Moparts
Almost died today, 3 times
Posted By: GasHog72
Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 12:45 AM
So I was having problems with Hedman headers on the car with the steering linkage rubbing on the tube. Also the ground clearance was becoming a issue with parking in gravel. I removed them and put manifolds back on. After running the exhaust pipe and almost slicing my thumb off (please wear gloves) I finished with a set of Flowmaster 40 series. I started it up and it sounded pretty good with a nice thumping. I pulled out of the garage and proceeded to drive down to the main road on post(Fort Lewis) causing numerous car alarms to be set off. Right before the stop sign i gave it just a little more pedal to get it up the incline and it went full wide-open throttle. I proceeded to stop it with full pressure on the brakes and it slowed down to a stop. I shut off the fuel pump and shut her down. I looked at the carb and the throttle cable popped out a little from the recess and was [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]-eyed. That caused pressure to be put on the cable so it didn't return. I ignored everything that told me not to continue. I started it back up and idle was good. I made a left at the stop sign and cruised down the road with no issues. I got to the stop light and made a right and gradually gave it a little pedal. Screeeching of the tires told me that wasn't a little. The car proceeded to go 60 in a 40mph zone and i proceeded to go back to infancy. I shut her down quickly and coasted to the next right turn. Same thing again, stuck cable. I corrected it just to get her back home and it happened again without so much drama before I was finally home again.
I disconnected the throttle cable and rummaged through some parts and resorted to a old style Chrysler clamp-on bracket for the cable. After some adjusting and double-checking I backed her out again and hoped I wasn't going to have a near-death experience.
Nope that wasn't in the plan according to this possessed car. It revved up to 2-3000 and I braked in preparation for it. It then slowed back down to a idle. Any ideas? I've had enough near-death for today and don't want to try it again without being sure.
Posted By: FuryUs
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:06 AM
Do you have double throttle return springs?
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:10 AM
a pic would go a long ways. whats up with the return spring(s)? if you experience a "run away" throttle situation, just click the key off one click. kills the motor, doesnt lock the wheel. you should also be able to check all this, at home, without even starting the car. stomp the pedal a few times, and go out and look. if it's hanging up, dont drive it, until it's fixed. the liability of knowing there's a problem, and continuing to drive, can cost you everything.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:11 AM
I put a second set on after the last drive and checked the return on it. Its a lot quicker to return and may fix the issue but like I said, I don't wanna die today. It wont do anything at a idle in park to lock the throttle open like it had done while driving. This is on a 360/904 Edelbrock carb.
Posted By: FuryUs
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:15 AM
Broken motor mount allowing it to move and bind up?
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:16 AM
edelbrock sells a special adapter to run the carb on a mopar motor. you did get this adapter, and are using it, right?
http://store.edelbrock.com/1843chryslerthrottleleveradapter.aspx
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:25 AM
Yes I have one and it is installed. Pic is current setup now.
Posted By: jbc426
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 01:44 AM
Quote:
Yes I have one and it is installed. Pic is current setup now.
I would throw that cable away and use the factory one.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 02:38 AM
Yeah I'd say the kickdown cable is binding. Can unhook the accel pump rod to keep from squirting alot of raw gas in while you diagnose things in your driveway
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:00 AM
I just went and adjusted it just to make sure. I don't see that it was working properly. It didn't even move when the throttle was wide open.
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:16 AM
hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the bar to the kickdown is binding slightly. where you have the rod bolted against the adapter, i used the stud from the original linkage, with the hairpin clip to mount the kickdown. i'll have to see if i can find a pic, as the ride is gone, but the smooth stud, threaded on one end (that i mounted in the adapter) and then i put a flat washer on either side of the rod where it mounted to the stud, held on with the clip, and i used a paired spring set (smaller one inside of the larger one, not side by side) and everything was/is free to move without binding. i'll see if i can dig up the pics.
edit: here's a pic of the stud i mentioned. ignore the writing, was the only pic i could find quickly. i found the pic on this page, which has very detailed instructions on how to properly set up the edelbrock stuff, in your ride. http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/bpetkdcinstructionsnew.asp
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:32 AM
Yeah I know what you are saying. I looked around and couldnt find anything. I fixed the spring setup and now its the smaller one inside the bigger one. Will have to try Napa or something see if they have any of those studs.
Posted By: stinger
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:33 AM
that kickdown set up is all wrong,you need a stud where you have the bolt going into the throttle bracket that you linkage slides on and a return spring.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:45 AM
Yeah I realize that. Golden arm was nice enough to give me some much appreciated help on how to set it up correctly.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:51 AM
I do have that stud. Don't really like cutting stuff that is hard to find(not in your average store) but if that fixes the problem then that's what I have to do.
Posted By: PC-CHARGER
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:56 AM
I agree that the transmission throttle linkage is likely the source of your cable sticking plus it is setup wrong. The bolt and washer that are holding the slotted link to the carb linkage look to be at a slight angle and binding. As mentioned, this should be a smooth stud and the link should be adjusted so the back part of the slot is right up at the stud, not the forward part of the slot. The idea of the long slot is that if the transmission linkage were to bind and not return for some reason, the slot would allow the throttle to return to idle. Besides, with the way it is set now, it is not operating the transmission linkage properly either.
Posted By: stinger
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 04:18 AM
Quote:
I do have that stud. Don't really like cutting stuff that is hard to find(not in your average store) but if that fixes the problem then that's what I have to do.
don't understand why you would have to cut anything. if you have the stud then install it where you have the bolt. you could also try a long bolt,two nuts and a few washers as long as the slide link slides freely back and forth with no bind.
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 04:23 AM
The factory throttle cable is available from different sources... An E-body uses the same cable.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-71-74...=item3a6645764dFrom what I see the kick-down plate(slotted) is touching the wrong end of the carb stud. It should be on the back-end that way when you give it gas it starts to put pressure on the tranny throttle valve right away. so even with the correct stud the tranny kick-down won't work right. need to adjust rod out or replace it with a longer one. I probably have it but seeing you need it now...
Posted By: 52savoy
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 04:38 AM
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 04:57 AM
There isn't enough clearance with the edelbrock adapter.
Quote:
don't understand why you would have to cut anything. if you have the stud then install it where you have the bolt. you could also try a long bolt,two nuts and a few washers as long as the slide link slides freely back and forth with no bind.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:00 AM
I did adjust it out about half way. I realize it was wrong at the time.
Quote:
From what I see the kick-down plate(slotted) is touching the wrong end of the carb stud. It should be on the back-end that way when you give it gas it starts to put pressure on the tranny throttle valve right away. so even with the correct stud the tranny kick-down won't work right. need to adjust rod out or replace it with a longer one. I probably have it but seeing you need it now...
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:18 AM
New pic with some changes. Didn't have a clip so had to use some safety wire. Here you see the clearance. If I adjust the kickdown anymore the kickdown snaps down forward.
Posted By: Golden-Arm
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:24 AM
i didnt cut mine, why i mentioned to ignore the writing. i mounted the stud, facing outwards, where you have the kickdown bolted. a "hairpin" clip on the inner groove, a washer, the linkage, washer and another hairpin clip, is what i did to make mine work. double springs, and i verified it all worked, and operated smoothly, and freely, before driving. small block with an edelbrock performer and linkage kit, basically the same deal as yours. i also used the factory throttle cable, with no issues on mine.
Posted By: stinger
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:29 AM
ok I think I see the issue now.are you running a performer rpm intake? if so you will need to buy a throttle bracket that is taller.
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/thbrwiki3ve.html
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:31 AM
Well I had to cut it. No way to use it with out doing that. Just too long. When I upgraded to the 360, the throttle cable was too short and didnt work with the carb linkage.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 05:33 AM
I also only have the single piece kickdown. I'm running a RPM Airgap intake which is tall.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 06:06 AM
So I took the car out for a test drive and the throttle is good now. No more wide-open throttle. However, with the kickdown adjusted like it is, feels like its running in 3rd. It starts out fine, then at around 25-30mph, it sounds like a wimpy little shift and bogs down after. No more power. That kind of loss in power you see when a catalytic converter is plugged.
Posted By: feets
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 05/30/11 03:50 PM
You need to get the proper throttle cable bracket.
Look here:
http://arengineering.com/throttlebracket/Tbracket/tbracketframe.htmlOnce you get that fixed we can help you get things sorted out.
Step 1: get the correct throttle cable bracket
Step 2: install said bracket
Step 3: get back to us so we can help you get it working properly.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 03:14 AM
So I found the Lokar throttle cable at o'reilly's. I replace the kickdown with the 3 piece and now I see some of the problems that i had. The original 1 piece for the 2 bbl DOES NOT WORK with the 4 bbl at all. It is too short no matter what. So you will see in the pic what my issue is. The throttle cable is catching on the kickdown and need to know if there is another way of doing this before I cut the cable to fit. Can I add some length and leave a longer loop of cable to avoid the kickdown? I was hoping I didnt have to buy the kickdown cable, seeing how they didnt have it in stock.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 03:16 AM
Before changing the kickdown position.
Posted By: pishta
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 03:35 AM
3 piece is the way to go. much easier to work with than a rube goldburg cable setup in my opinion. you can alter the length (or where the stud contacts)of the slot with a set screw and nut, slide it to where the full kickdown is (push back with hand)and the throttle is WOT, and tighten.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 03:42 AM
Yeah I like it a lot and would hate take it back out for a cable. I knew when I hooked it up it was right immediately. Its adjusted right, shifts good. The only issue left is clearance and then can verify whether it stopped the Christine effect.
Posted By: StealthWedge67
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 05:57 AM
Quote:
New pic with some changes. Didn't have a clip so had to use some safety wire. Here you see the clearance. If I adjust the kickdown anymore the kickdown snaps down forward.
You need to lengthen the rod that holds the slotted carb linkage. Carb linkage stud needs to be against the rear of the slot so it pushes the rod immediately. (the only reason its slotted is so it doesn't accidentally hold the carb at WOT.) To set it up properly, you'll also need a taller bracket so the rod pushes straight back, instead of at a downward angle. Being able to weld and fab metal is a big plus in this endeavor. If you can't do those things, find someone that can. Lengthening the rod and extending the bracket that holds the throttle cable and provides the fulcrum stud for the kickdown rod should be pretty easy for a good metal fab. guy.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 11:14 AM
I've always wondered why the kickdown linkage had that huge long slot on it with springs holding it forward when everyone says to hook it up so it's full back at WOT, and then lock it down.
to prevent jamming the throttle at WOT makes sense!
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 06:08 PM
Well the kickdown was replaced as stated a few posts ago for the 3 piece. A taller bracket isnt my issue, nor is it a kickdown adjustment now, its the placement of the throttle cable. When both overlap, they are going to jam up.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 06:25 PM
If it still gets stuck now, then Im thinking that its either the carb is getting jammed at the butterflies, something else internal with the carb, or somehow bad motor mounts. There is nothing else left at this point.
make sure none of the carb linkage on the other side is not getting held up on the intake or carb base gasket.
should check the butterflys and base gasket as well.
the mount would have to be broken and engine lifting a good amount to stick the throttle at WOT...it can happen though
are you sure that throttle cable is not frayed and sticking in the cable housing itself?
some more pics would be nice
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 06:32 PM
I just replaced the cable with a lokar yesterday. I did check the old one and there was NO fraying at all.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 06:59 PM
More pics...
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/13/11 07:02 PM
and more...I know what the cable looks like in the pic..coming out of the firewall it looks like its kinked, it is not i guarantee.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/14/11 02:06 AM
So I took the carb apart just now and guess what I found in the fuel bowl? Metal debris. small as a grain of sand but no smaller. just enough to....keep the needles from closing. Which would also explain why I had to adjust the idle a few times after this all started. Will update with the results.
It is aluminum. not steel. One thing i didnt mention was the car tried to go through the garage over the weekend. Just trying to get it back in there at idle-low throttle and whoomp 4k. came within about 2 feet of the inside back wall. I checked everything after shut off and found nothing. No stuck throttle cable. This all tells me that it has to be whats in the fuel bowl right now.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/14/11 03:46 AM
Well, metal everywhere...in the nozzles, tapped it and metal just fell out of them. I think its time for a Holley.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/14/11 02:20 PM
debris holding a needle open isn't going to make you spike to 4,000 rpm. you need AIR to match that gas, or you go rich maybe stalling out if it's TOO rich and you flood it.
but, if you have metal everywhere, and the carb is starting to wear out, maybe the butter flies were sticking open because they're worn out?
I see nothing that would jamb open with the linkage you posted pics of.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/16/11 08:45 PM
So I'm sure now what it is. Broken motor mount. I know it was previously suggested and should have checked better. From a stop the front drivers side lifts up and slams back down hard as of the last few days. I knew exactly what to check....the left engine mount. Jacked the car up and put it on stands and lifted the engine with a jack. The mount is completely cracked and separated. I think there was just too many problems that compounded the WOT problem. Thanks to everyone.
Posted By: GasHog72
Re: Almost died today, 3 times - 06/16/11 08:59 PM
FuryUs:
Quote:
Broken motor mount allowing it to move and bind up?
To give credit for a right on the mark answer.
And to everyone else for the throttle and kickdown setup issues, thanks.