Moparts

stuck dampener

Posted By: 70Cuda383

stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:43 AM

Need some ideas on a vibration dampner that I can NOT get to budge!!

trying to tear down a 408 stroker for a friend, and I cannot get the vibration dampener on the crank to move. I tried my slide hammer, but I couldn't get a good attachment point to it with the crank pulley bolt holes. might have to fabricate a plate to pull it. hope not though, that's a lot of time and effort just to pull it off!

tried beating the outer ring with a hammer, but...I think the dampener is, well...dampening the hammer blows!

I'd like to add some heat to it, but A--I don't want to hurt the crank at all, and B--my torch hoses are dry rotted and cracked after just 4 years, despite being inside the whole time!!
Posted By: 340SHORTY

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:49 AM

have you tried a normal 3 finger puller.. the ones that bolt to the balancer and uses the big center bolt..
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:51 AM

x 2 what the NUT says .....

ALSO it helps to use an IMPACT GUN on the big-bolt !
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 05:12 AM

Quote:

Need some ideas on a vibration dampner that I can NOT get to budge!!

trying to tear down a 408 stroker for a friend, and I cannot get the vibration dampener on the crank to move. I tried my slide hammer, but I couldn't get a good attachment point to it with the crank pulley bolt holes. might have to fabricate a plate to pull it. hope not though, that's a lot of time and effort just to pull it off!

tried beating the outer ring with a hammer, but...I think the dampener is, well...dampening the hammer blows!

I'd like to add some heat to it, but A--I don't want to hurt the crank at all, and B--my torch hoses are dry rotted and cracked after just 4 years, despite being inside the whole time!!



I ASSuME that the dampner is junk and that's what you are beating on it wit ha hammer ??? You need a balancer puller , BOLTS to the hub of the dampner and pushes against the crank snout to pull it off .
Posted By: pishta

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 06:04 AM

If you dont want to bring the heat, bring the ice! Get some of that freeze off, or cheaper, some dust off and invert the can while you spray the snout down. The white stuff coming out is liquid CFC (freon type stuff) and is some cold stuff. get as much on the snout as possible before your hand freezes to the can, and then use slide hammer or way better, a 3 bolt puller on the pulley bolt holes. Act against either the old bolt or use the cone adapter and center it in the crank bolt hole. And that damper is done after hitting it with a hammer. Thieves use the same stuff to freeze "The Club" theft deterent steering wheel locks, and then whack them with a hammer to shatter them !
Posted By: superwrench

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 06:24 AM

When I spun the cam dowel off my 496, I found out that the damper that was hell to get on was even "heller" to get off!!
We used a oxy/acet torch to gently warm the damper, but after numerous tries, it still wouldn't budge.
So...off to the fridge for a bottle of "ice" water.....heated the damper up again and shoved the open bottle of water right onto the snout of the crank and gave it a good squeeze while we had a lot of tension on the puller.
SNAP.....it cracked loose and off it come...albeit slowly but it came off.
Next damper was honed a bit to get the fit right.
Posted By: Mopar_Country

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 11:35 AM

Quote:

If you don't want to bring the heat, bring the ice! Get some of that freeze off, or cheaper, some dust off and invert the can while you spray the snout down. The white stuff coming out is liquid CFC (freon type stuff) and is some cold stuff. get as much on the snout as possible before your hand freezes to the can, and then use slide hammer or way better, a 3 bolt puller on the pulley bolt holes.



This sounds like a logical approach.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 01:18 PM

Got to use a puller made for dampers, hope you didn't hurt the damper by beating on it. Pullers are cheap and I bet you could borrow one from a place like AZ.

There too cheap to waste time building one.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 01:45 PM

DUH! forgot about a pulley puller type tool with the big center threaded cone to pull with. probably because I don't have one!

I've never had a dampener give me this much trouble before!

and, on this motor, not much is going to be saved. his throttle body lost a threaded stud, which got sucked down the intake and beat the snot out of a head and piston. all he plans on keeping here are the camshaft, crankshaft, rods, and block. everything else is already stripped off the block. (I think now I understand why it was stripped down to the short block and he said 'hey, can you do the rest for me?!' HA!)

but again, I've never had a dampener give me this much trouble coming off!
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 01:51 PM

Yep, borrow a puller from Autozone. Make sure you lubricate the threads on the puller to keep them from galling(especially if it is plated or you are using an impact wrench on it). Tighten the jack bolt in the center pretty tight and then smack the end of the bolt with a good size hammer. The damper should move. Just keep tightening and smacking the bolt everytime it gets loose and the damper will be off in no time.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 02:35 PM

Quote:

DUH! forgot about a pulley puller type tool with the big center threaded cone to pull with. probably because I don't have one!





Is there any other tool to remove a PRESSED ON dampner ? You can get one , called a steering wheel puller , albeit CCJ , at Vatozone for 20 bucks ....
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 02:51 PM

you just need a bigger hammer!!!

Posted By: feets

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 02:53 PM

You can also borrow the tools from AZ and O'Reillys.

Maybe the brute force aspect is the military coming out in him.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 02:55 PM

Quote:


Maybe the brute force aspect is the military coming out in him.



Posted By: bboogieart

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:02 PM

tried my slide hammer, but I couldn't get a good attachment point to it with the crank pulley bolt holes.

The best way is of course the proper puller, free if not cheap. But if you want to use a slide hammer it is no big deal just drill two holes in a piece of angle iron and use two bolts. will do the same thing. Your trouble is you don't have even pressure on the dampner. Probably ruined it any how. Should never need a hammer for a dampner.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:10 PM

And please use the install tool when putting on the new damper. Don't drive it on with the crank bolt if we see a thread asking on was size tap to use on a crank we know what you did
Posted By: bboogieart

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:15 PM

Quote:

And please use the install tool when putting on the new damper. Don't drive it on with the crank bolt if we see a thread asking on what size tap to use on a crank we know what you did


Good point the first time I used a puller I didn't put the crank bolt back in when removing the washer that was preventing me from doing the job, and got the puller stuck in the crank. Turned out the block was cracked so no real damage, but leason learned.
Posted By: buildanother

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:17 PM

Seen a fluid dampener or two that were a bear to remove. All others come right off with decent puller.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

And please use the install tool when putting on the new damper. Don't drive it on with the crank bolt if we see a thread asking on what size tap to use on a crank we know what you did


Good point the first time I used a puller I didn't put the crank bolt back in when removing the washer that was preventing me from doing the job, and got the puller stuck in the crank. Turned out the block was cracked so no real damage, but leason learned.

Some of the nicer pullers come with a insert to put into the crank so this doesn't happened.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:23 PM

Quote:

Seen a fluid dampener or two that were a bear to remove. All others come right off with decent puller.

Good point a fair amount of aftermarket dampers can bee too tight or too losse depending on the brand. To tight is not a bad as you cam hone it slighty to get a better fit.
Posted By: bboogieart

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:26 PM



Some of the nicer pullers come with a insert to put into the crank so this doesn't happened.


Yeah mine is a cheap one, but it had a button that goes on the end.
It was lost in the crank cuz I removed the washer, then didn't replace the bolt. Ruined the crank but I still use the puller just need to remember to replace the nut after removing the big washer. We live we learn.
Posted By: 540challenger

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:40 PM

Quote:



Some of the nicer pullers come with a insert to put into the crank so this doesn't happened.


Yeah mine is a cheap one, but it had a button that goes on the end.
It was lost in the crank cuz I removed the washer, then didn't replace the bolt. Ruined the crank but I still use the puller just need to remember to replace the nut after removing the big washer. We live we learn.

I got that topped. My friends dad who was a mechanic showed me how to remove a damper with the proper tool. So after using the PRY BAR i learned fast how not to pull a damper
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 03:46 PM

I just used mine this morning to remove a flywheel from a 12 HP Briggs on a old riding mower. It's one of the first tools I ever bought for working on motors, I'm on my 3rd one.

I ruined one trying to pull a welded on hub off a racing hemi.

Got one at home and at work.
Posted By: pishta

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:00 PM

C.A.T. dampers tell you to heat that bad boy up in a pan of boiling water prior to putting on. Imagine getting that thing off..Oh yeah, I did..with a balancer puller! Maybe a smear of anti-seize next time?

Tell us how that steering wheel puller worked out
Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:10 PM

The worst balancers EVER are the late model smallblocks with the one piece cast hub with the integral crank pulley.

You need something that grabs the hub from the inside to pull it.
If you can pull one of those, suddenly every other balancer is gravy.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Seen a fluid dampener or two that were a bear to remove. All others come right off with decent puller.

Good point a fair amount of aftermarket dampers can bee too tight or too losse depending on the brand. To tight is not a bad as you cam hone it slighty to get a better fit.



All the aftermarket dampners I have purchased come with a sheet telling the end user that the dampner must be honed to size , this is why they are hard to install.
Posted By: 70Cuda383

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Seen a fluid dampener or two that were a bear to remove. All others come right off with decent puller.

Good point a fair amount of aftermarket dampers can bee too tight or too losse depending on the brand. To tight is not a bad as you cam hone it slighty to get a better fit.



All the aftermarket Dampners I have purcahsed come wit ha sheet telling the end user that the dampner must be honed to size , this is why they are hard to install.



right. I don't think this one was honed to fit.

Ive never had one give me this much trouble. I'll have to get a puller and try again later.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Seen a fluid dampener or two that were a bear to remove. All others come right off with decent puller.

Good point a fair amount of aftermarket dampers can bee too tight or too losse depending on the brand. To tight is not a bad as you cam hone it slighty to get a better fit.



All the aftermarket Dampners I have purcahsed come wit ha sheet telling the end user that the dampner must be honed to size , this is why they are hard to install.



I guess because a damper must be firmly installed on the crank to absorb vibration.
Posted By: moper

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 04:58 PM

Um... Just buy the tool... The good puller/installer is $100. You're hammering directly on the crank. You might as well be throwing the hammer from the slide hammer at the crank... It's not hard to bend the crank doing that. Especially a cast crank...
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 05:03 PM

BETTER for the dampner to be a little tight ...than loose for the dampner to be effective.

B U T ... as tight as some of these are(as some are describing it) .....

How the HELL did they get the dampner ON the crank in the first place ? ......

...WITH a BFH ??
Posted By: Sport440

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 05:29 PM

Dont get a 3 finger puller. You want one that will bolt to the dampners base. I made one myself years ago with multiple holes to fit ford/chevy and moper dampners.
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 06:43 PM

The 3 fingers or legs are the only ones in-use 99% of the time. I loaned my Old Forged(USA made) one out to someone ... and never got it back and went out to bought a ChinaMart one(cause I was in a bind)....

Worked fine. but as I said above .... it worked better using a 24v 1/2" impact gun.
Posted By: Roger 68 Charger

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 07:06 PM

I just finished putting my dampener on (PRW) Man what a pain--I heated it up in water and used anti seize--but it went on hard all the way. The instructions didnt say anything about honeing and I didnt think of it

Man that thing is going to be a pain in the ass to get off
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 07:07 PM

my TCI Rattler was 2.5 thou pressed fit - I had it honed to 1.5 thou press fit - thats what was recommended by the machine shop.
Posted By: feets

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 08:32 PM

One thing to remember: any impact on the damper is transferred directly to the crank and thrust bearing.

If it's an engine you don't plan on rebuilding, don't hammer on (or off) the balancer.
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 08:36 PM

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 08:57 PM

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 09:09 PM

LIKE a wheel cyl hone ? ... or maybe a smaller dingle-berry ? ....I have TWO of these to "fit" down the road.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

I just finished putting my dampener on (PRW) Man what a pain--I heated it up in water and used anti seize--but it went on hard all the way. The instructions didnt say anything about honeing and I didnt think of it

Man that thing is going to be a pain in the ass to get off



Maybe it was written in a language you couldn't read ... like CHINESE ...

If you have an aftermarket crank you can't count on them being in spec eiter definitley should have done some measuring.

I would have stopped and not went all the way on with it if it was fighting all the way on.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 09:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 09:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .



I try to do everything myself, bad habit I have.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 09:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .



I try to do everything myself, bad habit I have.



It seemed like a precision operation to me so I thought I'd leave it to a trained professional , plus he only charged me 20 bucks. I'M like you though and I try to do as mauch as possible myself , which is why I rarely finish anything I think.
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 10:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .



I try to do everything myself, bad habit I have.



It seemed like a precision operation to me so I thought I'd leave it to a trained professional , plus he only charged me 20 bucks. I'M like you though and I try to do as mauch as possible myself , which is why I rarely finish anything I think.



It is a precision job, for sure. I have a dial bore gauge and a set of mics, No different than fitting bearings.

yup finishing stuff is the toughest unless you got a guy waiting to drive it, story of my life.
Posted By: 64Post

Re: stuck dampener - 04/08/11 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .



X2. ATI recommends .008"-.0011 interference fit. I mic'd the crank and dropped the balancer off at the shop. As it turned out the balancer was within spec as delivered.

These are the instructions that came with a buddy's CCJ balancer:

Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: stuck dampener - 04/09/11 12:25 AM

Posted By: POS Dakota

Re: stuck dampener - 04/09/11 01:03 AM

Quote:

I just finished putting my dampener on (PRW) Man what a pain--I heated it up in water and used anti seize--but it went on hard all the way. The instructions didnt say anything about honeing and I didnt think of it

Man that thing is going to be a pain in the ass to get off



Consider that a gift. Mine hit the timing tab before it even touched the crank when I tried to fit it...before I found it didnt fit the crank.

Onto the "shelf of stOOpidity" it went!
Posted By: BeEtLeJuIcE !

Re: stuck dampener - 04/09/11 03:44 AM

BEST to have to "fit" the dampner .. than have it tooo loose. I checked the new one I had ... and it might even have-to-be BORED-to-fit !! ...
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: stuck dampener - 04/09/11 02:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

To the guys that have had to honed-to-fit these things ....what have you used to do-so ?



A small engine hone...



I had it done at the machine shop , he measured it and did it in the rod hone .



X2. ATI recommends .008"-.0011 interference fit. I mic'd the crank and dropped the balancer off at the shop. As it turned out the balancer was within spec as delivered.

These are the instructions that came with a buddy's CCJ balancer:







question on the spec, .008 OR .0008 ??? .008 you would need to use a 100 ton PRESS to get that on ...
Posted By: GomangoCuda

Re: stuck dampener - 04/11/11 01:43 PM

Yep he needs another 0 in there for sure.
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