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A833 stuck in gear
Posted By: A990
A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 10:43 PM
What would make this happen? Im not sure if its 1st or 2nd, but I cannot move the lever at all.
I had the shifter out to replace the Hurst handle, and after I got it all together I discovered this problem.
Any suggestions would be appreciated
Posted By: hemigod426
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:09 PM
many times that happens with sloppy shifter mechs it trows 2 gears at once and jams. take rods off tabs netreul trans out should free it up.
Posted By: 85_Ram_4speed
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:09 PM
You probably need to readjust your shift rods if you had the shifter out. I assume it is a hurst shifter. If so there is a hole in the side that you put a rod (I use an allen wrench) through and it lines up all the levers on the shifter in neutral. Then making sure the trans is in neutral on the gears, readjust the adjusters to drop back in the holes on the shifter levers.
You probably have it slightly caught between two gears on the shifter---or the trans. With the earlier 833 side covers, this is rather easy to do. Not so much on the later side covers but still possible. Simply removing the shifter rods from the shifter and readjusting everything as above should cure the issue.
One thing I will add is no matter what, when I lined up the levers on my different transmissions I used in my Dart and even with different shifter bodies, I could never insert the allen wrench so it would also go through the reverse lever and have everything work as intended, (luckily thats the last lever in line). So i would just do it to the foward gears and do the reverse seperate and never had an issue. Not sure why it happened, but If I lined up reverse like I was supposed to, I could never get it to go in. So this is the way I do it now. Besides, I am more concerned with foward gears than anything---hate missing a shift due to any mis-alignment.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:11 PM
Did you adjust the rods? You can slip a 1/4" drill bit through a hole in the bottom of the shifter (there is a 1/4" in each of the throws) then adjust your rod ends for the correct distance to reach when the tranny is in neutral.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:16 PM
OK I was kinda vague. I have the shifter unhooked from the levers. I cant move the 1-2 lever at all. When the clutch pedal is pushed, the DS will turn by hand.
3-4 and reverse levers move normally.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:35 PM
Quote:
OK I was kinda vague. I have the shifter unhooked from the levers. I cant move the 1-2 lever at all. When the clutch pedal is pushed, the DS will turn by hand.
3-4 and reverse levers move normally.
So its a tranny issue, not shifter. Is the 3-4 lever anf the reverse lever in neutral when you try to move the 1-2???
You may have to take off the sideplate and inspect. The detent ball system in the side plate is pretty picky about being in the 'just right' position to allow its the other lever to move--Meaning either 1-2 OR 3-4 has to be EXACTLY centered in neutral to allow the other lever to move.
You could also have a shift fork issue inside.
Posted By: topside
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/29/11 11:49 PM
If it's been hard to pull the shifter out of reverse, try loosening the side-cover bolts and tapping the side-cover upwards; it won't move much, only takes a few thou. Then re-tighten the bolts. Just a tad too low creates an interference that will jam 1st/2nd gear but will allow 3rd/4th.
Put a large crescent wrench on the bottom of the forward trans lever and pull the it rearward to un-jam it.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 12:43 AM
Topside you are da MAN!!!
Shifting the side case released it. I cant thank you enough as I am thrashing on this thing for a show in July.
Whats weird is it shifted fine with the wrong trans mount that had the 1-2 lever rubbing the crossmember. I guess that bind was shoving up enough to force things to work.
This poor car has been a poster child of how extreme brand X dealers cut corners to get a car sold
Where to send the brewskis?
Ken and Ramona
Posted By: topside
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 01:29 AM
Hey, it's one of those DAMHIK deals; I had that problem, and someone here (whose name I unfortunately can't recall) offered that suggestion. We BOTH owe him a brewski!
There's a "shoe" for 1-2 engagement that's oh-so-close to the one for Reverse.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 01:59 AM
Well not so fast
I torqued the bolts to 15 ft lbs
the trans is locked as is the ds
The FSM states that certain bolts go in certain holes. Would this have any effect?
Posted By: topside
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 02:16 AM
Crrrraaap.
I don't recall certain bolts/certain locations, but it's worth a try.
On mine, I just loosened the bolts a bit, pried with a large screwdriver to hold the cover "up", then re-tightened the bolts. Probably grunted 'em to about 20 ft/lbs or so, didn't measure.
DS will always feel "locked" with car in gear, if I understand you correctly.
Have you adjusted the shifter, and were you using it to change gears? Does it have the correct forks & detents in it? Are the levers & rods installed correctly (not contacting/binding each other)?
Posted By: CKessel
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 02:34 AM
Some of the bolts on the side cover have a dowel type head near the hex. They go into certain holes on the side cover. These holes are a little bigger than the others. Your problem sounds like a broken shift fork. The bronze ones will break off where the engage the shift shaft on the cover. If it is broken and bronze, get the steel replacements for both 1-2 & 3-4. The steel ones were used like 70 and later. They had an extra tip on them that engaged some other levers in the later shift mechanism but you cut them off to work in the earlier covers. Old DC trick that was listed in the trans section.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 03:16 AM
Yeah this is just great
OK so to clarify
1. The shifter is disconnected
2. I cannot move the 1-2 lever on the trans
3a. With the clutch in I can move the DS
3b. Since the DS will turn, then I know 3-4 and Reverse are in neutral
So tomorrow afternoon I will pull the plate and inspect the forks and report back (btw gear lube is so stinky!)
Posted By: ehbody
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 03:47 AM
I once had this happen in 2nd gear.
I cannot remember for certain, I think I cracked/bent the brass fork. But it allowed the clutch sleeve to run up too far and then the shift strut/keys got stuck behind it.
I sure hope this didn't happen. Wasn't hard to fix but what a pain.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 02:13 PM
Quote:
Crrrraaap.
I don't recall certain bolts/certain locations, but it's worth a try.
On mine, I just loosened the bolts a bit, pried with a large screwdriver to hold the cover "up", then re-tightened the bolts. Probably grunted 'em to about 20 ft/lbs or so, didn't measure.
DS will always feel "locked" with car in gear, if I understand you correctly.
Have you adjusted the shifter, and were you using it to change gears? Does it have the correct forks & detents in it? Are the levers & rods installed correctly (not contacting/binding each other)?
All the bolts but 2 in the lower right corner have a SHOULDER , all of them but ONE are the same length , the longer one goes on the right side in the middle to align the cover.
Sounds like you still have a cover alignment issue .
Quote:
3a. With the clutch in I can move the DS
3b. Since the DS will turn, then I know 3-4 and Reverse are in neutral
WAIT !!!
With the clutch in ... you will be able to turn the drive shaft regardless of what gear the transmission is in.
You can turn the D/S because the clutch is engaged .. Not because it's in neutral.
Frank
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 04:17 PM
A990----Can you move the reverse gear lever (at the tranny) back and forth by hand?
If YES, you do not have an alignment issue. The problem is elsewhere.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/30/11 04:33 PM
Pacnorth I can move the reverse lever very easily
I just go off work, and will get into this later today. I'll check back in at that point
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear - 05/31/11 12:17 AM
OK Im gonna pull this trans. The forks look fine, however the detent balls and a spring dropped into the case somewhere.
While Im at it I'll make sure the 1-2 gear set are sliding correctly before I button it back up
So since the forks arent broken, any other thing they need inspected for?
Appreciate the help. Plus I see another member has shift issues too.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear ...breaking news... - 05/31/11 02:48 AM
OK so I gotta get ready for another workshift, so Im done for the evening.
So far I found all 5 parts of the detent system, and so the side case is back together.
Meanwhile the side cover gasket is in pieces. Would Hylomar work OK or do I need to use cork?
What gear lube? Might as well replace what I drained. FSM says 140 wt or 90 if cold weather causes stiffness. How would ATF 4 affect things? I have plenty
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: A833 stuck in gear ...breaking news... - 06/01/11 12:46 AM
Did you put the side cover back together on the bench and test it? The 1-2 lever should be locked unless the 3-4 ball is exactly in the detent, and vice-versa.
Check that.
Your 1-2 and 3-4 sliders (the big round groove that the ends of the shift forks fit into) should be able to slide back and forth.
As far as lube, I would NOT use ATF, even thought some do. Get a 75w90 or 80w90 GL-4 (not GL-5) gear lube.
GL-4's are hard to find unless you look at Synthetics. Most all are GL-5 (formulated for rear-ends and not real brass-synchro compatable.
Redline makes a few, Pennsoil Synchromesh is good. Amsoil makes em too.
Posted By: A990
Re: A833 stuck in gear ...breaking news... - 06/01/11 01:31 AM
Quote:
The 1-2 lever should be locked unless the 3-4 ball is exactly in the detent, and vice-versa.
Check that.
That's exactly what happened. 3/4 locks out 1/2 and vice-versa.
Quote:
Your 1-2 and 3-4 sliders (the big round groove that the ends of the shift forks fit into) should be able to slide back and forth.
Will check tomorrow (I got called in for an early shift, no progress today)
Quote:
As far as lube, I would NOT use ATF, even thought some do. Get a 75w90 or 80w90 GL-4 (not GL-5) gear lube.
GL-4's are hard to find unless you look at Synthetics. Most all are GL-5 (formulated for rear-ends and not real brass-synchro compatible.
I appreciate this truth, I have a 05 SRT-4 and didn't understand why the transaxle gets away with ATF-4. I forgot about the brass synchros
Quote:
Redline makes a few, Pennzoil Synchromesh is good. Amsoil makes em too.
What about Royal Purple? There's a dealer here in town
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: A833 stuck in gear ...breaking news... - 06/01/11 02:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
The 1-2 lever should be locked unless the 3-4 ball is exactly in the detent, and vice-versa.
Check that.
That's exactly what happened. 3/4 locks out 1/2 and vice-versa.
Quote:
Your 1-2 and 3-4 sliders (the big round groove that the ends of the shift forks fit into) should be able to slide back and forth.
Will check tomorrow (I got called in for an early shift, no progress today)
Quote:
As far as lube, I would NOT use ATF, even thought some do. Get a 75w90 or 80w90 GL-4 (not GL-5) gear lube.
GL-4's are hard to find unless you look at Synthetics. Most all are GL-5 (formulated for rear-ends and not real brass-synchro compatible.
I appreciate this truth, I have a 05 SRT-4 and didn't understand why the transaxle gets away with ATF-4. I forgot about the brass synchros
Quote:
Redline makes a few, Pennzoil Synchromesh is good. Amsoil makes em too.
What about Royal Purple? There's a dealer here in town
ATF type F,ATF4, Dextron-Mercon3 or any other atf is fine 
see the other post on ATF in a NP833 
They came from the factory with ATF 