more docile and driveable at the same power level while making more torque.
I hear you loud and clear. 
..but one factor overlooked, the advantage of 57 cubes CAN be offset by LESS vehicle weight, where HP is the
ruling factor of overcoming frictional drag on the top-end scale. Less weight doesn't need as much torque as it does hp.
Quote:
A 440 is obvious as the 383 supporters most likely vote for the underdog everytime....it just makes sense, that dollar for dollar the 440 is just as economical to build as a 383.....so what advantage is there with 57 less cubes....read the want ads and for one example...you'll see..."mopar for sale...383 with 440 heads" If the thing was that great it would run it's own heads....
For one year 440's were running 383/413 non Maxi-heads, before the Magnum heads were used on Magnum engines, so on and so forth.
Posted By: DennisH
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 12:56 PM
There is no replacement. For displacement. 440.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 01:31 PM
Quote:
....read the want ads and for one example...you'll see..."mopar for sale...383 with 440 heads" If the thing was that great it would run it's own heads....
You see ads like that because the seller is UNEDUCATED about mopar big blocks ... FYI the 383 - 2bbl runs the EXACT SAME heads as the 440, only difference is the valve springs .
400 block, stoker kit ,make 500 cci,
street/race, lighter block, be had cheap,
set rpm heads, mid to low 11s, could be able run in the 10 without whole lot work,
jmo
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 03:17 PM
The weight differance is mabey 20# tops while the cube differance is 57 cubic inches, 20 LBS is not nearly as significant as 57 cubic inches
more than 20# , try 75+ little over 3/4 in across the whole block,
main area in the low dec much stronger.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 04:28 PM
Quote:
more than 20# , try 75+ little over 3/4 in across the whole block,
main area in the low dec much stronger.
Nope, you are WRONG; 20lbs is about right. it actually varies block to block and year to year. We had a thread on it with all the backup info a few weeks ago but I'm too lazy to do a search.
Going with a 383 because of weight is just dumb.
Dave
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 04:58 PM
http://www.arengineering.com/articles/sonicbig.html....15 lbs difference between a 383 and 440 shortblock.
basically, you might find a 440 that is 30 lbs heavier than a particular 383 and you might also find one that is almost identical in weight......certainly a negligeable difference in any case and one that is more than offset by the difference in displacement. A change to headers or an aluminum intake is more significant than the difference in the block weights.
Dave
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 05:05 PM
I'll have to agree with the majority on this one..
A good graintruck 440 will make for tire frying fun.
Well,weather it B,RB,magnum or Hemi. Their all MOPAR BABY. I have ran them all but prefer the 440 less costly than the hemi and more cubes. An easy 500 hp and easier 500 lbs TQ keep it simple and dependible and enjoy lifes great pleasures.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 06:04 PM
Quote:
The weight differance is mabey 20# tops while the cube differance is 57 cubic inches, 20 LBS is not nearly as significant as 57 cubic inches
You're right: if a car had 10 lbs per hp (ie. 400hp in a 4000 lb car) and the engine was producing 1hp per cu in, then 57 cu in = 57 hp which would make up for 570lbs of car weight! ...or conversely you would have to use up 2hp of the 57hp you gained with the 440 to deal with the extra 20 lbs leaving you with a 55hp advantage.
.....The aforementioned numbers are generic, but you get the idea.
Dave
mmm intresting read ,go out take it out, put my 440 in it throw my 383 away,
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 10:03 PM
really? four four tee. $ for $ in will stomp any BB mopar. (that includes Hemis)
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/21/11 11:49 PM
so how exactly would you build a streetable 440 that runs on pump gas that would rip up the streets?
Quote:
There is no replacement. For displacement. 440.
Not knocking displacement at all!! It's your choice. 440's do make great power, but they aren't the cure all for EVERY build or budget. If that was the case, 383's, 413's, 426W's
and 361's (yes, there are a gathering of them too!) would be sold for scrap at premium prices.
400's being the renowned platform for the "stroker
crowd", I give a warm reception for it. Great all-around motor, just needs a GOOD set of heads on it and then you can continue to build from there.
I'm not beating up on 440's at all, I just care for a challenge and the non-popular motors are MY challenges. A 500+ inch six
pack motor would make me 
, but a 390 inch
(383-based) dual quad, hi-rpm screamer stuffed in
a 3200 or lighter A body, "stripped" B-E body or
even in an AMC Hornet, Pacer or Gremlin, would be
just as exciting to hear as to see lay down a run!
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 12:16 AM
Quote:
so how exactly would you build a streetable 440 that runs on pump gas that would rip up the streets?
OK, only because I'm bored 
;
- stock 440 bored however much it needs to be to clean it up
- decent lightweight rods and pistons; properly balance rotating assy.
- 10:1 compression
- hydraulic roller cam (perhaps a Crane 689531 - you can make good power with a number of flat tappet mech or hyd cams or a mech roller, but the hyd roller offers the low maintanence of a hyd without the wear concerns of a flat tappet cam)
- Edelbrock aluminum or equivalent heads
- Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
- Holley 850 carb
- TTI 1 7/8 headers, mandrel bent 2 1/2" exhaust and Dynomax Ultraflows
If you have more money; spring for a 440 source 500ci stroker kit.
Dave
Quote:
Well,weather it B,RB,magnum or Hemi. Their all MOPAR BABY. I have ran them all but prefer the 440 less costly than the hemi and more cubes. An easy 500 hp and easier 500 lbs TQ keep it simple and dependible and enjoy lifes great pleasures.
K.I.S.S. principle IS MOPARS' longstanding rule of thumb, but they have also DARED to be DIFFERENT!! Reason: To keep the "competition" guessing!!
Quote:
mmm intresting read ,go out take it out, put my 440 in it throw my 383 away,
How much for the 383?
Posted By: CUDA8U
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 01:21 AM
that compression ratio with 500hp rating will run fine on pump gas?
Posted By: ChinooK440
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 02:32 AM
383 are slugs for mild steet engines .... not enough low end torque for me ,,,,i,d take a 360 before
a 383 ..........i,s pitty da fool who,s runs da tree eighty 3
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 05:01 AM
Quote:
really? four four tee. $ for $ in will stomp any BB mopar. (that includes Hemis)
Wasn't it a little too early for you to be 
Posted By: Dodgem
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 02:06 PM
Nice +.030/.040/.060 440 with aluminum heads (Edelbrock) CNC ported if you can afford it!! Edelbrock 440 RPM Performer intake, 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 headers (maybe 2 " depending on where the build goes), 10.5 to 1 (9 to one with iron heads) 750 vac or DP holley (900 or 1000 if build goes bigger hp)will work quite nicely and a 240/248 @ .050 ish cam advanced a bit extra and a 3000 stall 4000 if you pass 250/258 @ .050. Easy to make 475 to 575 and good torque!!
But and a big "BUT" by the time you turn' polish and balance your crank, rebuild or better after market rods, new pistons, rings, bearings a stoker hit will give you 493 to 512 cubes for the same price no hassle.
"THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR CUBIC IN DISPLACEMENT"
Then up the cam to 250/258 ish @ .050 or 260/268 for more as bigger motors need bigger cams. and your easy hp goes to an 550 to 650 with much more torque at the same time!!!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 02:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
really? four four tee. $ for $ in will stomp any BB mopar. (that includes Hemis)
Wasn't it a little too early for you to be
really? go price a hemi and get back with me. For the cost of the valve train alone I can build a nice 440. Didn't say a wedge is a better engine, just that for the same amount of money..say 5k you can build a 440 that will run, nd for 5k you might have 1/2 of your hemi.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 03:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
There is no replacement. For displacement. 440.
Not knocking displacement at all!! It's your choice. 440's do make great power, but they aren't the cure all for EVERY build or budget. If that was the case, 383's, 413's, 426W's
and 361's (yes, there are a gathering of them too!) would be sold for scrap at premium prices.
400's being the renowned platform for the "stroker
crowd", I give a warm reception for it. Great all-around motor, just needs a GOOD set of heads on it and then you can continue to build from there.
I'm not beating up on 440's at all, I just care for a challenge and the non-popular motors are MY challenges. A 500+ inch six
pack motor would make me , but a 390 inch
(383-based) dual quad, hi-rpm screamer stuffed in
a 3200 or lighter A body, "stripped" B-E body or
even in an AMC Hornet, Pacer or Gremlin, would be
just as exciting to hear as to see lay down a run!
Good points. I ran a 130mph trap speed with my 383 in a cuda, which is a bit more interesting than if it had been a 440.
I gotta confess though, I didn't set out to build it, it came up as a good deal.
my 500" stuff is sitting in the corner.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 05:38 PM
Quote:
How much for the 383?
shoot cant be worth much now!! they just said a 440 can out run it!!
i dono , got about 750$ in the block 1100$ in heads, el-cheapo cam 300$
so throw it away ,hahah lol, i'am so scared to bring it out now ,with all them there 440 s going to beat me up
It's ok, you can calm down; nobody said that 383's can't run strong or make over 500hp. What I (and others) DID say is that if you built a 440 the EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 05:39 PM
Quote:
that compression ratio with 500hp rating will run fine on pump gas?
Yes, with aluminum heads (depending on the cam) you should easily be able to run 10:1 or a bit more.
Dave
Posted By: dogdays
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 07:41 PM
One thing no one has mentioned is size. For example, a B engine is a much happier fit in an A body than an RB. So a 4.25 stroke 383 would be my choice in a Dart.
About weight: I believe the stock weights between B and RB were heavily (!) influenced by cast iron intake manifold weight.
About compression: just be sure to get the pistons very close to or at zero deck to maximize squish. With the aluminum heads and everythign else in order you should be able to run 10.5:1 on pump premium.
R.
PS: By careful shopping you can take 200 grams out of each piston/pin combo which will make the 440 rev more like a smallblock.
PPS: Unless you already have crank and rods ready to go I'd say go stroker crank and aftermarket rods with 7/16" bolts.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 07:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
It may be physics..... but far from simple.
Bearing speeds/loads
Ring friction
Rod/stroke ratio
bore/stroke ratio
Cylinder Head flow/ cubic inch ratio
etc.
etc.
etc.
IIRC even Sonnys claims with bigger engines you get diminishing returns. I guess what it comes down to, is the 440 makes more low down torque, due to the long arm. If the 383 was .070 over, it should make more power at very high rpm. (4.320 vs. 4.320)
Food for thought....
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/22/11 09:19 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
It may be physics..... but far from simple.
Bearing speeds/loads
Ring friction
Rod/stroke ratio
bore/stroke ratio
Cylinder Head flow/ cubic inch ratio
etc.
etc.
etc.
IIRC even Sonnys claims with bigger engines you get diminishing returns. I guess what it comes down to, is the 440 makes more low down torque, due to the long arm. If the 383 was .070 over, it should make more power at very high rpm. (4.320 vs. 4.320)
Food for thought....
Yes there are lots of incidental physics but the big picture really doesn't change much: the 440 is 15% bigger and you can expect it to make roughly 15% more power than an equivalent 383....that's all there is to it.
The whole bore vs. stroke thing is largly an urban myth; there was a really good article I've saved somewhere (Hotrod?) that tested two Mark IV BBC's, both the same displacement but one had a much longer stroke and the other had a much bigger bore. The idea was to prove (or disprove) the theory that the long stroke motor would develop more low end torque and the short stroke motor would have more high RPM power......in the end there was only a couple hp difference between the two motors; a negligeable amount.
....yet still the urban myth persists in many circles. I WILL however concede that the 383 would have less friction losses, but in the real world it doesn't change the whole 15% thing a noticeable amount.
The bottom line is that 383's and 440's are very similar engines and using the same compression ratio, cam, heads, manifolds/headers, carbs, etc. will yield a difference in output VERY close to the difference in displacement. Of course if you use a carb that is too small (or any other missmatching of components), that will favor the smaller displacement motor.
Also, at the end of the day, even if I was wrong and the 383 is more efficient, it certainly wouldn't (and isn't) 15% more efficient and since the cost to rebuild the two motors is virtually identical, the answer to the original question remains....the 440 is cheaper to get to 500hp...no ifs, ands or buts about it.
Dave
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 01:30 AM
Quote:
I'll have to agree with the majority on this one..
A good graintruck 440 will make for tire frying fun.
Posted By: Twostick
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 02:37 AM
Quote:
that compression ratio with 500hp rating will run fine on pump gas?
My 440 based 493 stroker is 8.97:1 and did 500hp 600 lb/ft. Runs fine on 87 regular. That is why there is no replacement for displacement.
Kevin
Quote:
Quote:
that compression ratio with 500hp rating will run fine on pump gas?
My 440 based 493 stroker is 8.97:1 and did 500hp 600 lb/ft. Runs fine on 87 regular. That is why there is no replacement for displacement.
Kevin [/quote ]
GOOD Opinion. But not everybody runs
the displacement!! Some people like the hi-rpm
adrenalin rush of mid to top end power!!
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
It may be physics..... but far from simple.
Bearing speeds/loads
Ring friction
Rod/stroke ratio
bore/stroke ratio
Cylinder Head flow/ cubic inch ratio
etc.
etc.
etc.
IIRC even Sonnys claims with bigger engines you get diminishing returns. I guess what it comes down to, is the 440 makes more low down torque, due to the long arm. If the 383 was .070 over, it should make more power at very high rpm. (4.320 vs. 4.320)
Food for thought....
Yes there are lots of incidental physics but the big picture really doesn't change much: the 440 is 15% bigger and you can expect it to make roughly 15% more power than an equivalent 383....that's all there is to it.
The whole bore vs. stroke thing is largly an urban myth; there was a really good article I've saved somewhere (Hotrod?) that tested two Mark IV BBC's, both the same displacement but one had a much longer stroke and the other had a much bigger bore. The idea was to prove (or disprove) the theory that the long stroke motor would develop more low end torque and the short stroke motor would have more high RPM power......in the end there was only a couple hp difference between the two motors; a negligeable amount.
....yet still the urban myth persists in many circles. I WILL however concede that the 383 would have less friction losses, but in the real world it doesn't change the whole 15% thing a noticeable amount.
The bottom line is that 383's and 440's are very similar engines and using the same compression ratio, cam, heads, manifolds/headers, carbs, etc. will yield a difference in output VERY close to the difference in displacement. Of course if you use a carb that is too small (or any other missmatching of components), that will favor the smaller displacement motor.
Also, at the end of the day, even if I was wrong and the 383 is more efficient, it certainly wouldn't (and isn't) 15% more efficient and since the cost to rebuild the two motors is virtually identical, the answer to the original question remains....the 440 is cheaper to get to 500hp...no ifs, ands or buts about it.
Dave
Another great opinion. Would with it:
Yes.. and NO!! Yes, the 440 may be cheaper to get to the 500hp level. NO, you cannot build the two
motors identical since they produce power at two different rpm ranges - 440 at the stronger low end to upper midrange, 383 at midrange to topend (cyl head/carb flow limit). Different design characteristics that can only be compared equally
by bore/stroke changes. Food for thought 57 cubes (440) vs an extended engine power peak rpm limit by nearly 1000 rpms (383).
Quote:
383 are slugs for mild steet engines .... not enough low end torque for me ,,,,i,d take a 360 before
a 383 ..........i,s pitty da fool who,s runs da tree eighty 3
I,s guess youse mister pitty who got FOOLed by a
HARD running tree eighty 3 out-legging ya thru the traps, huh!! 
Quote:
Quote:
How much for the 383?
shoot cant be worth much now!! they just said a 440 can out run it!!
i dono , got about 750$ in the block 1100$ in heads, el-cheapo cam 300$
so throw it away ,hahah lol, i'am so scared to bring it out now ,with all them there 440 s going to beat me up
It's ok, you can calm down; nobody said that 383's can't run strong or make over 500hp. What I (and others) DID say is that if you built a 440 the EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
Then I'll tell you this... DO not say the same exact way, but build BOTH to the 500 hp level!!
THAT'S EQUAL, since you have a set hp limits. Comparing exact (identical parts and procedures between the two)
builds and which motor's closest to 500hp isn't a contest at all!!
Posted By: ireland383
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 11:47 AM
All I know is that I whooped up on many 440's with my Wee83!
Posted By: DennisH
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 12:39 PM
Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 03:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How much for the 383?
shoot cant be worth much now!! they just said a 440 can out run it!!
i dono , got about 750$ in the block 1100$ in heads, el-cheapo cam 300$
so throw it away ,hahah lol, i'am so scared to bring it out now ,with all them there 440 s going to beat me up
It's ok, you can calm down; nobody said that 383's can't run strong or make over 500hp. What I (and others) DID say is that if you built a 440 the EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
Then I'll tell you this... DO not say the same exact way, but build BOTH to the 500 hp level!!
THAT'S EQUAL, since you have a set hp limits. Comparing exact (identical parts and procedures between the two)
builds and which motor's closest to 500hp isn't a contest at all!!
OK so spend extra money on the 383 so you can get to 500 hp in the first place and still be down nearly 100 ft lbs of TQ 
no thanks.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How much for the 383?
shoot cant be worth much now!! they just said a 440 can out run it!!
i dono , got about 750$ in the block 1100$ in heads, el-cheapo cam 300$
so throw it away ,hahah lol, i'am so scared to bring it out now ,with all them there 440 s going to beat me up
It's ok, you can calm down; nobody said that 383's can't run strong or make over 500hp. What I (and others) DID say is that if you built a 440 the EXACT same way, it WIll make more power.....it's not an opinion, it's simple physics.....not that hard to figure out really.
Dave
Then I'll tell you this... DO not say the same exact way, but build BOTH to the 500 hp level!!
THAT'S EQUAL, since you have a set hp limits. Comparing exact (identical parts and procedures between the two)
builds and which motor's closest to 500hp isn't a contest at all!!
OK so spend extra money on the 383 so you can get to 500 hp in the first place and still be down nearly 100 ft lbs of TQ no thanks.
extra money, i dont think so
its the same money ,if youre building 500 hp weather its 383/440
i personal know of 4 engines close to me 2 or 440 2 are 383 block motors, the 383 out run those 440 same builds,
i also know of a 451 on a 400 plateform and a 452 on a 440 plateform
and the 400 plateform out runs that 440 by 4 tenths , in a car that is 100 # heavier,
so dont say its not cant be done oo by the way the 400 block was the cheaper build! same cam heads and comp ,
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 04:54 PM
Dwayne Porter made 504HP with a 383 +.030 with UNPORTED 906's and TRW flattop pistons with a CAST crank...
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 04:58 PM
Quote:
Dwayne Porter made 504HP with a 383 +.030 with UNPORTED 906's and TRW flattop pistons with a CAST crank...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 06:03 PM
Quote:
Dwayne Porter made 504HP with a 383 +.030 with UNPORTED 906's and TRW flattop pistons with a CAST crank...
And I bet he could make over 600 w/a 440...so what's your point?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 06:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Dwayne Porter made 504HP with a 383 +.030 with UNPORTED 906's and TRW flattop pistons with a CAST crank...
And I bet he could make over 600 w/a 440...so what's your point?
He has , it's in the archives.
I'm not getting into the pissing contest of bigger is always better , it's old and boring because it's always the same regurgitated 
and 
.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 07:39 PM
Quote:
extra money, i dont think so
its the same money ,if youre building 500 hp weather its 383/440
and THAT's where you're wrong; you can get the 383 to 500hp but you HAVE to spend more money to do it than you would with a 440. Just the way it is. SOMETHING has to be done to make up for the 57 cubic inches.
Dave
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 07:43 PM
Quote:
Comparing exact (identical parts and procedures between the two)
builds and which motor's closest to 500hp isn't a contest at all!!
I agree; it isn't a contest at all! 
, comparing exact (identical parts and procedures between the two) guarantees only one result: the 440 makes more power.......WHICH IS WHAT THE QUESTION WAS!!
Dave
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 07:45 PM
Quote:
Yes, the 440 may be cheaper to get to the 500hp level.
There you go! That's all you needed to say; the rest of the rhetoric is irrelevant to the original question.
Dave
Posted By: DCM71cuda
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/23/11 08:24 PM
....I bet now somebody will tell me that they can build a 340 and outrun a 360......
Quote:
....I bet now somebody will tell me that they can build a 340 and outrun a 360......
Posted By: 4boxers4
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/24/11 03:45 PM
Some humorous replies here.
First...alot depends upon what YOU want out of your application.
I have built both. Many parts are similar. The 375hp versus the 335hp factory rating(which HAS to be pretty accurate because of the way the gov't makes car companies validate their vehicles)...is self explanatory. 40 extra hp to start with just makes it easier(sorry, I live in a 'common sense' world). The 383 is a fine motor, make no mistake about it. It will also rev higher but high revs usually causes more wear on parts.
Posted By: bboogieart
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/24/11 03:48 PM
Quote:
Some humorous replies here.
(which HAS to be pretty accurate because of the way the gov't makes car companies validate their vehicles)...
Speaking of funny replies. You are kidding right.
Quote:
....I bet now somebody will tell me that they can build a 340 and outrun a 360......
LMAO. But I've built a 340 that outran a 383.
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/25/11 02:34 PM
Quote:
Quote:
....I bet now somebody will tell me that they can build a 340 and outrun a 360......
LMAO. But I've built a 340 that outran a 383.
________________________________________________________________
Well some people have built the bigger bore shorter stroke 340 that could outruns 360s. Mostly that was years ago before 340 parts because scarce. For sometime now parts and alternatives have been developed for 360s to produce more power. Its easier to find, purchase and build 360s than back in the 1970s.
As for the 383, Im simply not a fan of the power it produces. Yes it can produce power if stoked. But otherwise based on dollar for dollar money the 440 will produce more power. And I think this is especially true if your working on a working mans budget.
You have your 383 guys who will vehemently defend them and find the exceptions to the rule examples sure, but some would say they would rather stroke a 400 motor than a 383. This I cant speak about, perhaps someone else could address.
My 440 is making 580 hp & 600 ft tq with only 448 cid.!
Stock crank & rods with KB pistons. Where i get my power is the Indy heads and TTI headers & comp solid lift cam.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/25/11 02:56 PM
Quote:
My 440 is making 580 hp & 600 ft tq with only 448 cid.! Stock crank & rods with KB pistons. Where i get my power is the Indy heads and TTI headers & comp solid lift cam.
doubt the TTI headers give you any advantage over any other brand of header. But I'm with you I have a stock crank/stroke 440 w/ ported Stage VI heads and a comp 588 solid roller making around the same #'s...maybe a tad more.
Posted By: CompSyn
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/25/11 03:10 PM
Reading through this thread I found it consistent with past street racing around my area.
Yes, some folks whipped up on a 440 with their 383. Others whipped up on a 383 with their 340. Yep! In many instances, the 440 cleans house too.
This would seem to indicate that a well matched engine build, a balanced drive train, a fresh tune-up, and someone who knows how to drive their car can easily break the gap to any advantage 40-to-60 cubic inches can have.
But regardless of actual performance, the bragging rights the 440 yields always wins out simply because it’s the biggest passenger car production engine Chrysler built.
Bigger is always better, right!?!?
Posted By: BSB67
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/25/11 03:37 PM
Quote:
My 440 is making 580 hp & 600 ft tq with only 448 cid.! Stock crank & rods with KB pistons. Where i get my power is the Indy heads and TTI headers & comp solid lift cam.
Nice. What does it weigh, and what is the et and mph?
Everyone keeps talking about the bigger HP the 440 makes BUT it's the big TORQUE that moves a car better at a lower rpm that makes a 440 better.
Torque is king on the street. The short stroke 383 is more sensitive to its combo to really work, the 440 is more forgiving.
I know this is just rehashing most of the posts above but for a street bruiser with a set amount of money invested, and an equal build, in the engine the 440 will be the champ EVERY TIME.
EVEN is the engines make the same peak HP (which they wont)
Area under the curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Let's look at this from the TOP(end that is). Nothing like the HI-RPM scream (6000rpm or MORE) going thru the gears. Rev to the stratosphere. That's the 383, baby! Otherwise, YOU'RE just all "TORQUE" (talk)!! And YOUR basement door slams shut AT 5-6000rpm.
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Let's look at this from the TOP(end that is). Nothing like the HI-RPM scream (6000rpm or MORE) going thru the gears. Rev to the stratosphere. That's the 383, baby! Otherwise, YOU'RE just all "TORQUE" (talk)!! And YOUR basement door slams shut AT 5-6000rpm.
A 440 will be two car lengths ahead of the 383 before it even gets to 5000 RPM!
And LOTS of 440's are pulling strong well past 6000
Quote:
I know this is just rehashing most of the posts above but for a street bruiser with a set amount of money invested, and an equal build, in the engine the 440 will be the champ EVERY TIME.
EVEN is the engines make the same peak HP (which they wont)
Area under the curve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Contrary to your BELIEFS.... which HAVE some merit, SET COSTS are not part of this equation. YES, the 440 has MORE cubes which gives it a distinct COST advantage. There is less cash outlay and ingenuity to reach 500 hp. The 383, as I stated before, can reach this 500hp level, but due to the less cubes a "bit" more money spent in the right areas can net a VERY capable street/strip motor with great power. If it was a question of money spent or saved (main reason to go with the 440!!) then the 440 definitely GETS the nod. But
a 500hp 383 make cost a little more, but can net you excellent performance. You want to toss 'em
away, good, more for me to build and develop power on!!
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Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Let's look at this from the TOP(end that is). Nothing like the HI-RPM scream (6000rpm or MORE) going thru the gears. Rev to the stratosphere. That's the 383, baby! Otherwise, YOU'RE just all "TORQUE" (talk)!! And YOUR basement door slams shut AT 5-6000rpm.
A 440 will be two car lengths ahead of the 383 before it even gets to 5000 RPM!
And LOTS of 440's are pulling strong well past 6000
Are on the PIPE!! 
60-120 ft past the tree 383's have been known to hit 6000 (or better) rpm (gear depending) and "step out" on 440's in 2nd and 3rd gears. At the 660-1000 ft mark, a "good" lightweight 383 car WILL outleg a 440 car to the finish, driver depending. Your "2-car advantage" has been either eliminated or "switched around" to the 383 car at the finish!! 383's been campaigned in Super/Stock regularly back in the early 60 - mid 70's and turned rpms in excess of 7500 rpm, reliably! They also ran and still run brackets and Stock Eliminator classes. The "rage" of the newer engine technology, has allowed the onslaught of STROKER
motor combos to be MUCH stronger but at LOWER streetable rpms. Excellent technology and science by far, as well as being cheaper to build than a stout 383. As I said "440 is CHEAPER power, but not the CURE-ALL"!! Never any HATE, just a strong DEBATE!!
Quote:
Everyone keeps talking about the bigger HP the 440 makes BUT it's the big TORQUE that moves a car better at a lower rpm that makes a 440 better.
Torque is king on the street. The short stroke 383 is more sensitive to its combo to really work, the 440 is more forgiving.
with ya Dean on the torque issue ....but the MAIN question should have been which side of 4500 rpm you like your torque at!!
Quote:
Reading through this thread I found it consistent with past street racing around my area.
Yes, some folks whipped up on a 440 with their 383. Others whipped up on a 383 with their 340. Yep! In many instances, the 440 cleans house too.
This would seem to indicate that a well matched engine build, a balanced drive train, a fresh tune-up, and someone who knows how to drive their car can easily break the gap to any advantage 40-to-60 cubic inches can have.
But regardless of actual performance, the bragging rights the 440 yields always wins out simply because it’s the biggest passenger car production engine Chrysler built.
Bigger is always better, right!?!?
Bigger motor + less cash outlay to put in more power = winning strategy!! Nice formula!! But...
sometimes it's not, depends on how well ANY given combo is put together (parts matching and TUNING)!!
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/26/11 08:32 AM
I'd like to hear some good running 440 #s .
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/26/11 03:16 PM
Posted By: Fat_Mike
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 02:42 AM
Kinda hard to believe this is still a topic of conversation...
Well, there are a few who like to
on this topic, I guess. Can't do too much about that.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 04:41 AM
Quote:
Well, there are a few who like to on this topic, I guess. Can't do too much about that.
If that ain't the pot calling the Kettle black I don't know what is!
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 05:35 AM
This post is about what will do reall good burnouts on the street. I think we all agreed.
And Mr yuck your Charger is an extremely strong machine.
Posted By: nutso suave
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 06:00 AM
once you drive a 440 you're not going back to a 383.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 03:20 PM
Quote:
This post is about what will do reall good burnouts on the street. I think we all agreed.
And Mr yuck your Charger is an extremely strong machine.
thanks... hope to get the new trans in after vacation and see what it will run on an all-put hard pass.
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Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Let's look at this from the TOP(end that is). Nothing like the HI-RPM scream (6000rpm or MORE) going thru the gears. Rev to the stratosphere. That's the 383, baby! Otherwise, YOU'RE just all "TORQUE" (talk)!! And YOUR basement door slams shut AT 5-6000rpm.
A 440 will be two car lengths ahead of the 383 before it even gets to 5000 RPM!
And LOTS of 440's are pulling strong well past 6000
Are on the PIPE!! 60-120 ft past the tree 383's have been known to hit 6000 (or better) rpm (gear depending) and "step out" on 440's in 2nd and 3rd gears. At the 660-1000 ft mark, a "good" lightweight 383 car WILL outleg a 440 car to the finish, driver depending. Your "2-car advantage" has been either eliminated or "switched around" to the 383 car at the finish!! 383's been campaigned in Super/Stock regularly back in the early 60 - mid 70's and turned rpms in excess of 7500 rpm, reliably! They also ran and still run brackets and Stock Eliminator classes. The "rage" of the newer engine technology, has allowed the onslaught of STROKER
motor combos to be MUCH stronger but at LOWER streetable rpms. Excellent technology and science by far, as well as being cheaper to build than a stout 383. As I said "440 is CHEAPER power, but not the CURE-ALL"!! Never any HATE, just a strong DEBATE!!
There is no replacement for cubic inch displacement.
I was turning my 440 with self ported 906 heads above 7000 rpms back in the early 80's.
I would never consider a 383 over a 440. I have moved up to a hemi and would never go back to either.
But between the two the 440 is far superior.
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/27/11 10:27 PM
Some people wont give it up. Whats next, guys "swearing" they have a low compression 318 that will out torque, outrun, and manhandle all 440s out there. LOL.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 02:10 AM
I'm sure there will be some out there.
There's one at our track, its a tough little motor....
440s are just plain fun to beat. I kind of enjoyed roasting my buddies 69 440 cuda this weekend. Not by alot, mind you, but the #'s don't lie.
seems to me these posts just end up being a big pissing match (my dad can beat up your dad kind of thing). Seems to me the people could just give the facts of their personal combination-and let the original poster decide what best suits his needs/budget
Posted By: d-150
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 02:45 AM
simple,no substitute for cubic inch .
Quote:
Quote:
Well, there are a few who like to on this topic, I guess. Can't do too much about that.
If that ain't the pot calling the Kettle black I don't know what is!
I guess you've been the pot..err.um..stirring the pot for so long now, you're expecting some sort of compensation or wage..hmm. Here's YOUR for starters!!
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Nothing like BB low end grunt rumpity rump. From the basement. 440. Otherwise you're just "explaining.
Let's look at this from the TOP(end that is). Nothing like the HI-RPM scream (6000rpm or MORE) going thru the gears. Rev to the stratosphere. That's the 383, baby! Otherwise, YOU'RE just all "TORQUE" (talk)!! And YOUR basement door slams shut AT 5-6000rpm.
A 440 will be two car lengths ahead of the 383 before it even gets to 5000 RPM!
And LOTS of 440's are pulling strong well past 6000
Are on the PIPE!! 60-120 ft past the tree 383's have been known to hit 6000 (or better) rpm (gear depending) and "step out" on 440's in 2nd and 3rd gears. At the 660-1000 ft mark, a "good" lightweight 383 car WILL outleg a 440 car to the finish, driver depending. Your "2-car advantage" has been either eliminated or "switched around" to the 383 car at the finish!! 383's been campaigned in Super/Stock regularly back in the early 60 - mid 70's and turned rpms in excess of 7500 rpm, reliably! They also ran and still run brackets and Stock Eliminator classes. The "rage" of the newer engine technology, has allowed the onslaught of STROKER
motor combos to be MUCH stronger but at LOWER streetable rpms. Excellent technology and science by far, as well as being cheaper to build than a stout 383. As I said "440 is CHEAPER power, but not the CURE-ALL"!! Never any HATE, just a strong DEBATE!!
There is no replacement for cubic inch displacement.
I was turning my 440 with self ported 906 heads above 7000 rpms back in the early 80's.
I would never consider a 383 over a 440. I have moved up to a hemi and would never go back to either.
But between the two the 440 is far superior.
Good for you, and I respect your opinion.
I love the underdog motors, that's MY opinion!
Quote:
seems to me these posts just end up being a big pissing match (my dad can beat up your dad kind of thing). Seems to me the people could just give the facts of their personal combination-and let the original poster decide what best suits his needs/budget
Good advice!!
Quote:
once you drive a 440 you're not going back to a 383.
Drove a couple, liked them a LOT but still LOVE the 383
more!!
Posted By: Fat_Mike
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 03:02 AM
Lets go back to the OP's question:
Quote:
WHICH IS BETTER TO BUILD FOR A STREETABLE APPLICATION ON PUMP GAS BUT CAN STILL TEAR UP THE STREETS?
Clearly both "can tear up the streets." But he's not building a vehicle around a motor (which is irrelavent anyway), so forget about body weight and all the other speculative responses. Yeah, sure there are plenty of well built 383's that can beat up on lesser built 440's. But as said above, with COMPARABLY BUILT MOTORS, a 440 will always out perform its little brother...the 383. No?
Posted By: Mike H
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 03:40 AM
No substitute for cubic inches? Reminds me of a guy I worked with back in the 60's. Took a hi-po 273 that he somehow got to turn 9800 rpm, and stuck it in his 64 Dart 4-speed with 6.17 gears. Nobody could touch this thing. That car was a blast.
I would probably build the 383, for psychological reasons only. It seems half the new cars out there run low 13's right off the showroom floor, with the a/c on. You wouldn't feel as bad losing to a new CTS if you "just" had a 383.
Posted By: 72N96RR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:21 AM
I just base my opinion on experience as a younger man..I had a 72 Road Runner with a 400 4 speed in it back in 1979...EVERY and I mean EVERY 383 I ran against was no match for my car..Especially in a Charger body...Then one day I went up against a 68 Road Runner with a 440 and we left even but that dang car acually lifted up both front and back and launched like it was shot from a gun...I was amazed...Another car that smoked me was a Torino with a 428 that could smoke the hides at 40mph...Cool memories as a kid...But all those races left a bad taste for anything with a 383...In a Dart maybe but thats about it...Gimme the 440...
The 72 RR/GTX I have now has some seriously sweet stock power..From a 5 mph roll I can stab it to the floor and it will roast em on into second gear until I let off..I love these old cars..
Posted By: 72N96RR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:24 AM
Quote:
400 block, stoker kit ,make 500 cci,
street/race, lighter block, be had cheap,
set rpm heads, mid to low 11s, could be able run in the 10 without whole lot work,
jmo
Thats a seriously cool set up but you are talking what,, 8 to 10 grand to buid it right???
And the OP wants 500 hp from his motor which will be a whole lot easier to achieve from the 440 than the 383 and cheaper too..IMO...
Posted By: 4boxers4
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:29 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Some humorous replies here.
(which HAS to be pretty accurate because of the way the gov't makes car companies validate their vehicles)...
Speaking of funny replies. You are kidding right.
No...it's actually alot of work to certify a car in the real world. I work for an OEM and am somewhat familiar with that activity. I know what we do in the dyno rooms as well. It is really unbelieveable to what length your data has to be accurate, for alot of reasons.
Maybe my response sounded like I was dependant on the gov't but that needs clarified. The OEM has to be very accurate with their data so a statement like 'it's hp was overrated intentionally' is somewhat unbelieveable to me because of the ramifications against the OEM from class actions etc
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 02:54 PM
Quote:
I'm sure there will be some out there.
There's one at our track, its a tough little motor....
440s are just plain fun to beat. I kind of enjoyed roasting my buddies 69 440 cuda this weekend. Not by alot, mind you, but the #'s don't lie.
and how much more do you have in your 383? What is the rest of the set-up? yours and his? apples and oranges. Nothing better than putting a Small block talker on the trailer w/ his "giant killer"
LOL, lots of swelled heads on this post. Everyone's combo and driving ability is so different that practically everything is apples to oranges. Arguments like this are pointless nowadays.
I like putting big blocks on the trailer too, especially ones that should have whooped me with their aluminum heads and massive displacement. I know of a slant six with a turbo that has put several big and small blocks to shame.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I'm sure there will be some out there.
There's one at our track, its a tough little motor....
440s are just plain fun to beat. I kind of enjoyed roasting my buddies 69 440 cuda this weekend. Not by alot, mind you, but the #'s don't lie.
and how much more do you have in your 383? What is the rest of the set-up? yours and his? apples and oranges. Nothing better than putting a Small block talker on the trailer w/ his "giant killer"
Flat tappet cams, alum heads (within few cfm, same bench) same pistons, same carb, ......
He has glass frontend, no aprons, little car. Mine is all factory steel, at least 400 lbs more. I found some issues with mine too, I'm barely getting 3rd gear with my bigger tires. It goes thru at 5900~ 6000, and I only make power between 6 and 7. I mean it bogs at 5 grand on gear change. I think a 5.13 should be in order.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:10 PM
Quote:
Nothing better than putting a Small block talker on the trailer w/ his "giant killer"
Funny thing is, its smaller than most small blocks these days... Its in its "own class"
I believe the fastest 383 cuda stocker was Dave Wrens at 9.70.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 04:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing better than putting a Small block talker on the trailer w/ his "giant killer"
Funny thing is, its smaller than most small blocks these days... Its in its "own class"
I believe the fastest 383 cuda stocker was Dave Wrens at 9.70.
I hear that... 440ci is small these days
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 05:12 PM
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/28/11 05:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Some humorous replies here.
(which HAS to be pretty accurate because of the way the gov't makes car companies validate their vehicles)...
Speaking of funny replies. You are kidding right.
No...it's actually alot of work to certify a car in the real world. I work for an OEM and am somewhat familiar with that activity. I know what we do in the dyno rooms as well. It is really unbelieveable to what length your data has to be accurate, for alot of reasons.
Maybe my response sounded like I was dependant on the gov't but that needs clarified. The OEM has to be very accurate with their data so a statement like 'it's hp was overrated intentionally' is somewhat unbelieveable to me because of the ramifications against the OEM from class actions etc
That was then and this is now. Back in the '60's, it was common to underrate motors for a variety of reasons including corporate rules, insurance, etc. There are dozens of examples.
....that is unless you believe a 455 Stage I Buick really only had 360hp or a 455 W30 had 5hp over the base 442 engine, or an L88 427 only had 5hp over an L72 or a 428SCJ really only had the same hp as a 383, or......well you get the point (or I hope you do, anyway! )
Dave
To make the motors competative at the same hp level you have to allow for weight. At 383 at 500
hp is not going to have the "grunt" at the low end of the dial. However, the 440 ISN'T going to buzz to nearly 6800 rpm to make it's 500, either.
My point is that they are both capable, but with the HEAVIER weight of the cars the motors are being put in, the 440 with its' torque moves the mass much better. On average, for example, 440's are usually in chassis of 3700-4400Lbs (mostly B-bodies), with the "all-outs" BELOW 3600 total weight. That still doesn't make it better, just an EASIER choice to build for street usage.
Clearly both "can tear up the streets." But he's not building a vehicle around a motor (which is irrelavent anyway), so forget about body weight and all the other speculative responses. Yeah, sure there are plenty of well built 383's that can beat up on lesser built 440's. But as said above, with COMPARABLY BUILT MOTORS, a 440 will always out perform its little brother...the 383. No?
Sure it would! Equal parts, tuning and SAME chassis and a 57 cube advantage - VERY unfair, but an advantage. For sake of equality, trade off
57 cubes for 570 pounds LESS total car weight w/383 and the comparison just got a lot closer!! 440's are better to put into a mid to HEAVY chassis due to the torque they produce.
Posted By: 4boxers4
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/30/11 03:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Some humorous replies here.
(which HAS to be pretty accurate because of the way the gov't makes car companies validate their vehicles)...
Speaking of funny replies. You are kidding right.
No...it's actually alot of work to certify a car in the real world. I work for an OEM and am somewhat familiar with that activity. I know what we do in the dyno rooms as well. It is really unbelieveable to what length your data has to be accurate, for alot of reasons.
Maybe my response sounded like I was dependant on the gov't but that needs clarified. The OEM has to be very accurate with their data so a statement like 'it's hp was overrated intentionally' is somewhat unbelieveable to me because of the ramifications against the OEM from class actions etc
That was then and this is now. Back in the '60's, it was common to underrate motors for a variety of reasons including corporate rules, insurance, etc. There are dozens of examples.
....that is unless you believe a 455 Stage I Buick really only had 360hp or a 455 W30 had 5hp over the base 442 engine, or an L88 427 only had 5hp over an L72 or a 428SCJ really only had the same hp as a 383, or......well you get the point (or I hope you do, anyway! )
Dave
I am not that familiar with those motors or ratings as I have been absorbed in Chrysler products for 30 years so I will take your word that those ratings may seem suspicious. What I do understand is that alot of stories about how OEM's work vs actual situations is also inflated greatly, whether then or now. I have heard alot about ratings inflated and deflated but I have also seen dyno reports showing those very engines to be awful darn close to advertised. Since I am a data driven individual, I am usually forced to be somewhat skeptical until I see some provided to lend credence to that disparity. Again, I am not trying to be a jerk, and your opinion is valued...I just tend to want to see supporting info if someone feels the factory rating was disingenuous. Thanks for the input.
Posted By: forphorty
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/30/11 04:55 AM
Quote:
Clearly both "can tear up the streets." But he's not building a vehicle around a motor (which is irrelavent anyway), so forget about body weight and all the other speculative responses. Yeah, sure there are plenty of well built 383's that can beat up on lesser built 440's. But as said above, with COMPARABLY BUILT MOTORS, a 440 will always out perform its little brother...the 383. No?
Sure it would! Equal parts, tuning and SAME chassis and a 57 cube advantage - VERY unfair, but an advantage. For sake of equality, trade off
57 cubes for 570 pounds LESS total car weight w/383 and the comparison just got a lot closer!! 440's are better to put into a mid to HEAVY chassis due to the torque they produce.
Why does your 383 car get to weigh 570 pounds less? Maybe a 225 slant 6 in a 1700 pound roadster would be better? 383s typically get better fuel economy than 440s. If that is important to you, then maybe a 383 makes sense. People have their preferences for a variety of reasons; underdog status, sentimental value, nostalgia, etc. Looking at it practically, if the choice is between two engines within the same family (yeah i know, ones a B and the other is an RB) the one with 57 more cubes offers much more bang for the buck. It may take a lot of money spent on that 383 to make up for its displacement disadvantage. The old adage goes " The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars or light weight".
Posted By: 1OFNONE
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/30/11 05:21 AM
"Tearing it up on the streets was the quote, Correct ?
If a guy wants to tear it up on the streets it doesent matter how much horsepower or cost of the build is. Its traction.
Want to blow the tires off ? or fry them for an 1/8th mile yet drive on the interstate at 75 mph all day long ? 440
IMO truely to many variables from money available to car weight, gear and tire size.
Honestly, I feel bang for the buck is 440. But to be different and like to hear RPM ? 383 but you will need gear and converter to do the 383 which costs drivability.
My opinion only.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/30/11 06:10 PM
Quote:
I am not that familiar with those motors or ratings as I have been absorbed in Chrysler products for 30 years so I will take your word that those ratings may seem suspicious.
Thanks! I could come up with a dozen other examples off the top of my head as incorrect ratings were VERY common during the musclecar era.
For example; a 370hp RAIV having only 4hp more than a 366hp RAIII, the fact that the RAII was rated at less hp in a firebird than it was in a GTO. There are several corvette engines rated higher than the IDENTICAL engines in other cars (450hp '66 L72's, 425hp 396 L78's). Many fullsize cars recieved higher HP ratings for the same engines such as the W34 Toronado's 400hp vs. the W30 442's identical engine at 370hp......I could go on.....
....as far as Chrysler products go; any thoughts on why a 426 crate engine with less compression is rated at 465hp compared to the street hemi's 425hp? Why can a Hemi run or beat a 450hp LS6 Chevelle?
GM had a corporate rule about not having a rating of more than 1 hp per 10 lbs of car; the corvette was exempt and for some reason they threw that out the window in 1970 with the Chevelle although Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile still toed the line with ratings all under 400hp despite having very similar performance to the Chevelle.
Dave
Quote:
Quote:
Clearly both "can tear up the streets." But he's not building a vehicle around a motor (which is irrelavent anyway), so forget about body weight and all the other speculative responses. Yeah, sure there are plenty of well built 383's that can beat up on lesser built 440's. But as said above, with COMPARABLY BUILT MOTORS, a 440 will always out perform its little brother...the 383. No?
Sure it would! Equal parts, tuning and SAME chassis and a 57 cube advantage - VERY unfair, but an advantage. For sake of equality, trade off
57 cubes for 570 pounds LESS total car weight w/383 and the comparison just got a lot closer!! 440's are better to put into a mid to HEAVY chassis due to the torque they produce.
Why does your 383 car get to weigh 570 pounds less? Maybe a 225 slant 6 in a 1700 pound roadster would be better? 383s typically get better fuel economy than 440s. If that is important to you, then maybe a 383 makes sense. People have their preferences for a variety of reasons; underdog status, sentimental value, nostalgia, etc. Looking at it practically, if the choice is between two engines within the same family (yeah i know, ones a B and the other is an RB) the one with 57 more cubes offers much more bang for the buck. It may take a lot of money spent on that 383 to make up for its displacement disadvantage. The old adage goes " The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars or light weight".
Thanks for your post. It's what I have been saying all along. 440's are cheaper to build, but not neccessarily the better motor. ANY
motor can be made to run WELL, it's just a matter of preference and how much money you're willing to SPEND, as well as the chassis it's going in. FWIW, 383's have very little low end torque to move an average B-body as well as 440 would, hence the 383 NEEDS gears and some weight trimming to equal the performance. Smaller motors -lighter weighted cars, for example: 340 Dusters, Demons, Swingers and Darts.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 06/30/11 10:25 PM
Thanks for your post.
It's what I have been saying all along. 440's are cheaper to build, but not neccessarily the better motor. ANY
motor can be made to run WELL, it's just a matter of preference and how much money you're willing to SPEND, as well as the chassis it's going in. FWIW, 383's have very little low end torque to move an average B-body as well as 440 would, hence the 383 NEEDS gears and some weight trimming to equal the performance. Smaller motors -lighter weighted cars, for example: 340 Dusters, Demons, Swingers and Darts.
blah blah blah,,,, a 440 in a dart will beat the drum out of an equally preped 340. A mild 383 in a 3800lb b-body w/ 3.91 gears will run mid 13's at best. The same 440 build will have you well into the 12's. Have had both and done both. I'd NEVER do a SB or 383 in a B-body. Even if it came w/ a "400hp" SB.
blah blah blah,,,, a 440 in a dart will beat the drum out of an equally preped 340. A mild 383 in a 3800lb b-body w/ 3.91 gears will run mid 13's at best. The same 440 build will have you well into the 12's. Have had both and done both. I'd NEVER do a SB or 383 in a B-body. Even if it came w/ a "400hp" SB.
400hp SB? Like a Chebbie?
A. If you can get past the TRACTION PROBLEMS.
B. Everybody knows that a "mild" 383 and a 12sec 440 are two dissimilar motors.
C. It's GOOD that you have "stepped up" to a 500 cube - 440 based combo for your 70' Charger. Definitely NOT putting it down and it does run really HARD. If I had a CHOICE for that body style and car weight, I would setup the SAME
way and maybe add a few more pony-inducing items on it!!
D. 440 Darts were/are kinda hard to hook, without traction aids, so I don't think a 340 would have problems with it from the tree. It may be close after the 660 but 340's ARE capable of handing 440's a beatdown. FWIW, I DID get 
by a few strong 340's and the same ones even whooped upon some 383's. Never knocked the "smaller" motor since I didn't know what they were carrying!
E. with ya on the SB or 383 in a B-Body,
But I'd chance a 383 in a "stripper" B-chassis or
a good A-body. Hands down, 340's are BEST (ok, dustergirl, you can stop jumpin' ) in the A-Body for street/strip. 
3800lbs is kinda heavy for a 383 to push around, I would go no higher than 3500-3600 (incl. driver) absoulute! 3800lbs, is right for a "warm" 440. Just my own opinions said out loud!!
Quote:
Hands down, 340's are BEST (ok, dustergirl, you can stop jumpin' )
I agree! (Okay, I'll stop jumping now )
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/01/11 01:29 AM
Quote:
blah blah blah,,,, a 440 in a dart will beat the drum out of an equally preped 340. A mild 383 in a 3800lb b-body w/ 3.91 gears will run mid 13's at best. The same 440 build will have you well into the 12's. Have had both and done both. I'd NEVER do a SB or 383 in a B-body. Even if it came w/ a "400hp" SB.
400hp SB? Like a Chebbie?
A. If you can get past the TRACTION PROBLEMS.
B. Everybody knows that a "mild" 383 and a 12sec 440 are two dissimilar motors.
C. It's GOOD that you have "stepped up" to a 500 cube - 440 based combo for your 70' Charger. Definitely NOT putting it down and it does run really HARD. If I had a CHOICE for that body style and car weight, I would setup the SAME
way and maybe add a few more pony-inducing items on it!!
D. 440 Darts were/are kinda hard to hook, without traction aids, so I don't think a 340 would have problems with it from the tree. It may be close after the 660 but 340's ARE capable of handing 440's a beatdown. FWIW, I DID get
by a few strong 340's and the same ones even whooped upon some 383's. Never knocked the "smaller" motor since I didn't know what they were carrying!
E. with ya on the SB or 383 in a B-Body,
But I'd chance a 383 in a "stripper" B-chassis or
a good A-body. Hands down, 340's are BEST (ok, dustergirl, you can stop jumpin' ) in the A-Body for street/strip.
3800lbs is kinda heavy for a 383 to push around, I would go no higher than 3500-3600 (incl. driver) absoulute! 3800lbs, is right for a "warm" 440. Just my own opinions said out loud!!
again a 440 any-body will walk a 340 any-body. I said it outloud.
$ for $ I'll give you 2 lights. both can be fast however if you are starting from square 1 and one guy/gal has a 440 mill and one has a 340 and both spend the same amount of money/buy the same parts...the 440 will ALWAYS win. (1/4 mile anyway)
I spent $1,800 on my 340 including the purchase price and ran a 12.40, so I'm happy with that, lol.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/01/11 03:44 AM
Quote:
I spent $1,800 on my 340 including the purchase price and ran a 12.40, so I'm happy with that, lol.
GOOD DEAL!
again a 440 any-body will walk a 340 any-body. I said it outloud.
I care to diagree!! Lighter bodies + loads of low end torque (440) = bad 60ft times/traction problems, UNLESS you have a GOOD chassis setup!!
Not enough top end hp/too much low midrange (440),
340 WILL out-leg it!!
$ for $ I'll give you 2 lights.
I wouldn't race against YOUR car with 2 lights (lengths) start in a 340, it be a SLAUGHTER match, unless I'm running a "stroker 408 or larger" SB motor.
both can be fast however if you are starting from square 1 and one guy/gal has a 440 mill and one has a 340 and both spend the same amount of money/buy the same parts...the 440 will ALWAYS win. (1/4 mile anyway)
Parts wise and expense, 440 gets the nod, not as much for power output/chassis weight comparisons.
Again, depends on the chassis they are in for the race to be fair!! Go by power to weight
figures, say 10 to 1 for both. 375/440 should be in 3750lb B-body (approx), while the 275(335 actual hp approx.)/340 should be in a 3350lb A-body (approx). Makes sense to me!!
Hey, uh, is this 383-440 thread,
gonna go as many pages as the girls love the mopars thread?.....before it goes away?
Quote:
Hey, uh, is this 383-440 thread, gonna go as many pages as the girls love the mopars thread?.....before it goes away?
Well..um..we can always RESURRECT the 413 vs 440
thread if you want...!!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/04/11 02:37 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Hey, uh, is this 383-440 thread, gonna go as many pages as the girls love the mopars thread?.....before it goes away?
Well..um..we can always RESURRECT the 413 vs 440
thread if you want...!!
what about 440 vs HEMI? $ for $ of course.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hey, uh, is this 383-440 thread, gonna go as many pages as the girls love the mopars thread?.....before it goes away?
Well..um..we can always RESURRECT the 413 vs 440
thread if you want...!!
what about 440 vs HEMI? $ for $ of course.
OH..YEAH!! 
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/05/11 09:56 PM
Quote:
again a 440 any-body will walk a 340 any-body. I said it outloud.
Thats about a def-con 4...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/06/11 12:52 AM
Quote:
Quote:
again a 440 any-body will walk a 340 any-body. I said it outloud.
Thats about a def-con 4... [/quote
lol but so very true. any body want to take me up on it? build one of those 340's for 5k (about what I have in my heap) toss it in a 3900 b-body and lets go. all throttle no bottle.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/06/11 01:30 AM
I'm sure theres cheap fast goodies at .25c on the dollar for small blocks too.
I just got back from the 50,000 shootout in medicine hat Ab... Don't recall any 440s that hung on past the 1/8 mile with me.
But I only ran 21 passes. There could have been one lurking...
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/06/11 02:24 AM
Quote:
I'm sure theres cheap fast goodies at .25c on the dollar for small blocks too.
I just got back from the 50,000 shootout in medicine hat Ab... Don't recall any 440s that hung on past the 1/8 mile with me.
But I only ran 21 passes. There could have been one lurking...
only reason mines at 5k is because I spent $2100 on the six-pack. A big single 4 would run batter and be cheaper but they are near as coooooool. 383's don't even work until the 1/8th...lol
Must have been a "near" stocker (Magnum) with long legs (Highway gears).
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
again a 440 any-body will walk a 340 any-body. I said it outloud.
Thats about a def-con 4... [/quote
lol but so very true. any body want to take me up on it? build one of those 340's for 5k (about what I have in my heap) toss it in a 3900 b-body and lets go. all throttle no bottle.
Um..3900 lbs and a 340? Not promising, at all!!
Good way to wear the block out pushing unneccessary weight!!
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/07/11 08:01 AM
Well ive tried not to
but since you BB guys cant agree one one thing while your trying to figure out how to make a tiny 3.75 stroke 440 motor work in the 11-s 12-s us 4 inch plus small block stroker guys are in the 9s-10s all day running less bobweight, less head flow and more rpm.
So when you get it figured out let us small block guys know...im easily found in Denver if anyone needs schooled, by an F-body none the less.
Looks like only the green six pack charger is doing well
As far as the weight issues, some f-body cars weigh 3800, some 3200
Just because some like the fat chicks of the mopar world, dont pawn them off on others.
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/07/11 08:17 PM
Quote:
Well ive tried not to but since you BB guys cant agree one one thing while your trying to figure out how to make a tiny 3.75 stroke 440 motor work in the 11-s 12-s us 4 inch plus small block stroker guys are in the 9s-10s all day running less bobweight, less head flow and more rpm.
So when you get it figured out let us small block guys know...im easily found in Denver if anyone needs schooled, by an F-body none the less.
Looks like only the green six pack charger is doing well
As far as the weight issues, some f-body cars weigh 3800, some 3200 Just because some like the fat chicks of the mopar world, dont pawn them off on others.
You're going to have to knock the dust off your old 340 crank to get in on this discussion..
Stroker big blocks can run 9s, 10s too.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/07/11 09:03 PM
I can't believe my {censored] is bigger/better than yours is still going on .
Wait , this is moparts ... yes I can ....
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/07/11 09:05 PM
Quote:
Well ive tried not to but since you BB guys cant agree one one thing while your trying to figure out how to make a tiny 3.75 stroke 440 motor work in the 11-s 12-s us 4 inch plus small block stroker guys are in the 9s-10s all day running less bobweight, less head flow and more rpm.
So when you get it figured out let us small block guys know...im easily found in Denver if anyone needs schooled, by an F-body none the less.
Looks like only the green six pack charger is doing well
As far as the weight issues, some f-body cars weigh 3800, some 3200 Just because some like the fat chicks of the mopar world, dont pawn them off on others.
fat chicks are fun.
but....drop a stroked BB in an a-body and they run 8's and 9's. You aren't talking same $ for $ son.
Posted By: d-150
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/07/11 09:17 PM
there is some small blocks 9 10 seconds. there is alot of big blocks doing 6 and 7sec.
Quote:
Quote:
Well ive tried not to but since you BB guys cant agree one one thing while your trying to figure out how to make a tiny 3.75 stroke 440 motor work in the 11-s 12-s us 4 inch plus small block stroker guys are in the 9s-10s all day running less bobweight, less head flow and more rpm.
So when you get it figured out let us small block guys know...im easily found in Denver if anyone needs schooled, by an F-body none the less.
Looks like only the green six pack charger is doing well
As far as the weight issues, some f-body cars weigh 3800, some 3200 Just because some like the fat chicks of the mopar world, dont pawn them off on others.
fat chicks are fun.
BBW's need lovin' too, ya know!!
but....drop a stroked BB in an a-body and they run 8's and 9's. You aren't talking same $ for $ son.
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/08/11 04:21 AM
Yep $ for $ its the BB, Im just
a bit. Ive alot in my 2 stage six pack spray motor, and overall alot in all my small strokers, could have a hell of a BB stroker for equal money and dont think its not been tempting.
But honestly it would have to be a BB stroker, but on a budget or lookng back on the late 70-s early 80s, you were Bob G. if you could pop 11s or 12s in a bias tired 440 car.
Posted By: DusterKrazy
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/08/11 05:02 AM
The easiest and cheapest route to 500hp will be the 440 hands down.
But as far as a 440 ALWAYS outrunning a 383? No way. 383's can be had cheap which is appealing to poor people like me.
To many variables. Vehicle weight,gears, and the most important part to factor in is the overall engine combination. A well thought out 383 is very capable of taking down a 440 that's using a crappy selection of parts. I like both but I have a soft spot for the 383. A 383 with Indy heads can be down right nasty fast. Some disadvantages include lower torque and more expensive pistons. Block strength? 383 or 400 for the win hands down...
For a lighter vehicle, I'd have no problem with using a 383 at all.
A nicely tinkered 383 in an a body is too much fun but for the amount of headache and expense to swap in, I'd just go with a small block. Sometimes I like to build a smaller engine just to see what I can get out of it
Some people are stuck in the past. Newsflash!! Performance parts have come a very long way since the '70's. I am a nostalgia buff and I will gladly admit that. There are great cams,intakes and anything else you can think of being made now. Take the 340 vs. 360 debate for example. Stock for stock, the 340 WAS a better performance engine. Today the 360 will get the job done cheaper and better (again combination and YMMV factored in!) . I hear so many older people talk about how crappy the 360 is. Whatever. Just like the 440, more cubes and more torque equals the old saying "cubic inches or cubic dollars".
Yes, it's only 20 extra cubes but it makes a difference in the end.
I mean with today's parts you can make a 318 haul booty. Build what you have and never be afraid of learning something new. There is nothing like knowledge to make power
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Well ive tried not to but since you BB guys cant agree one one thing while your trying to figure out how to make a tiny 3.75 stroke 440 motor work in the 11-s 12-s us 4 inch plus small block stroker guys are in the 9s-10s all day running less bobweight, less head flow and more rpm.
Well you've ALREADY and it's starting to bubble!! 3.75 inch, tiny, by YOUR standards I guess. LEGENDARY MOTORS were built utilizing this stroke length, so now that 4 inch
strokes are the rage, are we supposed to be in awe, now? I don't think so. Stroker motors are a blessing, since they produce "full race type" power at below 6500 rpm, instead of 7 to 8000 rpms. BIG PLUS, they are EXTREMELY streetable (unless you are running class). Stroker small blocks DO make a great deal of power, just as stroker big blocks do, BUT given an EQUAL, LIGHTWEIGHT chassis, the comparison could be VERY close IF both motors are nearly close in power output, not neccesarily in engine size. One motor could have a large bore, moderate stroke and have a similar output as a moderate bore, longer stroke
combo. It would be the rpms of peak torque and hp that would tell the tale of winning on the street vs. winning on the track.
Quote:
The easiest and cheapest route to 500hp will be the 440 hands down.
But as far as a 440 ALWAYS outrunning a 383? No way. 383's can be had cheap which is appealing to poor people like me.
To many variables. Vehicle weight,gears, and the most important part to factor in is the overall engine combination. A well thought out 383 is very capable of taking down a 440 that's using a crappy selection of parts. I like both but I have a soft spot for the 383. A 383 with Indy heads can be down right nasty fast. Some disadvantages include lower torque and more expensive pistons. Block strength? 383 or 400 for the win hands down...
For a lighter vehicle, I'd have no problem with using a 383 at all.
A nicely tinkered 383 in an a body is too much fun but for the amount of headache and expense to swap in, I'd just go with a small block. Sometimes I like to build a smaller engine just to see what I can get out of it
Some people are stuck in the past. Newsflash!! Performance parts have come a very long way since the '70's. I am a nostalgia buff and I will gladly admit that. There are great cams,intakes and anything else you can think of being made now. Take the 340 vs. 360 debate for example. Stock for stock, the 340 WAS a better performance engine. Today the 360 will get the job done cheaper and better (again combination and YMMV factored in!) . I hear so many older people talk about how crappy the 360 is. Whatever. Just like the 440, more cubes and more torque equals the old saying "cubic inches or cubic dollars".
Yes, it's only 20 extra cubes but it makes a difference in the end.
I mean with today's parts you can make a 318 haul booty. Build what you have and never be afraid of learning something new. There is nothing like knowledge to make power
100% with ya!!
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/08/11 05:23 AM
Some small block strokers are very close to being squared, some consider a very good thing for a dual purpose car.
Im working on a 3.97x4.00 small block now,my 410 at 4.04x4.00. ect..
I dont know how that compares to the BB strokers but with some of the results of even the source kits, which seem priced decent are doing good things and crazy tq numbers.
Sorry to go off track a bit, most my BB cars were long long ago. But id do one if I could pop for a proper bb tranny.
Quote:
The easiest and cheapest route to 500hp will be the 440 hands down.
But as far as a 440 ALWAYS outrunning a 383? No way. 383's can be had cheap which is appealing to poor people like me.
To many variables. Vehicle weight,gears, and the most important part to factor in is the overall engine combination. A well thought out 383 is very capable of taking down a 440 that's using a crappy selection of parts. I like both but I have a soft spot for the 383. A 383 with Indy heads can be down right nasty fast. Some disadvantages include lower torque and more expensive pistons. Block strength? 383 or 400 for the win hands down...
For a lighter vehicle, I'd have no problem with using a 383 at all.
A nicely tinkered 383 in an a body is too much fun but for the amount of headache and expense to swap in, I'd just go with a small block. Sometimes I like to build a smaller engine just to see what I can get out of it
Some people are stuck in the past. Newsflash!! Performance parts have come a very long way since the '70's. I am a nostalgia buff and I will gladly admit that. There are great cams,intakes and anything else you can think of being made now. Take the 340 vs. 360 debate for example. Stock for stock, the 340 WAS a better performance engine. Today the 360 will get the job done cheaper and better (again combination and YMMV factored in!) . I hear so many older people talk about how crappy the 360 is. Whatever. Just like the 440, more cubes and more torque equals the old saying "cubic inches or cubic dollars".
Yes, it's only 20 extra cubes but it makes a difference in the end.
I mean with today's parts you can make a 318 haul booty. Build what you have and never be afraid of learning something new. There is nothing like knowledge to make power
Exactly!!
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/11/11 08:18 PM
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Posted By: Junky
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/12/11 12:45 AM
Quote:
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Posted By: ireland383
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/12/11 01:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/12/11 04:23 PM
Quote:
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Good for you! I saw a VW beetle outrun a 383 Charger a couple of weekends back at the strip in Ashcroft.....not sure what that proves about the superiority of VW beetles, though.
Dave
Quote:
Quote:
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Good for you! I saw a VW beetle outrun a 383 Charger a couple of weekends back at the strip in Ashcroft.....not sure what that proves about the superiority of VW beetles, though.
Dave
Wait.. didn't the 440 guys bring up the superiority issues!! 383's ARE capable, NEVER underestimate them!!
Must of gotten a MINDSET from watching "Herbie - Fully Loaded"..or..someone did some SERIOUS tricks
on that Porsche..OOPS, I mean.. VW flat four!
Quote:
WHICH IS BETTER TO BUILD FOR A STREETABLE APPLICATION ON PUMP GAS BUT CAN STILL TEAR UP THE STREETS?
I'M HOPING TO BE AROUND 500HP ON PUMP GAS.
COULD YOU GIVE REASONS FOR YOUR CHOICE PLS.
if you can get or have either block and its not outrageously more than the other do the 440 its always gonna have more HP with the same build thrown at it as the 383 and the parts will cost the same as will the machine work or what ever...Only time I do the 383 is when im trying to feel/be nostalgic or its #'s matching or I just wanted to be "correct" like say in a 68/69 RoadRunner rebuild id probably use a 383(or do a 440 six pack)...othe than doing something like that or a 383 or 400 stroker do the 440 if you have the block.
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/13/11 04:04 AM
Heavy car? Go with the 440. My combo in my pickup is a 440 bored .030". KB hyper flat top pistons that come out about .007-.009". TQ 50 Erson cam (was given to me) Hand ported 452 casting heads that flowed approximately 275 cfm @ .550" on the intake, can't remember exhaust. Torker II intake, 1.6 rockers, stock crank and rods and it made 485 hp and 506 tq. I've weighed both 400 and 440 blocks and haven't come up with more than maybe 20 lbs difference, so the weight argument doesn't really hold water in my opinion. Now if you're going to stroke it, go 383 and 4.25 crank and tell everyone it's a 383. Torque makes it "feel" fast and it'll spin tires a lot and make everyone think you're awesome. JMO.
hypothetical example...two core motors 1) 383 and 2) a 440 both have steel crank.
to do a budget rebuild (reuse block, crank, rods, heads)...assume new rings, brearings, came, intake.....I imagine the cost would be the same/similar as labor is a constant
to do a hi-po rebuild, new crank, rods, pistons, etc...again, i imagine the cost would have to be the same or similar.
that being said, why wouldnt you want to start with bigger motor to begin with?
regardless...just make sure you build a hemi 440...thats always the best way to go
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/13/11 07:43 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Just took out another 440 on saturday in the final. 11.78 at 114~ 115.
Getting there quick is fun, but flat-out-powering a guy at the stripe is funner.
Good for you! I saw a VW beetle outrun a 383 Charger a couple of weekends back at the strip in Ashcroft.....not sure what that proves about the superiority of VW beetles, though.
Dave
That they can easily beat 440 cudas?
and six pak super beez... 
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/13/11 04:58 PM
Quote:
383's ARE capable, NEVER underestimate them!!
Exactly! ANYTHING can be made fast....of course this observation has little to do with the discussion at hand, but what else is new!
Dave
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/13/11 04:59 PM
Quote:
hypothetical example...two core motors 1) 383 and 2) a 440 both have steel crank.
to do a budget rebuild (reuse block, crank, rods, heads)...assume new rings, brearings, came, intake.....I imagine the cost would be the same/similar as labor is a constant
to do a hi-po rebuild, new crank, rods, pistons, etc...again, i imagine the cost would have to be the same or similar.
that being said, why wouldnt you want to start with bigger motor to begin with?
You're wasting your breath spouting logic to the illogical.
Dave
Quote:
Quote:
hypothetical example...two core motors 1) 383 and 2) a 440 both have steel crank.
to do a budget rebuild (reuse block, crank, rods, heads)...assume new rings, brearings, came, intake.....I imagine the cost would be the same/similar as labor is a constant
to do a hi-po rebuild, new crank, rods, pistons, etc...again, i imagine the cost would have to be the same or similar.
that being said, why wouldnt you want to start with bigger motor to begin with?
You're wasting your breath spouting logic to the illogical.
Dave
Sometimes, GREAT and INNOVATIVE concepts come from
the ILLOGICAL!! Being cheap HAS it's limitations.
Quote:
Quote:
383's ARE capable, NEVER underestimate them!!
Exactly! ANYTHING can be made fast....of course this observation has little to do with the discussion at hand, but what else is new!
Dave
ANYTHING can be made fast....and this observation has nothing to do with the discussion? WOW, you really are biased on engine displacement, and not on potential!!
Posted By: RemCharger
Re: 383 VS 440 - 07/19/11 09:34 PM
Whoops, accidentally bumped this to the top.
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