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Race Fuel in a street car

Posted By: wally426ci

Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 07:23 PM

I thought about expirementing with 100 octane race fuel in my 412 stroker. I dont race, but i figured it may be neat to mess around with a gallon added to end in a full tank.

Are there any concerns, negatives? postitives?

I am no expert, so I am not looking for responses that say "whats the point?"

I thought it may put a little more pep in my step.

$8.98 a gallon at Sunoco up the street from me and you can pump straight into the car up to $140.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 08:08 PM

Quote:

Are there any concerns, negatives? postitives?


the (only) negative afaik is that it will flatten your wallet. The positive is it's the best plan for a high DCR/fast curve eng to elim deadly pinging. You'd want to add your quantity in the middle of the tank or else slosh it around thoroughly for a uniform mix. If you build a monster it needs to b fed properly. EDIT Forgot about the lead content advantage for your valves/seats but it'd take alot more than a gallon to have a positive effect on that
Posted By: 440child

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 08:14 PM

I did it a long time ago in a 440 '67 GTX I had. Just 1 tank, but I could really tell the difference. I also have a friend that was in the Navy back in the day, he said he used to run straight avgas in his when he came home on leave. Said it was almost like having nitrous .
Posted By: Kirby

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 08:23 PM

Smells good!
Posted By: RoadRunner

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 08:32 PM

Quote:

Smells good!


Posted By: therocks

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 09:14 PM

One gallon in a full tank wont do anything but waste $$$$$.I run 112 in my 440 on the street at times.It has 12.5 domes so it helps.Usually I just run 93 and keep my foot out of it.Rocky
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 09:19 PM

Quote:

One gallon in a full tank wont do anything but waste $$$$$.I run 112 in my 440 on the street at times.It has 12.5 domes so it helps.Usually I just run 93 and keep my foot out of it.Rocky


we missed that completely & that is if it is pinging it'll take alot more than a gallon so I'd suggest if pinging is a prob & you 're not wanting to just experiment to use however much percentage is needed as you dont want to shorten the curve and no fun keeping your foot out of it
Posted By: 383man

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 09:48 PM

If its pinging then yes it will help with that. But if it runs fine and no ping just putting race gas in will do nothing. It will allow you to make adjustments to get more power such as advancing the timing but just putting race gas in the tank will not give it more power. You would have to make adjustments but when you go back to pump you will have to change it back. And in cold weather race gas is much harder to start the car on. Ron
Posted By: wally426ci

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 10:01 PM

Thanks Guys, exactly the feedback I was looking for. I was curious if it was worthwhile. I have heard that a 20% mix is good but not sure on that. I guess I will just keep on pump gas since i have no pinging issues.
Posted By: A34

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/20/11 10:13 PM

Quote:

Thanks Guys, exactly the feedback I was looking for. I was curious if it was worthwhile. I have heard that a 20% mix is good but not sure on that. I guess I will just keep on pump gas since i have no pinging issues.




What is your compression now and where is the timing set? 412 is a SB?
Posted By: wally426ci

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 12:05 AM

Yep, its a stroked 360.

Honestly, i sort of gathered this motor piece by piece and am not up on the specs. Im running a 4" stroker kit, eagle rods, KB pistons, comp cam - don't have the grind memorized.

stock 68 340 cast iron intake with 750 edelbrock. Runs great, but i never degreed the cam or anything so whenever the next time i rebuild my car - I will be stripping this down and going through everything to make sure it is all good.
Posted By: 72N96RR

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 12:25 AM

I used to run it 50/50 in my Harley..Clean burning and really livened up the bike..
A gallon will make zero diff in your car...try 4 gallons in a 16 gallon mix..
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 12:39 AM

My Moped has a 1/2 gal tank. I should go over to Ernies' & buy a quart of 110 race gas
Posted By: A34

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 02:05 AM

Quote:

I used to run it 50/50 in my Harley..Clean burning and really livened up the bike..
A gallon will make zero diff in your car...try 4 gallons in a 16 gallon mix..




If that doesn't help, go to a 3:1 ratio.
Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 02:29 AM

Quote:

If its pinging then yes it will help with that. But if it runs fine and no ping just putting race gas in will do nothing. It will allow you to make adjustments to get more power such as advancing the timing but just putting race gas in the tank will not give it more power. You would have to make adjustments but when you go back to pump you will have to change it back. And in cold weather race gas is much harder to start the car on. Ron




best answer so far! and I didn't know high octane was hard to start in cold weather.

If anything, you want the lowest octane the engine will run on without pinging for maximum performance. Octane has a cooling effect in the combustion chamber, and for maximum hp I think you want the chamber as hot as possible without pinging. If I'm correct (), more octane than the engine needs could actually lower your HP.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/21/11 02:49 AM

TOOOOO much octane can actually slow the car down.
Posted By: 63stabamatic

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/22/11 11:54 AM

I have a 440 that's 10.25:1. I run 50/50 mix with 100/93, works and smells great! I run 93 in the GTX with 9.7:1. The 100 I just bought was $7/gal!
Posted By: kb73rr

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/25/11 07:29 PM

The local community airport has 100/110LL av-gas. It's pure gasoline with 0% ethanol or mtbe. It runs in $6.00/gal range (here now) so 5 gallons costs like an extra $10. Bring your own can. If they ask for a tail number (N-number) you can make up any three digits or tell them it's for an ultralight (they have no N-number). Or you can do what I do, glance at your RR with a stupid grin. Take your rocket fuel home, add it to a half tank of 93, crank the timing ahead about 5-10 degrees and have fun. Disclaimer - destroys catalytic converters and O2 sensors and legal for off-road use only.
Posted By: David Lee

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/25/11 07:45 PM

av gas is not pure gasoline that is a myth that is old as I can think of. IT has a much higher lead content.

The main petroleum component used in blending avgas is alkylate, which is essentially a mixture of various isooctanes, and some refineries also use some reformate. Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/U.S. gal at 15 °C, or 0.721 kg/l, and this density is commonly used for weight and balance computation. Density increases to 6.40 lb/US gallon at -40 °C, and decreases by about 0.5% per 5 °C (9 °F) increase in temperature.[1] Avgas has an emission coefficient (or factor) of 18.355 pounds CO2 per U.S. gallon (2.1994 kg/l)[2][3] or about 3.05 units of weight CO2 produced per unit weight of fuel used. Avgas has a lower and more uniform vapor pressure than automotive gasoline, which keeps it in the liquid state at high-altitude, preventing vapor lock.

Buy real race like c112. I run in it my stocker and it has a real distictive smell to it. But beware you can get heavilly fined running race gas in your car. It has lead in it and the federal road taxes have not been paid on it.
Posted By: pishta

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/25/11 09:23 PM

Higher octane gas actually has a lower power output if measuring them side by side. High octane helps in pre-ignition with high CR motors and runs cooler, great in a radial motor, not so great in a V. I think RR/Merlin motors on takeoff had water injection and 50 PSI of manifold boost and liked about 130 octane. Did you know CNG has 130 octane? Gets you thinking about a 14.5:1 street motor on the fart that you can drive in the CA carpool lane!
Posted By: 67coronetman

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/25/11 09:34 PM

I run about 3-5 gals in my 12 gal fuel cell.! Works great for me.
Posted By: ademon

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/25/11 11:16 PM

Seemed to dry out my rubber lines very quickly & the dye in the fuel would tint the rear of the car
Posted By: rallye73

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/26/11 01:33 AM

110 worked great in my SRT-4, but it's got a high octane mode built into the ecm. It's got mopar stage 3 upgrade. High octane is good for 50hp on it vs. pump gas. Sorry guys...little off topic. I know we're not talking late models.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/26/11 02:06 AM

Quote:

Seemed to dry out my rubber lines very quickly & the dye in the fuel would tint the rear of the car




If it's "tint" the back of your car, then the tuneup is off.
I have to disagree...
To the contrary actually.

I have been selling at my business and using race fuel since 1984.
I used to run straight race gas in my street cars for many years, like 15.
Myself and freinds have run it straight in our 2 stroke dirts bikes, straight in jet skis, chain saws, weed eaters and many different gensets straight. So I swear to you too much octane and lead ain't gonna hurt any kind of engine(non computer). Sure it might hurt your wallet, but not your engine.
You don't want to run leaded fuel in a engine that uses O2 sensors, we sell a 100 or 104 octane unleaded for those engines.

Now the great thing about race gas, is that it has stabilizers and other additives that help for it to last a long time, drasticly different than pump gas, exspecially ethanol gas.
The reason I speak up is because it's wonderful stuff to store your car with. I store gensets with it and they ALWAYS start.
I parked my 360 74 challenger in my garage running in 1987 with straight 110 Turbo Blue which is a leaded race gas. I started that car about every 6 months or so, sometimes longer other times shorter until 2003. I swear, The car never moved or left the garage, I remember adding Turbo blue in 5 gal jugs during that time. It never failed to start.
Today I drive that car a lot with the same fuel tank, same edlebrock carb, same fuel pump, same stock original steel fuel lines.
That gas helps things like your fuel pump last and my rubber fuel lines have never suffered. Rubber hoses, carbs, valves, pistons all LOVE lead and racing gas has lead, just like the good old days.

So that's my take on it fron 25 years of selling and using leaded race gas.

Some guys didn't like smelling my dirt bike in the woods behind me, I told them then try to get in front of me? Eventually they would be running it and keeping up!

Seriously after a few years when prices starting climbing we cut back to 50/50 mix in our sport machines and muscle cars.
And I have run many gallons of ethanol gas from the pump while we are out of town with the car driving it in extreme conditions, all with the same fuel system that was subject to 100% race gas for over 15 years.
Drove it to the top of Pikes Peak 2 years ago, it made it to the top with no problem with unleaded 92 gas in the tank.

Posted By: DennisH

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/26/11 01:27 PM

91 Octane $hit gas here in California. 440. 9:5:1. No ping. Runs good.
Posted By: az426john

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/26/11 04:19 PM

As for fuel in a race car. Be sure to read your spark plugs at regular intervals as well as your oil level. Aviation fuel is a "slow burn" formula designed to burn with less oxygen at the upper altitudes. It also has a blue dye in it which can cause havoc with idle jets being that the dye can leave a white powdery substance that can restrict an orifice size. Aviation fuel is also a cleaner fuel and tends to strip oil (and sludge) from metal so checking the oil level should be mandatory. Lastly, several small bore engines run fine with it, while others may not. Large bore engines are up for grabs. Each is an individual case. Aviation fuel does not work well in my Chevy V8, or my Harley's. It does work well in the street sweeper, high pressure washer, forklift, etc. etc. I see a lot of formula racers using it. Fuel injected engines/racers generally have to retune to use it.
Posted By: NV69B7RR

Re: Race Fuel in a street car - 05/26/11 04:25 PM

Try some in your lawn mower
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