Posted By: rjh233
440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/16/11 03:04 PM
Hi everyone,
I'm looking to rebuild the 440 in my 65 Coronet for street/strip duty. I want to be able to run on pump gas to retain streetability. I live in NJ so I can get 92/93 octane. I am planning on a 4.15 stroker crank and rods from 440 source, with .030 over SRP forged pistons (p/n 231521 - 4032 alloy), Edelbrock Performer Alumimum heads (p/n 60929), Comp Cams Comp Kit CCA-K21-233-4 (290/298 .540/.558 - solid flat tappet) with Comp 1621 roller rockers (1.5 ratio), Edelbrock Performer 440 dual plane manifold (2191), Carter thermoquad, a 2800 stall converter, 3.91 gears (I also have a set of 3.55s and 3.23s to try out too if necessary) and 26 inch tall Mickey Thompson ET Drag radials. The cars has Mopar Performance Super Stock springs too.
With those edelbrock heads (84cc), a .039 gasket, knocking .010 off the deck of the block (guesstimate), on paper, the compression ratio works out to 10.75:1 and the pistons are .015 down in the hole.
Any ideas on what to expect horsepower-wise with this setup and what times I will run in the 1/4-mile? Are the Edelbrock Victor heads a good setup up, or are Victors too much for the street?
Suggestions welcome.
Thanks,
Rob
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/16/11 03:20 PM
poo poo intake. Get the RPM. With the thermo-q you'll need an apdapter. If you have a good WORKING thermo use if if not I'd just drop a few $$ on a 850DP. Also you'll need more stall w/ that cam, probably 3200 or so. And it will be a dog w/ 3.23, very Avg w/ 3.55's 3.91's will work. Headers? (I hope) as far as tack times, after you tune it I'd guess low 12's high 11's. Those are short tires so that will help get that thing moving.
Posted By: forphorty
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 01:18 AM
I agree with Mr Yuck here except for the "it will be a dog with 3.23s" part. With the parts listed and a better intake and converter your car should easily go high 11s no matter what gear is in it.My Satellite has gone lots of mid 12s (12.35 best) with an 8.5 440, barely pocket ported 906s with stock valves, Comp 292 hyd , old Torker, 750 DP. 10 inch converter, about 3800 flash. 3.23 gears and 28x9 et drags. Cheapo motor with not much power would only trap 106-107. Would pull a 1.69 60ft tho with those crappy gears and tall tires. Converter was doing all the work. I drive it on the highway quite a bit and 3.91s and a 26 inch tire would get old in a hurry for me.
Posted By: gch
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 01:33 AM
Run the street dominator intake if you want to run the TQ.Maybe a better intake for your setup no matter the carb.
TQ will need major tuning for the stroker.Be prepared to dial it in.
Gears won't matter much.3.55's for mostly street and 3.91's for more track.
Converter won't matter much with the torque of the stroker.Do get a quality converter with minimal slippage.
Posted By: sam64
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 02:17 AM
i vote for the performer rpm,unless you are planning spinning that thing 7,000.it picked my car up a bunch over a single plane,i shift at 6300.3400lbs
11.30s.leaving@2200rpm.
Posted By: Von
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 02:43 AM
Id go with a single plane...with 500 cubes I see no reason for a dual plane.
Unless it is the Indy intake with some port work.
SD or M1 should work well. More converter, maybe a Vic.
Id go more cam, converter and a Vic, but apparently (on this board anyway)Im pretty liberal....
Posted By: Von
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 02:58 AM
[quote Sounds like the converter is key. That's convincing me to spend the money for a good one for my specs
Right you are!!!
But, in Tims case (forphorty above) I believe his ETS were with.... a GER converter.
Im sure he will respond, but I believe he has a dyamic now and the car doesnt run any quicker. For sure not the general rule of thumb...But the GER worked.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 03:03 AM
Actually I was asking as I am converter ignorant but you (& others) are convincing me that it is a critical piece
Posted By: sam64
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 03:12 AM
yes the converter is very important,but you have to make all the other choices of your engine before you call anyone to spec a converter to your combo.
Posted By: 440charger500
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 04:30 AM
Everything sounds good to me but the converter and 26" M/T slicks. I've been there done that and I can tell you a 27" or 28" tire will hook better and go with the 3.91 gears. I bought a dynamics 10" 3500 converter and I picked up three tenths from another brand 2800 stall converter. If it was me I would run the 3.91 with 28" tire and a 3000+ converter. You will be mid 12'S or better and will drive on the street no prob.
Posted By: Von
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 04:44 AM
[quote m1 is no better than a team g i can guarantee that, [/quote
4500 flange Team G probably is better.. 4150 flange most likely not...
I discussed this very subject with Dwayne a couple of weeks ago. I saw how how much improvment you got going to a RPM and it had me thinking. But, after talking with Dwayne I have a better understanding of why you might have picked up so much with the intake swap...
Posted By: 383man
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 05:11 AM
Not a bad combo at all but I would make a few changes. More converter , a better intake and I myself would use a Holley DP carb for your setup. Its very close to my 440 other then yours will be stroked. I have the MP .557 cam that looks close to your cam by the specs you have. I run the Holley SD intake which should work nice on your combo. I have seen some strokers running the Performer RPM intake and they seem to work good on mild strokers. The RPM surprised me as how good it still pulls up at 6500 as my son uses one on his 400 in his Dart. Its a nice street/strip intake also. I use a Dynamic 9.5 converter that flashes about 4200 but drives like a normal converter. I really like that converter in my street/strip cars. I would say with a good intake (SD or RPM) and a nice converter with about 3800 flash and an 850 DP at least will really bring it alive. 11's should be easy for you then.
I am pulling my 440 out this week to put my new 493 stroker in my 63 and my old 440 will be going in my buddies black 65 Coronet 500. He does not want to put a roll bar in it so he does not want to go faster then 11.50's. My car went 11.49 with it so his 65 should run mid 11's and your's should run easy 11's and even low 11's if you really get aggressive with your combo. Got any pics of your 65 ? Good luck , Ron
Posted By: Von
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/17/11 05:28 AM
[quote whith the "long" 3.23's, that 8" converter works the tranny.
I cant agree with you on that. A quality 8 inch "tight" converter will "work" the tranny less than a "loose" 10 inch.
I havent had any issues with the 8.....tranny fluid never looks or smells burnt... I do have a good cooler though.
BTW, I wasnt suggesting a 8 for the OP(not that it would be bad idea), only giving my experience to RR.
To the OP, sorry for the hijack!!!
Posted By: ahy
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/18/11 02:38 AM
Comment on compression ratio and piston to deck height. With aluminum heads, forged pistons and a not too wild performance cam I'd prefer to see compression in the 10.2 to 10.5 range for street duty. It would be even better with quench (zero deck piston, .038-.040" gasket). Getting CR in this range with zero deck will require a "D dish" piston. Sustained running on the street puts a lot more heat in the engine than a run down the strip and detonation is no fun.
I don't think the 512 piston/rod setup would be a durability problem, however, the cubes would out run the heads. I believe the engine work/feel better with the 4.15 stroke and Ed heads. Either one should work fine with 3.23 and a 26" tire.
Posted By: Colin Frolick
Re: 440 build-up - How does this combo sound? - 05/18/11 06:38 PM
i have a motor alot like that... 4.15 crank, about 10:1, 0.039 quench, performer heads, 231/237 duration ~0.560" lift cam w/1.6 rockers, the lowly "performer" intake with a TQ, 1 7/8" headers, stock converter and 3.23s. it idles like stock and revs to 6500, but runs out of power around 5000. it is fun as hell to drive! i buy 89 octane and it won't ping, i attribute that to the tight quench. it doesn't overheat in the desert and gets about 10mpg. i last installed a 2.76 rear for freeway running, which is nice but killed the low end. next is a 518 trans and 3.73s, and definitely a bigger intake mainifold, and maybe a 250 shot of n2o