ATF4 in A833, good? bad? ugly?

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If you take not of the picture I attached - The 4 speed ( 23 spline ) that I am basing my post on has towed a camper, with a family of 4 and bikes on the roof - it was beat on heavily it's entire life. It had brass syncro's and they were in excellent condition and did not need to be replaced.

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The roller bearings on the countershaft seem to really get hammered the most, ATF doesn't have great lubrication properties compared to gear oil or even motoroil.

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The transmissions I have rebuilt that were ATF filled all needed the cluster gear shaft replaced , very noticeable wear pattern from the rollers.

If ATF is the godsend then why does one even have to replace the bearings? They should last forever, correct ?

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maybe if it sits... like in your case - and does not get driven...lol

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well I do - and they were ATF when shipped around here.

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Since I live further North than you I can only ASSuME that the factory fill here was also ATF but for some reason the owners of some/many cars switched to gear oil?

We will never agree on this.

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I see a difference between the ATF that the factory recommended in the sixties/seventies and the ATF+4 of today. "Slippery" fluid defeats the purpose of the synchro rings.

Even though some current standard transmissions use +4 from the factory they have different (composite?) synchros than the 833.

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there is even a difference between the recommended fill of Dexron to the currently available Dexron/Mercron III , I wouldn't even think of using that +3 or +4 fluid.

John is also correct late model manual transmissions thaat call for ATF don't have BRASS syncro stop rings .

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Have a read.............

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Try again, thanks for playing.

Picture is from my battered 1970 service manual, not some "after the fact" book.

Note the factory fill is SAE140, if cold weather use 80W or 90W or ATF. Once warmer weather returns in bold it states to replace ATF with SAE140.

Gary

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I used 1 qt of ATF and filled the rest with 80w90. That seemed to give me the best feel when shifting. I tried all 80w90 and it was to hard to shift and straight ATF was just too loose feeling and gave me personally the wrong feel for shifting causing mis-shifts. So I compromised and mixed them.

Is there something out there better? Maybe, and yea, the Factory service manuals I have seen all called for straight ATF. But I will never run it straight in my stuff again. At the time too (about 10 years ago), ATF and 80w90 were CHEAP! Nowadays with dino oils approaching that of synthetics, I mght be inclined to try a synthetic when I get my 4-speed back together in a running vehicle.

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In my A833 (23spline) I run 80-90W gear oil that says it works well in extreme pressure and hypoid type of rear ends. It also says it works well in manual transmission and differentials.

There is usually difficulty in shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear fairly consistently...and it seems to occur more often when the car gets warmed up.

The trans is in my 70 Charger RT with 512RB engine with a new Hurst competition plus shifter kit. Could this problem be caused by the type of fluid?

Or is there another thing that could be causing the problem

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I am now worried about this also...I just got done filling up my A833 with 80W90 extreme pressure gear oil from the local auto parts house...Will I now have problems shifting it????

Wish I had known this before

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In my A833 (23spline) I run 80-90W gear oil that says it works well in extreme pressure and hypoid type of rear ends. It also says it works well in manual transmission and differentials.

There is usually difficulty in shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear fairly consistently...and it seems to occur more often when the car gets warmed up.

The trans is in my 70 Charger RT with 512RB engine with a new Hurst competition plus shifter kit. Could this problem be caused by the type of fluid?

Or is there another thing that could be causing the problem

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Syncromesh will work fine, but is more prone to leaking.
Dan

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Amen to that. I had a couple of tiny leaks that weren't bad enough to warrant trany r&r until I tried Syncromesh. I would think that atf would leak just as bad.

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GL5 will not deteriorate the syncros , you may have gear clash ... aka shifting issues ... since you love to cheap out on stuff , run it and tell us how it works .

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thats it, I just LOVE to cheap out on stuff

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If you can't find it local I have Penn 80/90 GL4. Syncromesh will work fine, but is more prone to leaking.
Dan

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But...yep it says SAE 80W-90 GL-5,GL-4,GL-3 on the bottle. The trans shifts like butter except from 2nd to 3rd when the trans starts to get warmer the longer I am cruising.

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I don't know enough about oils to know if it's possible to rate an oil like that , if it has the stuff for GL5 in there can it really be 4 and 3 compatible ?

Put a thinner oil in it , heck put ATF in , it must be ok since I read it on the internet ...

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ATF has never been a problem -

The only other lube I'd recommend is the one Jamie Passon makes on his own, as I am sure he has a well developed product.

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back in 1970/71 mopar put out memo that was directed to owners in cold weather states saying if stick trannys shifted hard in xx degrees and colder,drop gear oil and put in atf.thought that a bit odd but reports back from cws was "thanks can shift the sob now"

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not to resurrect an older thread, but i feel i need some advice.

some of you have seen and replied in my other thread about my A833 grinding when i make the 1-2 shift under partial or hard throttle, but not under very light acceleration. I have taken the whole transmission apart and inspected every peice, and everything is working and worn as it should be with no visible issues at all. I changed the fluid in the transmission to AC delco synchromesh, and now im wondering my problem is the fluid im using?

Im thinking of trying ATF since i see quite a few people recommend it, and since its also dirt cheap and there is no non GL5 gear oil on any shelf here. Im wondering though what kind of ATF should I be trying? Dextron? Mercon? straight ATF? does it matter if its Dextron 3 or 4? Just looking for some input here since id like to refill the trans with ATF and see what happens

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Having tried many fluids the best for a getting a "touchy" transmission to shift well is Redline synthetic. Its available in two grades: "MTL" which is 70W80 from memory and 90 weight. Either one would work in an 833 - I'd suggest the MTL for easiest shifting with adequate protection of bearings/gears. Summit and others sell it.

I believe the ATF and syncromesh options are too light for an 833 (I know, controversial topic). That said if it won't shift smoothly on syncromesh you might well have problems with the hard parts as posted above.

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Well the hard parts have been inspected as per instructions here by a qualified manual transmission mechanic and everything is in good working order. I was kinda disappointed to not find anything wrong because now im really stumped. Gonna put it back on the road and see what happens.

Now im really confused...do i spring for some gear oil, or go to ATF? lol

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My dad is the original owner of a '70 challenger 383 4 speed car - he now has 114,000 miles on it. it had a rebuild at 112,000 miles and all that went in it was bearings, shift forks, seals, & gaskets.
He towed a camper trailer from NJ to as far as Missouri. He also drag races it when he has time and is never easy on it.

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Cherry Hill Dodge is still in buisness, and has about the same workmanship issues to this day...lol

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a bunch of hacks at that place.

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Think about it, if it was an issue of the fluid(which it clearly isn't), then why only 2nd gear? Follow that logic?

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I love these posts...well not really...lot's of opinions and hot air, little fact.

Why you would anything other than Passon lube in a 4 speed is beyond me. The year is 2011 NOT 1971!.

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I love these post too! Ya' first hand experience here. I'm the original owner of my RR. First 10 years of it's life, it was our family car/daily driver/grocery getter. Now it is my weekend cruiser and part time race car. Since about a month after I bought it the trans has had nothing but ATF. No unusal issues at all. How's 43 years of experience suit you?

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have actually had guys tell me that ATF displaces better than synchromesh or gear oil which would be better for the synchros. I just picked up some Type F ATF for a pretty good price, so im going to try it out...hopefully it works but if not im going to have to special order some GL4...the transmission is gonna have seen every fluid besides engine oil lol

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I've NEVER tried Type F. I use Dextron.

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Type F is supposed to have more friction modifiers in it. It's less sliperier.....

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True. GM and chrysler used servos and governors to modify shift points. Ford tuned with the fluid itself. Ive been told to use Dexron/Mercron to but would the synchronizers need benefit from a friction adder? Im sure the gears and bearings wouldn't though.

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Type F is supposed to have more friction modifiers in it. It's less sliperier.....

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well I just took it for a drive and its shifting like a dream! This thing is getting Type F from now on! and in case anyone is wondering which one i used, it was castrol brand type F, so nothing fancy really

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be sure to let us know in 3-6 months of driving, if it's still in one piece

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so with Type having the least friction modifiers it should "technically" be the best ATF for one of these brass synchro transmissions like the A833?

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