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fuel pump question/problem- help

Posted By: CharlieB

fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 04:00 PM

1969 SBee 383 all stock carb- After a 2 hour drive stopped my Bee for some dinner. Car would not start, plenty of spark, electrical working fine. No gas to carb. Had it towed home. Figured it was a fuel pump so I put gas directly into carb to confirm that was the problem. Car started and continued to run well beyond gas put in carb. Turned off and started it up several times without a problem. Still thinking fuel pump should be replaced but I am wondering if it may be someting else as well. I drive this Bee all the time have never had any problems with her- very dependable- I'm planning on doing the New England Cruise this weekend which from Maine will mean 300-400 miles so I want to be sure she's ready. Any suggestions?
Posted By: Viol8r

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 04:06 PM

Most likely vapor lock. Bad enough to strand you somewhere. Time to take a look at all your fuel line routing. Start insulating!
Posted By: Kudakidd

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 04:08 PM

Charlie, if the fuel system is vented, check to see that the gas cap vent hole is unobstructed. I would also check vent tube on the carb.
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 04:25 PM

Quote:

Most likely vapor lock. Bad enough to strand you somewhere. Time to take a look at all your fuel line routing. Start insulating!




Doubt it's the routing- I've put 32,000 on her since I replaced all lines with SS as well as new tank. I check the venting though. Is it the consensus it's not the fuel pump?
Posted By: OzHemi

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 04:29 PM

What about the fuel pump push rod starting to wear perhaps..
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 05:10 PM

Quote:

What about the fuel pump push rod starting to wear perhaps..




Hmm- not sure if I've ever heard of that happening much. Going to let her sit for a while and see if it starts cold. Thinking maybe checkvalve in pump. If it won't start after being left sitting for a while I'm going to replace pump and fuel filter and see what happens.
Posted By: noplanb

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What about the fuel pump push rod starting to wear perhaps..




Hmm- not sure if I've ever heard of that happening much. Going to let her sit for a while and see if it starts cold. Thinking maybe checkvalve in pump. If it won't start after being left sitting for a while I'm going to replace pump and fuel filter and see what happens.




It is absolutely worth checking, I had a brand new Carter 6903 on my old 383 and it still stranded me a couple times. The pushrod turned out to be a full 1/4 in shorter than the replacement. The new rod fixed 90% of the vapor lock issues (the Eddy 750 carb was the other 10%...) The 493 I built to replace it has a new pushrod and the 70-71 vapor separator and return setup
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 05:37 PM

Anyone know the correct length of the push rod to check for wear? is it 3.25 inches
Posted By: noplanb

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 05:43 PM

3.25 is the correct length.
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 05:48 PM

Thanks- I'll check it and replace if necessary.
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 10:08 PM

OK tried restarting with a little gas directly to carb no go. Took off fuel filter plenty of gas, took off fuel pump full of gas as well, plus the fuel line fron the tank runs plenty of gas. SO I am going to take off the fuel pump push rod- see that it has an allen wrench screw type which I have but it appears to be in tight to the point it won't budge. Don't want to force anything - do I have to do something before hand other than loosen it. Can't find anything in the FSM dealing with it. Also, who sells a replacement. NAPA says no, local Dodge dealer gave me a couple of out of state dealers who claim to have them.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:00 PM

smell your gas to make sure it did not rupture and dump fuel into the oil pan!

a few have done this to only kill the engine with gas in the oil

some of the new replacement rods had a problem of wear/mushrooming on the end so do some asking and home work for a replacement part

sure you didnt flood it pouring gas down the hole with an already vaporlocked engine
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:19 PM

kind of lost here. In 4 years 32,000 miles never had a vaporlock problem- always started, including several starts/stops that night. After letting it sit overnight put a little gas in carb and it statred right up. Started it on and off several times and it started every time. Let it sit for 2 hours and it would not start- no gas at carb. Put a little gas in carb as before- would not start. Gas in filter/pump. I have replacements for both, but thought I might check pump push rod while I'm there. Can't seem to get rod to budge. I see YearOne has them, but want to remove check for wear first. Just can't get it out!!
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:32 PM

rod should slide out if the plate and galley is open,may have mushroomed and not wanting to slide out of the block

may want to make sure you not haveing a heat soak,gas perking problem with the ethel in the gas nowdays.

could be flooding on shut down and heat soak,gas has a lower boil point now days and carbs are have a fit with it in the heat

good luck

and smell your oil for gas
Posted By: noplanb

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:34 PM

What you're trying to loosen is just a pipe plug that covers the access hole for the pushrod. Hit it with some PB Blaster/penetrating oil.

Pushrods are also available from Mancini.
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:45 PM

well I do smell gas in the oil!! Now what do I do??
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/06/11 11:55 PM

Ch oil/filter & on the pipe plug if it's stubborn, w an Allen wrench in it hit it down vertical to shock it then switch Allen wrench ends in the plug if you can get the short leg of the Allen wrench in it & hit the long leg w a hammer rather than a slow push, to break it free
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 12:32 AM

So if I understand it correctly I definetly need to replace the fuel pump push rod- replace oil and filter- I already have fuel pump and fuel filter so might as well do that. Any thing else- any damage to engine??
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 03:47 AM

just hoping for confirmaton on my opinions/options
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 11:49 AM

Quote:

So if I understand it correctly I definetly need to replace the fuel pump push rod- replace oil and filter- I already have fuel pump and fuel filter so might as well do that. Any thing else- any damage to engine??




maybe maybe not on changing the rod,need to get it out and inspect it first.

pick up a filter and oil for a change while you have it down for repairs.

once you get the plug and rod out report back your findings.

if it checks ok,then start looking else where for the problem

gas in the oil could come from it perking/flooding then washing down past the rings to get to the oil pan.

IMO,thats next,rule out heat soak/gas perk/vapor lock once the fuel pump and supply check out good.
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 10:04 PM

OK so I finally got the pump rod out- do not have anything more precise than a ruler but if 3.25 is correct lenght it is a strong 1/16 to 1/8 short and shows signs of wear on the end. Whats the verdict??
Posted By: noplanb

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 10:49 PM

I'd replace it, ain't gonna grow back. It will only get worse.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 10:54 PM

Quote:

OK so I finally got the pump rod out- do not have anything more precise than a ruler but if 3.25 is correct lenght it is a strong 1/16 to 1/8 short and shows signs of wear on the end. Whats the verdict??




Is it a new rod or a reused original ?
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 10:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

OK so I finally got the pump rod out- do not have anything more precise than a ruler but if 3.25 is correct lenght it is a strong 1/16 to 1/8 short and shows signs of wear on the end. Whats the verdict??




Is it a new rod or a reused original ?




Not sure if the shop replaced during rebuild, but I've put 32,000 miles on it in 5 years.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 10:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

OK so I finally got the pump rod out- do not have anything more precise than a ruler but if 3.25 is correct lenght it is a strong 1/16 to 1/8 short and shows signs of wear on the end. Whats the verdict??




Is it a new rod or a reused original ?




still the stock cam?

has the 383 ever been apart?

Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/07/11 11:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

OK so I finally got the pump rod out- do not have anything more precise than a ruler but if 3.25 is correct lenght it is a strong 1/16 to 1/8 short and shows signs of wear on the end. Whats the verdict??




Is it a new rod or a reused original ?




still the stock cam?



has the 383 ever been apart?

complete stock rebuild 30 over 5 years ago




Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 01:15 AM

Yes replace it & not sure of the depth of the hardenening (assuming it is hardened on the ends) & there was a comprehensive thread on the best rod to get as some brand new rods ain't no good/won't last
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 02:54 AM

I'm looking at the Mancini steel tipped- any good?
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 03:18 AM

stick it back in and measure how much the cam lobe moves the rod to rule out the cam lobe worn down along with the rod.

new rod wont fix a bad cam lobe

was the rod a "used stock one" or was it "replaced" in the rebuild?

you may have a bad rod in hand already if it was replaced in the rebuild

Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 03:28 AM

Not sure what the status of rod was after rebuild. What travel movement is acceptable. Turn over engine by ignition?
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 03:34 AM

pull the coil wire,have some one spin it a good few spins and see how much it moves,pushing the rod against the cam lobe with a finger.

any wear marks on the side of rod to indicate how much movment it has been moveing?

most likly nothing wrong with the cam,good to double check it while your there

go on the race board and ask which rod is best,they will know
Posted By: CharlieB

Re: fuel pump question/problem- help - 06/08/11 03:40 AM

doesn't appear to have any wear on the side, but definetly on the ends. Thanks for the help. I'll check on the race board.
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