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Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...)

Posted By: WyleECoyote

Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 08:33 PM

Does it matter which way they "appear" to turn with regard to the notches that are cut in the plate?

Numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 from left to right:

#1 - old one I had in a box (don't remember anything about it)
#2 - I just pulled out of my overheating 71 383
#3 - Mopar Performance pump I had purchased for a 440 build
#4 - Milodon pump I just bought to replace #2 in an attempt to cure overheating

#1 and #4 have notches one way and
#2 and #3 have notches the other way.

Any difference in the way they operate?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 08:38 PM

EXCELLENT thread! THis has the potential to be infomative!!!!
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 08:53 PM

You also forgot to mention the difference in BLADE count.

What housing are you running ?

I don't know of any REVERSE flow Mopar applications from the factory , other than a reverse rotation Marine application anyway ...



Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 09:10 PM

so the outside ones 1 and 4 are a/c pumps. the middle 2 are non-a/c.

guessing they were still afraid of cavitation on the a/c set, so they are on backwards to minimize the pressure difference? just a guess.
but my bet is they work as well as the others with the right small pulley.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 09:15 PM

Quote:

so the outside ones 1 and 4 are a/c pumps. the middle 2 are non-a/c.

guessing they were still afraid of cavitation on the a/c set, so they are on backwards to minimize the pressure difference? just a guess.
but my bet is they work as well as the others with the right small pulley.



I've heard the 8 blades are non AC, while 6 are AC, but I forgot the reasoning???? Initial thought is that 8=more flow and AC cars need more cooling capacity, but obviously thats wrong.
Whats the explaination again?
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 09:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

so the outside ones 1 and 4 are a/c pumps. the middle 2 are non-a/c.

guessing they were still afraid of cavitation on the a/c set, so they are on backwards to minimize the pressure difference? just a guess.
but my bet is they work as well as the others with the right small pulley.



I've heard the 8 blades are non AC, while 6 are AC, but I forgot the reasoning???? Initial thought is that 8=more flow and AC cars need more cooling capacity, but obviously thats wrong.
Whats the explaination again?



Pulley size, A/C pulley is smaller so the pump spins faster..
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 10:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

so the outside ones 1 and 4 are a/c pumps. the middle 2 are non-a/c.

guessing they were still afraid of cavitation on the a/c set, so they are on backwards to minimize the pressure difference? just a guess.
but my bet is they work as well as the others with the right small pulley.



I've heard the 8 blades are non AC, while 6 are AC, but I forgot the reasoning???? Initial thought is that 8=more flow and AC cars need more cooling capacity, but obviously thats wrong.
Whats the explaination again?

I was alway told the 8 blade was for a/c car and 6 was for non a/c car..... more blade more flow??
Posted By: stubbs300

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 10:13 PM

Yes, Excellent discussion! I'm not going to type everything that's in my FSM, but if you look in the "Cooling" section on the spec page you will see what different vehicles had in terms of numbers of impeller blades. Mine happens to be 66 C body. As far as the way the baldes are this way or that way and effect of cooling, I don't have a clue, but could be a factor.
Posted By: Andrewh

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 10:23 PM

everyone always gets it backwards.

a/c is 6 blade. as said above, the pulley is smaller, so it spins faster.
they were afraid 8 blade spining that fast would cavitate and cause damage.

8 blades were for non-a/c cars which had larger pulley's, so needed more blades for the same flow due to slower rpm's.
Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 11:14 PM

Car Specs:
71 Superbee 383, non-A/C, power steering, no clutch fan. New radiator, new hoses (w spring in lower) new thermostat, new water pump. Car was getting up to 218 degrees as read with a digital thermometer just below the thermostat housing. I ordered the Milodon pump to see if it fixes the problem. I changed the thermostat twice; stove-top bench-tested before installing. I flushed the block, heater core and radiator. I removed the plugs from each side of the block during the flushing.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 11:47 PM

The notches don't make any difference,the vanes are at the same angle on all of them. If they were at a different angle that would matter but the notches are just cuts in the steel from manufacturing and have no affect on the flow. The Milodon pumps work well,I have used a few of them.
Keith
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/18/11 11:51 PM

Quote:

The notches don't make any difference,the vanes are at the same angle on all of them. If they were at a different angle that would matter but the notches are just cuts in the steel from manufacturing and have no affect on the flow. The Milodon pumps work well,I have used a few of them.
Keith



Does the full backing plate on the Milodon make much difference?
Does anyone make an 8-Blade pump with a backing plate?
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 12:09 AM

The plate must help somewhat,it is the same idea that the Flowcooler brand uses.
Here is a pic,from left to right of Edelbrock"s pump,the often hated 440 Source,and my new favorite 8 blade with a plate behind it. This fixed the cooling issues on my tow rig. It is a Tuff Stuff Supercool brand.
Keith

Attached picture 6688947-034.JPG
Posted By: Junky

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 12:19 AM

Quote:



...and my new favorite 8 blade with a plate behind it.

Part number please.
Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 01:05 AM

The arms are flat so the angle has no effect on water flow. The flow direction is determined by which way the pump is turned.
The different angles are not for reverse rotation Marine motors. Marine motors do not use OEM pumps, they are raw water cooled and have a seperate water pump, Sherwood pumps were common on Chrysler Marine 440s.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 03:40 AM

I have a "cat" pump that looks like the "source" pump in the middle of the last pic. Ain't used it yet (upcoming 451). I believe an 8 blade w anticav plate/smallest WP pulley you can find/reducing the vane to housing clearance to ~.040" for a more efficient pump. Biggest area 3 or 4 core rad you can fit/hi flow stat/shroud/thermal clutch fan 1/2-2/3 deep into it. fastest water speed you can muster. Bare block? drill a 1/2" water passage at the outside edge of cyls 3/5 and 4/6 & a matching hole in the head (punch a hole in the head gasket do not drill it/plug large coolant hole in the rear of each deck w a freeze plug and drill a 1/8" hole at the top (inside edge) of each of the (2) freeze plugs as the deck will b at a 45 angle to let air out at the top of each freeze plug.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 04:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:



...and my new favorite 8 blade with a plate behind it.

Part number please.



I bought mine from Summit,part # TFF1317NC
It was $63.95,they have a chrome one for #30.00 more.
Keith
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/19/11 08:52 PM

Quote:

The plate must help somewhat,it is the same idea that the Flowcooler brand uses.
Here is a pic,from left to right of Edelbrock"s pump,the often hated 440 Source,and my new favorite 8 blade with a plate behind it. This fixed the cooling issues on my tow rig. It is a Tuff Stuff Supercool brand.
Keith



That LOOKS to be the best pump out there! I may give it a try
Posted By: WyleECoyote

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/21/11 01:33 AM

Okay - so I installed the Milodon pump and experienced the SAME 220 degree temperatures.

Here's my thoughts:

I bought the car in 2000 and it had not be driven since 1985. I then did nothing with it until 2009 when I drove it to Monster Mopar Weekend in St. Louis. So for 24 years, it hadn't been driven. I flushed the engine, installed a new radiator, hoses, thermostat and water pump. I drove it from Knoxville, Tn to St. Louis and back (1200 miles) with no problems. I park the car (2009) and then drive the car 2 years later (this month). NOW, I am experiencing overheating problems. No change in timing, thermostat stove-top-verified, new coolant flush, new water pump - and still overheating.

It is my belief that after 24 years of not running (even after a coolant flush) and driving it 1200 miles and then parking it - that rust broke loose throughout the coolant system and has compromised the new radiator.....

I'm taking the radiator back to the shop that rebuilt it and have them flow test it and clean it/re-rod-it/what-ever-they-do-to-them-to-fix-them and try THAT.

This HAS to be it! (PS - I pressure tested the system to 18 lbs and it held for 2 hours.)

I will keep you posted!!!

Thanks everyone.
Posted By: BigTerry

Re: Look at these pair! (water pump impellers that is...) - 06/21/11 01:38 AM

Quote:

everyone always gets it backwards.

a/c is 6 blade. as said above, the pulley is smaller, so it spins faster.
they were afraid 8 blade spining that fast would cavitate and cause damage.

8 blades were for non-a/c cars which had larger pulley's, so needed more blades for the same flow due to slower rpm's.

hummm that does right learn something new everyday in here!
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