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BIG BLOCK VS SMALL

Posted By: CUDA8U

BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 06:13 AM

WHICH ENGINE IS THE CHEAPEST AND EASIEST TO BUILD TO 500PLUS HP?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 12:15 PM

Hands down it's the 440 w it's 3/4 taller decks for more stroke potential or stock stroke/good heads. Even if you (commonly) stroke a 360 to 408, cubewise it's still a small BB & will take more radical (way less streetable) mods to get what you want. Build a killer long block then you can play w the cam/intake/ign etc & I've never heard anyone say they've built an eng w too much power, on the contrary...EDIT If you're not going to stroke it then a 400 w 440 crank (451) may b better (smaller/lighter) & is a better fit in an body & 470 (offset ground 440 3.750" crank) cubes is a practical limit in a B block
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 01:01 PM

cheapest? spray it.

what's your stock engine making now? 250 hp? what's a 250 spray kit cost? couple hundred bucks?


oh...did you want longevity too?
Posted By: tee-john

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 01:12 PM

I have a stroked 360 and being MOPAR we all know cheap or low cost is non existent in our world. I could have built a badasss Chevy big block for less than the cost of my 410. It depends what kind of vehicle that you are putting it into and what you are doing with it. No matter what you build, you will just love the power of a stroked motor, it's worth the cost. I know a guy that can get you some good info and cost on a complete long or short block. If you need his name send me a message.
Posted By: terzmo

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 01:18 PM

Quote:

cheapest? spray it.

what's your stock engine making now? 250 hp? what's a 250 spray kit cost? couple hundred bucks?


oh...did you want longevity too?



and how long does it hold up...
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 01:44 PM

I am a small block guy but at the 500+ HP range The big block would be cheaper.

Mainly b/c you are going to need a fairly heavily ported small block head to make that kind of power.

Big block choices are far and wide and a lot more used heads pop up then small blocks.
Posted By: Prince_Valiant

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 02:56 PM

Quote:

WHICH ENGINE IS THE CHEAPEST AND EASIEST TO BUILD TO 500PLUS HP?

THAT'S EASY...IT'S A BI...ahem, 'scuse me. Sorry.

That's easy, a big block.

But perhaps better is rather than a number, what's your goal with the vehicle? What type? What will you want to do? What time do you envision?
Posted By: Leadfoot

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 03:35 PM

If you're trying to squeeze the Big Block into an A body your cost savings just went out the window.
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 03:44 PM

In stock form the heads flow about the same, a little well though out port and either can be made to flow enough, good pistons and rebuld kits are similar in price, a reground roller cam in a 360 mag is just as cheap as a flat tappet for a BB and combine it with some KB 167 pistons will get you 10.5 compression and tight quench ( a lot more money to get good quench with a BB 915 heads are hard to find and not normally cheap and with a cheap piston like a KB 237 you will need block milling to get a tight quench). TTI headers are gonna run similar $$$ or if you like to keep it super low budget you can get some summit brand headers real cheap for a SB. After all is said and done I think the SB could save you a few bucks (not much)but you are not gonna have the TQ of a similarly built BB, on the other hand an automatic SB car can run a 904 that costs less HP and weighs a lot less than a 727 that is required with a BB, also the engine would weigh a lot less, all added together you can save at least 150 LBS over an iron headed 440 plus a drive train soaking up less of the HP. 500 hp SB with the car set up right will be faster than a 500 HP 440, the 440 car would be more docile on the street from stop light to stop light but the SB car will handle better.

If you are really on a budget and have a car set up one way or the other then that is probably the cheapest way to go. Changin a BB car to SB costs money and vise versa.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 05:26 PM

Quote:

If you're trying to squeeze the Big Block into an A body your cost savings just went out the window.



Not really. Even if you go the most expensive route for mounts it's only $160. For 500 hp you're gonna need all the same beefier parts (suspension, rear end, brakes, etc.). Headers are another story, but good headers are expensive for either motor and if the big block is a "B" motor you can use "cheap" headers.
Posted By: joedust451

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 06:14 PM

I love BB A bodies, but to just stuff "stock" vs. "stock", i'd go 360 magnum, why, well unless you get an earlier 383/440 which are getting scarce, the later 440s are pigs in stock form IMO, no compression, crappy heads that flow around 215/160, I've done this a few times & in stock bottom end form wasn't too impressed, got beatin up from plenty of SB chevy novas, My last build was with a junkyard 360 magnum out of a 95 truck, i purchased a set of RHS heads, stock they flow 240s/170s, a "small" re-ground roller cam & bolt-ons, with a 650dp, summit headers 2800 11" stall, stock 904 with RMVB, 3.73 gears, i would drive too & from the track & click off many 12.5 passes shifting at 5100, with a better cam, a good converter & a 4.30 gear, i'd be in the 11s still running on pump 91.

I ran my fastest pass on a (400.00) plate system with 125 pills, Not even sorted out for max power, it pulled off a 7.4 pass @ 95 & i lifted abruptly do to drifting, there was more in it, tuned for max on a 150 shot i'll garuantee it would have pulled off a 7.0 @ 98-99.

Just stuff a junkyard 360 magnum shortblock in it with RHS or EQ heads, a nice roller cam, RPM intake, 750 carb, a 9.5" converter & at least a 4.11 gear & have a blast, then collect a couple more 360 magnums for spares.

I only had 1800.00 in the "whole" engine, includeing the 350.00 i paid for it , My old 451 cost me a good 4500.00+ & ran 6.9/7.0s NA
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 07:27 PM

The question (as stated) has only one correct answer: Big Block (specifically a 440)


Dave
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 07:32 PM

I'M LOOKING FOR AN E-BODY CAR AS WE SPEAK SO I'M LOOKING AT OPTIONS FOR AN ENGI NE BUILD.I WOULD LIKE A STREETABLE ENGINE ON PUMP GAS THAT WOULD RUN 500HP OR SO.WHAT ARE YOR THOUGHTS ON A 383 BUILD? MANY OF THE 71 CHALLENGERS COME WITH A 383 OR 340,SO IT SOUNDS LIKE IF I END UP WITH A 383 I SHOULD REPLACE WITH A 440 TO ACCOMPLISH MY GOALS THE EASIEST?
Posted By: terzmo

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 07:40 PM

Personally I would build the 440 over the 383 as the costs are the same. Actually have done that with one motor...440 stroked and bored to 498...comp cam...10 to 1 KB pistons...Running over 450 hp on pump gas and is very streetable....and the Big block sound is so much nicer than the small blocks....not that a small block can't break a heart....lol
Posted By: RemCharger

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 07:58 PM

Quote:

Personally I would build the 440 over the 383 as the costs are the same. Actually have done that with one motor...440 stroked and bored to 498...comp cam...10 to 1 KB pistons...Running over 450 hp on pump gas and is very streetable....


383s can make fun power too.
Good friend of mine has a 70 rt se chally with a 383/ el dabrock heads, made 500 on an crank dyno. Cam selection and machining are important to get right.
You need to be sure of what you want, or want to accomplish, I'm wondering why you grabbed the # 500 out of the air. Is there a certain et you are trying to achieve, or....
The easiest way of course is to make up some 500 HP stickers and put them on the valve covers. Nobody would know unless you took it to the track.

And turn your capslock button off please.
Posted By: terzmo

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 08:26 PM

as the costs to build a 383 or 440 are identical, I refraimed from the saying "no replacement for displacement" 383 can be fun but when people compare a 383 to a 440 it's like a 440 to a hemi...Hemi's always get the nod overall and a 440 would be the same compared to a 383
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 08:48 PM

Quote:

as the costs to build a 383 or 440 are identical, I refraimed from the saying "no replacement for displacement" 383 can be fun but when people compare a 383 to a 440 it's like a 440 to a hemi...Hemi's always get the nod overall and a 440 would be the same compared to a 383



Yeah, it's not rocket science; the 440 and 383 are basically the same motors.....expect about 15% more power from a 440, all other things being equal.

Dave
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 09:16 PM

OK!!!!!

THIS IS WHY I ASKED.......NO REAL DEFINATE ANSWERS ON A 383VS440
I HAVE READ THAT THE 383 HAS THINNER CYLINDER WALLS AND WILL FAIL SOONER IF BORED.

AS FAR AS THE 440 I'VE READ THE 67-68 BLOCKS ARE BETTER,SO I GUESS ALL BIG BLOCKS ARE NOT THE SAME!

SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS BUILT SEVERAL BIG BLOCKS AND PERSONALLY KNOWS THE DIFF. SPECS OF BIG BLOCKS?

THANKS FOR THE INPUT GUYS.......STILL UP IN THE AIR WHAT IS THE BEST BUILD I GUESS?
Posted By: buildanother

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 09:25 PM

Depends on what you want out of it. If you never plan on racing it, but DO want it to fry the tires on occasion and sound great always, I would build a basic 440 or possibly 500 inch if you have the dough. A nice cam and a little converter will work well w/out crazy gear.
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 09:33 PM

YA I'M LOOKIN TO BUILD A CAR TO DRIVE,SOMETHING FAST,RELIABLE,PUMP GAS,STREETABLE AND IS JUST BAD ASS THAT CAN SMOKE THE TIRES OFF!!!
Posted By: terzmo

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 09:34 PM

Quote:

OK!!!!!

THIS IS WHY I ASKED.......NO REAL DEFINATE ANSWERS ON A 383VS440
I HAVE READ THAT THE 383 HAS THINNER CYLINDER WALLS AND WILL FAIL SOONER IF BORED.

AS FAR AS THE 440 I'VE READ THE 67-68 BLOCKS ARE BETTER,SO I GUESS ALL BIG BLOCKS ARE NOT THE SAME!

SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS BUILT SEVERAL BIG BLOCKS AND PERSONALLY KNOWS THE DIFF. SPECS OF BIG BLOCKS?

THANKS FOR THE INPUT GUYS.......STILL UP IN THE AIR WHAT IS THE BEST BUILD I GUESS?



I've read articles that stated the mid 70's blocks are better than the 60's blocks...I have a 72 only 030 over and a 76 stroked to 498...happy with both
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 09:37 PM

THERES A VIDEO ON YOUTUBE CALLED CHALLENGER FROM A ROLL......HE HAS A COUPLE VIDS OF HIS BLUE CHALLENGER.......I WANT MINE TO DO THAT!!!!
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 10:13 PM

Quote:

OK!!!!!

THIS IS WHY I ASKED.......NO REAL DEFINATE ANSWERS ON A 383VS440
I HAVE READ THAT THE 383 HAS THINNER CYLINDER WALLS AND WILL FAIL SOONER IF BORED.

AS FAR AS THE 440 I'VE READ THE 67-68 BLOCKS ARE BETTER,SO I GUESS ALL BIG BLOCKS ARE NOT THE SAME!

SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS BUILT SEVERAL BIG BLOCKS AND PERSONALLY KNOWS THE DIFF. SPECS OF BIG BLOCKS?

THANKS FOR THE INPUT GUYS.......STILL UP IN THE AIR WHAT IS THE BEST BUILD I GUESS?



Here you go; everything you ever wanted to know about 440 blocks;

http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

Basically, any 440 block in good condition can be used and the differences between them all are VERY minor.

Dave
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 10:33 PM

WELL THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION ON WHAT YEAR OF 440 ARE BEST BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 383 VS 440 SPECS?
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 11:39 PM

Quote:

WELL THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION ON WHAT YEAR OF 440 ARE BEST BUT WHAT ABOUT THE 383 VS 440 SPECS?



Well, they are the same basic design, using the same heads; the 383 is smaller and the 440 is bigger.

OK, here;

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/383.html

..there's the specs for you. Basically, expect the 440 to produce about the same hp difference vs. the 383 as thier size difference would suggest; about 15%

Dave
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 11:47 PM

THANKS,SO GUESS IF I PURCHASE A CAR WITH A 383 THEN I'M BUILDING THAT SINCE THE SPECS ARE SO CLOSE AND THE EXTRA PURCHASE COST WOULD OUT WEIGH THE HP/TQ OF A 440
Posted By: DPelletier

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/20/11 11:57 PM

Quote:

THANKS,SO GUESS IF I PURCHASE A CAR WITH A 383 THEN I'M BUILDING THAT SINCE THE SPECS ARE SO CLOSE AND THE EXTRA PURCHASE COST WOULD OUT WEIGH THE HP/TQ OF A 440



If you are buying a car that has a 383 and it's an original 383 car and you want 500hp, then I would suggest stroking the 383 or using a 400 stroker (451 cu in) to get your 500hp. You can get it with 383 cubes, but it will be a much more radical build.

OTOH, if you don't care about originality, then you may be $$$$'s ahead to get a 440 anyway....it's not like 440 cores are all that expensive and you can use the heads and many misc. parts off the 383 anyway.

Dave
Posted By: CUDA8U

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/21/11 12:00 AM

I KNOW OF A 440/727 HP FOR 600 BUCKS ACTUALLY
Posted By: bboogieart

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/21/11 12:03 AM

If you do care about origanality then a 400 won't do in a 383 car, as it aint origanal. My vote would be to find a reasonable car and hop up what ya got. They can all be made to smoke tires. Build for torque. Just don't expect good gas mileage. Just one opinion. Have fun what ever you decide.
I also agree you need to turn your cap lock button off as all capital letters is concidered yelling on the web. It's just good manners.
Posted By: HYPER8oSoNic

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/21/11 04:15 AM

Quote:

OK!!!!!

THIS IS WHY I ASKED.......NO REAL DEFINATE ANSWERS ON A 383VS440
I HAVE READ THAT THE 383 HAS THINNER CYLINDER WALLS AND WILL FAIL SOONER IF BORED.

AS FAR AS THE 440 I'VE READ THE 67-68 BLOCKS ARE BETTER,SO I GUESS ALL BIG BLOCKS ARE NOT THE SAME!

SO IS THERE ANYONE WHO HAS BUILT SEVERAL BIG BLOCKS AND PERSONALLY KNOWS THE DIFF. SPECS OF BIG BLOCKS?

THANKS FOR THE INPUT GUYS.......STILL UP IN THE AIR WHAT IS THE BEST BUILD I GUESS?



Simple answers: Fewer dollars invested, simple mods, go 440 cubes, especially with a 3800-4200lb B-body car!
Lighter car (by 700-1000lbs less or A-body), some dollars to invest in BETTER intake and heads, love the sound of a screaming big block, go 383 cubes, especially with a stick behind it!

Posted By: RobX4406

Re: BIG BLOCK VS SMALL - 06/21/11 06:43 AM

KILL THE CAPS WOULD YOU!

Thanks

easiest to build a 440 to get 500hp

Astroker small block will get you there with a 1400 set of RHS heads like what Brian at IMM does. A bunch have been built with good result and Hydraulic cams.
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