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727 Overheats!

Posted By: coronet1966d

727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 01:19 PM

what could make my 727 overheat bad enough to purge fluid out of the front seal after 30-45min of cruising?

i have a deep summit aluminum pan, and the biggest aftermarket trans cooler i can fit, im assuming its overheating it only leaks after driving and its a SERIOUS leak.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 01:28 PM

Hi Randy, not from overheating but from front pump seal needs R&R
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 01:38 PM

the seal is new
Posted By: moparts

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 01:44 PM

Over heating ?

Coming out the vent right above the seal?

The one time I overheated a trans it was coming out the filler tube also.

You sure that the trans was not just over full and fluid was expanding and coming out the vent
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 02:43 PM

A slipping trans will cause the fluid to overheat .
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 02:46 PM

its not slipping, it not shooting out of the dipstick either. i have a cheetah reverse manual VB and a mancinis 3200 stall converter
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 02:50 PM

Quote:

its not slipping, it not shooting out of the dipstick either. i have a cheetah reverse manual VB and a mancinis 3200 stall converter




Then you either have a blockage in the cooler circuit or it's overfilled which will cause the fluid to foam and come out the vent which may APPEAR to be the front seal.

Do you have a temp gauge and where is it installed ?
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 03:10 PM

its not overfilled either, this wasnt a small amount of fluid that came out. i could follow a trail a couple miles of fluid that dumped out. i lost 6 quarts total. the trans cooler is new, radiator is new and the trans lines are stainless steel pre bent and also new
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 03:12 PM

Quote:

its not overfilled either, this wasnt a small amount of fluid that came out. i could follow a trail a couple miles of fluid that dumped out. i lost 6 quarts total. the trans cooler is new, radiator is new and the trans lines are stainless steel pre bent and also new




Again , TEMP GAUGE location ???

sounds like a seal that was installed DRY and/or was damaged on install.
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 03:57 PM

like 99% of people on here i dont have a trans temp gauge
Posted By: Prodart440

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 03:58 PM

Just because the radiator is new does not mean the cooler in it isn't plugged. I would check cooler flow.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:07 PM

These guys are giving you sound advise. It probably has to be one of the above. Step back and start trouble shooting. take lines loose blow air through cooler see if plugged. (note: cover end of line with rag so fluid does not spray everywhere.) Blow air through radiator cooler, blow air through cooler lines, drive again. If its not cured sorry bub, but the seal is shoot or their is an plugged internal passage. Sometimes new stuff goes bad or gets damaged even with the best care. Unless its really simple thing you are just missing there is not a magic bullet. Trouble shoot and get back to us!
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:10 PM

Quote:

Just because the radiator is new does not mean the cooler in it isn't plugged. I would check cooler flow.




I Agree, disconnect the rear line at the trans & try putting it in a clear container, have someone start the car & put it in gear while you watch for fluid flow into the container... There should be a steady stream...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:36 PM

Quote:

like 99% of people on here i dont have a trans temp gauge




Well then what is making you THINK the trans is overheating ?
Posted By: 68dodge

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:47 PM

One thing I would do, is not run the trans fluid into the radiator cooler. I would only use the external transmission cooler.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

like 99% of people on here i dont have a trans temp gauge




Well then what is making you THINK the trans is overheating ?



Is the pan scolding hot? Is there burning fluid smell? Is there smoke? If not it probably not overheating enough to do what your talking about. If it is overheating trans is lunch already including possibly the metal heat treated parts such as drums and sprag.
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 04:52 PM

Quote:

One thing I would do, is not run the trans fluid into the radiator cooler. I would only use the external transmission cooler.





when i installed the cooler i considered this, whats the best way to do it? ive heard arguments for both ways
Posted By: modelmakerinc

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 06:44 PM

Coronet1966d

I will shed some light on this, It has happened to me several times. I asked the question here and got the same responses.

I started trouble shooting with fluid levels, too low? no difference! then to a trans temp gauge? no difference! back to fluid level, to High? no difference!. Then slipping converter making too much heat? change gears! NO DIFFERENCE. it still did it.

more frustrating? there is nothing worse than puking trans fluid through the bellhousing vent in to windage of the converter to spray out every different direction under the car and start to burn onto the exhaust.

I finally spoke with a trans guy and explained to me that with a Cheetah Reverse Valve body somehow it spins the drum over what would be considered normal and foams the fluid until it pukes out.

He suggested that I go out and run the car like an old lady for an hour cruise and see if it happens. then on a different day drive the car hard shifting and like you want to drive it and see if it happens.

It did it as he said it would.
grandma drive, no trouble!.

grandson drive, puke and smoke!

I am no tranny guy so I dont know the technicals and argue with some "Mopar Experts" about how that is not possible. but I did the experiment and it proved it to me.

The solution is to block the vent in the bellhousing and install one in the tailshaft or main housing. the dragrace only forum is the place to ask about the moving of the vent because alot of them experience this trans problem.

please keep me posted if you do this test so I know I am not nuts. Henry
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 07:26 PM

Quote:

Coronet1966d


I finally spoke with a trans guy and explained to me that with a Cheetah Reverse Valve body somehow it spins the drum over what would be considered normal and foams the fluid until it pukes out.

Henry




I'm not going to debate this one but from what I know of the internals of the 727 and how things are connected this is impossible , the drum is connected mechanically to the sun shell which is geared to the rear planet which is splined to the mainshaft and there is no way I can see for it to spin faster with a different valve body configuration.

That said, I missed the REVERSE manual VB part and this is a quote from CRT's tech page ...


Quote:

On 727s & 904s with Trans Brake or reverse pattern valve bodies, CRT recommends that you relocate the vent to the rear of the case. The stock vent is in the pump cover, fluid will leak out of the stock vent when using a trans brake. Drill the stock vent hole with a 11/23 drill bit, then tap the hole using a 1/8 pipe tap. Install 1/8 pipe plug. drill hole at the 11 O clock piston in the rear of case as shown in picture above and install new vent. Also block off the feed hole in the park gear, or you will have fluid spitting out the vent. See pic below


Posted By: modelmakerinc

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/29/11 08:50 PM

Ok, I can't debate what the internals are like I said (I plead ignorance to the reason it happens) I would love to hear why it happens to clear up what I was told. In laymans terms some one explain please. Any way coronet1966d the vent is the resolution.
Posted By: fox

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 12:47 AM

Make sure the lower cooler line is the feed. If you run it thru the cooler top down it may not cool correctly.Do you have acsee to an infared heat gun? You could use it to check the temps.
Posted By: Ramrod39

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 01:31 AM

Quote:

Make sure the lower cooler line is the feed. If you run it thru the cooler top down it may not cool correctly.




Really? Doesn't the pump push fluid through the cooler at same rate regardless of line orientation?
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 02:24 AM

well its cooked! i think its the pump or the planetary gears making a ton of noise
Posted By: BRONZEBEE

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 04:19 AM

If your running road gears 2.76 3.23,with a 3200 stall might give you a problem.I think it will overheat the fluid in the converter,because the stall is to high for the gear ratio.Example 55 mph 2200 rpm,3200 stall.Your stall speed should be below your crusing rpm.
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 06:06 AM

im running 4.10 gears
Posted By: modelmakerinc

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 01:04 PM

Well something in the story is missing. You said the tranny was leaking bad after cruising. If you read my reply then you know the valve body causes this problem (somehow). Now you say that it sounds like it is severely broken, that doesn't happen from overheating. Did you romp on it in first and let off hit it again, if your valve body doesn't have low band apply then that is what probably broke the internals and be happy that it didn't come apart entirely :-(
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: 727 Overheats! - 04/30/11 11:07 PM

Quote:

well its cooked! i think its the pump or the planetary gears making a ton of noise




Call me if you need help pulling it John. I've got the 5A all tore apart right now in the middle of a 518 swap.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: 727 Overheats! - 05/01/11 07:41 AM

I had a torque converter with a crack in the hub where it goes into the pump and it leaked pretty bad, but that was a 904 transmission?
I like the vent relocation to the rear of the transmission too.
Posted By: wheelsup68dart

Re: 727 Overheats! - 05/03/11 03:02 AM

Quote:

I had a torque converter with a crack in the hub where it goes into the pump and it leaked pretty bad, but that was a 904 transmission?
I like the vent relocation to the rear of the transmission too.




x2
Posted By: coronet1966d

Re: 727 Overheats! - 05/03/11 05:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

well its cooked! i think its the pump or the planetary gears making a ton of noise




Call me if you need help pulling it John. I've got the 5A all tore apart right now in the middle of a 518 swap.




ive been trying to get ahold of you, i dont think i have your number
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