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Warped trans steels, what caused this ? UPDATE PICS
Posted By: 340Scamp
Warped trans steels, what caused this ? UPDATE PICS - 05/19/11 04:41 PM
94 Ram 1500 4x4 w/360 engine, 213,000 miles, burnt fluid and wouldn't go. Taking this apart and found the steels warped & burnt, clutches actually don't look bad. I'm replacing the convertor along with rebuild is there anything else I should look for for the cause. Obviously overheated, but what could have caused it? Thanks for any help.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 04:46 PM
Slipping clutch, the clutches don't look bad??? The clutches not holding caused those steels to warp like that. Clutches are GARBAGE , use the Hi energy clutches as a replacement if you haven't already bought the rebuild kit.
edit ... looking at the picture I see the rear clutch stack in the back ground , that's the front clutch , this was probably caused by the front drum having the inner piston seal cut too deep , there is a wider replacement seal to remedy this , it comes in the seal kit , if it doesn't specifically get one and use it.
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 04:46 PM
another pic
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 04:51 PM
As long as the thick plate is not warped also you can just flip it over and you'll have a fresh surface , otherwise replace it. do the same wit hthe rear clutch , flip over the thick plate but replace the inner plate and the scalloped spring plate (bellville sp??) under it.
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 05:44 PM
Correct John, it's the front clutch. I appreciate the help.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 06:10 PM
Before this happened did you notice a delayed 2-3 shift wit han RPM flare or the reverse engaging harshly ?
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 06:54 PM
I bought the truck with the trans already bad. I think I found the problem. The output shaft is seized at the sprag. Took tailshaft off and the output shaft will not move by hand. Had to put channel locks on it to turn it and still is extremely tight. Also can't get the rear drum off, band is loose but drum won't come off.
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 11:08 PM
Shaft was seized to the support. Had to cut it off, time to order more parts.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/19/11 11:10 PM
Quote:
I bought the truck with the trans already bad. I think I found the problem. The output shaft is seized at the sprag. Took tailshaft off and the output shaft will not move by hand. Had to put channel locks on it to turn it and still is extremely tight. Also can't get the rear drum off, band is loose but drum won't come off.
The lube circuit is plugged up the rear support is lubed by the fluid that runs into it from the rear line, when that clogs that is what happens . There is a modified rear support made by Sonnax that has modified lube paths for the mainshaft and the drum, you are going to have to force the thing apart and replace the mainshaft, the support and the rear drum.
Sonnax has 2 supports, one upgrade part # 22754N-01K and one with a larger OOD on the surface that the drum rides on so you and bore out the ID of the drum because they are expensive to replace, part # 22754N-02K
Posted By: jwilson 61
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/20/11 01:36 AM
you had better repair the check ball in the trans line up by the radiator or you will tear up the support again as the lube circuit to the support and intermediate shaft gets cut off by a stuck check ball in the line also check for good cooler flow..better yet remove the check ball and put a full time lube kit in the valve body
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/20/11 03:40 PM
Thanks everyone, here's another pic of the damage to the support & sprag roller basket.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/20/11 04:16 PM
Quote:
you had better repair the check ball in the trans line up by the radiator or you will tear up the support again as the lube circuit to the support and intermediate shaft gets cut off by a stuck check ball in the line also check for good cooler flow..better yet remove the check ball and put a full time lube kit in the valve body
Good point , if the converter wasn't the source of the trash that clogged the cooler circuit it's possible that the rubber line with the check ball failed .
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 01:05 AM
Where in the line is the check ball located? I traced the lines from the trans to the radiator and can't seem to find it. Also what does it look like? The only thing I found was a temp censor in the line next to the trans.
Posted By: jwilson 61
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 01:17 AM
usually found right where the lines turn from steel to rubber before the radiator cooler its part of the connector right at the steel line. it disconnects right there and you can see the check ball inside the connector. the full time lube really helps vehicles with remote starters keep from burning up front pump bushings and associated parts
Posted By: ChinooK440
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 01:49 AM
The output shaft seized up in my old dakota just like that , melted sprag cage and all. The factory check ball in the cooler line was plastic!!!
There,s an aftermarket fitting aviabile with a stainless steel check ball but the better fix is mentioned above .
Make sure you thoughly flush the trans cooler/s or even consider replacing the whole radiator.
Good luck on finding some resoneably priced hard parts and or a rebuildable core.
Posted By: 340Scamp
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 03:25 PM
What's the purpose of the check ball? Will taking it out create any future problems? Can I flush the system with compressed air, around 35 lbs. pressure?
Posted By: FuryUs
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 04:56 PM
I believe it's there to keep the converter from draining while sitting. Taking it out may be mean a slight delay when you first shift out of park in the morning.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 07:39 PM
Quote:
Where in the line is the check ball located? I traced the lines from the trans to the radiator and can't seem to find it. Also what does it look like?
Below is a pic of the check valve line; top is factory original, bottom is replacement.
The factory installed the check valve to prevent the cooler from draining back into the transmission through the converter. In older days the cooler was mounted in the bottom radiator tank near the level of the transmission but the newer crossflow radiators with side tanks place the cooler above the level of the transmission.
Removing the check valve might require placing the shifter in Neutral for the first start of the day.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/21/11 08:17 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Where in the line is the check ball located? I traced the lines from the trans to the radiator and can't seem to find it. Also what does it look like?
Below is a pic of the check valve line; top is factory original, bottom is replacement.
The factory installed the check valve to prevent the cooler from draining back into the transmission through the converter. In older days the cooler was mounted in the bottom radiator tank near the level of the transmission but the newer crossflow radiators with side tanks place the cooler above the level of the transmission.
Removing the check valve might require placing the shifter in Neutral for the first start of the day.
Hmm, this may explain my wife's 05 Ram's trans. Take it a bit to get going when you put it in gear. Bet the check valve is stuck open letting the converter drain back. So, where does one get the "good" check valve?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/22/11 06:45 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Where in the line is the check ball located? I traced the lines from the trans to the radiator and can't seem to find it. Also what does it look like?
Below is a pic of the check valve line; top is factory original, bottom is replacement.
The factory installed the check valve to prevent the cooler from draining back into the transmission through the converter. In older days the cooler was mounted in the bottom radiator tank near the level of the transmission but the newer crossflow radiators with side tanks place the cooler above the level of the transmission.
Removing the check valve might require placing the shifter in Neutral for the first start of the day.
Hmm, this may explain my wife's 05 Ram's trans. Take it a bit to get going when you put it in gear. Bet the check valve is stuck open letting the converter drain back. So, where does one get the "good" check valve?
Probably not the check ball sticking , later rams seems to have the drainback issue as delivered from the factory , tell her to start it , pop it into neutral and wait a minute , should be all set to go .
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/22/11 03:17 PM
This problem is fairly new to the vehicle, we've owned it since new.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/22/11 03:22 PM
Quote:
This problem is fairly new to the vehicle, we've owned it since new.
Not sure what line or where the check ball is on that year , follow the lines till you find the rubber line in the picture above , that has the check ball in it .
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/22/11 11:37 PM
Quote:
Hmm, this may explain my wife's 05 Ram's trans. Take it a bit to get going when you put it in gear. Bet the check valve is stuck open letting the converter drain back. So, where does one get the "good" check valve?
Although the factory calls it a converter check valve it's actually a radiator cooler drainback valve, nothing can prevent the converter from draining back...with or without the check valve.
The popular opinion is that there is no "good" check valve, they're all prone to clogging with debris from the converter clutch and causing the damage in the OP. Best to replace the check valve hose with a regular hose with no valve and make the first start of the day in Neutral to refill the converter.
Better yet, install a filter in the cooler feed line.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/23/11 11:41 PM
So. I go to my favorite online parts store, RockAuto, and I cannot find this hose listed. Anyone got any suggestions for a check vale free hose, or at least the threads at these fittings so I can install a good filter?
Posted By: fox
Re: Warped trans steels, what caused this ????? PICS - 05/24/11 12:28 PM
On the dodge with Cummins all we do is run a 2" drywall screw into the ball and it will pull right out. Then reuse the hose!!!