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Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 08:38 PM

I am looking for some advice regarding trimming the torsion bar crossmember on my 69 charger r/t. I need to do this to raise the driveline angle because my keisler tko-600 is contacting it and because of this my driveline angle is way to low. The headers hit on everything , the steering is almost touching the oil pan ect ect...

I am a little hesitant to cut into this part of the car so i am hoping you guys can give me some pointers.
Posted By: pnypwr

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 08:54 PM

id raise the nose of the car..looks pretty low in the pics...you dont have a alot of room to move there maybe 3/4 in either way
Posted By: Neil

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 09:36 PM

Would adding some spacers between the k-frame and the framerails help? Doing so would lower the engine and trans down away from the car body.
Posted By: ledft79

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:00 PM

I think that you'd be looking at a whole new set of problems if you did that. What would happen to your steering column angle where it goes through the fire wall, and the radiator shroud would stay with the body and the fan would drop with the engine, and the upper control arms would stay with the body and the lowers would go with the K-frame, which I'm sure would not leave you with a well handling car at all. I'd get some one who knows fabricating to build a new cross-member and trans tunnel to fit. I'm in the same boat right now with a 545rfe going into an E-body. The cross-member tunnel needs to be about 3" wider and 2" taller. My floor is out, which helps a lot.

Attached picture 6551089-01-12-201010;06;53PM.JPG
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:08 PM

Have you seen what the guys who install 518's into the 70 and earlier b-body cars have to do...?

Attached picture 6551099-2055906-transtunnel.jpg
Posted By: ledft79

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:14 PM

I would guess that that is similar to what mine will look like when it is done, although that looks like it could flex a little there when hammering the loud pedal.

Attached picture 6551104-01-17-201008;33;00PM.JPG
Posted By: JDMopar

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:22 PM

It's 3/8 steel...it ain't gonna move.
Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:34 PM

Quote:

Have you seen what the guys who install 518's into the 70 and earlier b-body cars have to do...?



That looks perfect
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/26/11 11:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Have you seen what the guys who install 518's into the 70 and earlier b-body cars have to do...?



That looks perfect



You will more than likely have to cut the tunnel also to clear the wider body of the trans .

this is why I'll be getting a Passon 5speed when the time comes , truly a BOLT IN .
Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossme - 03/27/11 03:04 AM

Quote:

It's 3/8 steel...it ain't gonna move.



how do you bend 3/8 steel like that?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossme - 03/27/11 03:20 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It's 3/8 steel...it ain't gonna move.



how do you bend 3/8 steel like that?



Would take a LOT of heat to get a 3/8 slab of steel that soft!
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/27/11 06:23 AM

Quote:

I am looking for some advice regarding trimming the torsion bar crossmember on my 69 charger r/t. I need to do this to raise the driveline angle because my keisler tko-600 is contacting it and because of this my driveline angle is way to low. The headers hit on everything , the steering is almost touching the oil pan ect ect...

I am a little hesitant to cut into this part of the car so i am hoping you guys can give me some pointers.






I'd look for other issues before cutting the upper crossmember, are you using the supplied lower crossmember that came with the kit?...I know on my 70 Charger Keisler TKO 600/650 install, I have approx 1" between the oilpan and the centerlink, and I'm running the 6pk/Hemi pan, I have about a finger's width between the upper crossmember and the top of the tailstock, the only interference I had was on the passenger side of the tunnel up near the firewall, but I also have an early prototype B body TKO from Keisler, which was even bulkier than the production kits released later,.... in fact I added a 1/2" spacer to the Keisler tranny mount to raise the driveline to match the factory angle,....what motor mounts are you using?, factory K frame?....are the motor mount brackets behind the ears of the motor?, if not, you've pushed the engine back some,......I haven't seen or heard of any 68-70 B body Keisler TKO 500-600 install needing the upper crossmember cut on....do you have a factory 4 spd hump installed?


Mike
Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/27/11 07:10 AM

I am using all the keisler parts that came with the kit. Factory style motor mounts and k frame. I have cut the tunnel some for clearance. I'll check the position of the motor mounts on the motor.
Posted By: Keith Black®

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/27/11 10:53 AM

I had to do similar mod's to DaytonaTurbo to get my T56 to fit and ensure driveline angles were correct. We got the angles right, then modified everything for clearance afterwards where necessary.
Posted By: mopardudetn

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 03/28/11 03:34 PM

Quote:

I am using all the keisler parts that came with the kit. Factory style motor mounts and k frame. I have cut the tunnel some for clearance. I'll check the position of the motor mounts on the motor.



It would be strange that you would have to touch the torsion bar brace. In all the years I worked there I don't recall anyone having to do that. Did you use factory engine mounts? I did have one customer that used and after market engine mount and it threw everything off. I wish I could remember the name of the those.

Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 04/07/11 01:05 AM

Here are pics of the car as or now.


See how low the headers hang and the angle that they hang at? They fit perfect before the 5 speed. This may be considered "normal" by keisler but I need to fix this.






The steering is grinding on the header, it did not do this before.

The center link is almost touching the oilpan
Posted By: boydsdodge

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 04/10/11 08:22 PM

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 04/10/11 08:43 PM

Wow that fit is terrible. Looks like the transmission needs to go way up in the back.
Posted By: NITROUSN

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 04/10/11 08:43 PM

I have a tko 600 kit and have none of the problems you have. Was yours an auto or 4 speed before? Did you buy the kit new from Keisler?
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 04/10/11 11:31 PM

.....2 questions for you, placement of the motor mount brackets, behind, or infront of the engines mounting tab/bosses/ears when veiwing the engine from the front,...next, are you running a 70 B body K frame in a 69 Charger
Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossme - 05/08/11 06:39 AM

Quote:

I have a tko 600 kit and have none of the problems you have. Was yours an auto or 4 speed before? Did you buy the kit new from Keisler?



4 speed. Got the kit new from keisler

Quote:

.....2 questions for you, placement of the motor mount brackets, behind, or infront of the engines mounting tab/bosses/ears when veiwing the engine from the front,...next, are you running a 70 B body K frame in a 69 Charger



motor mounts are in the correct place k-frame is not a 70 k-frame.

I ended up doing some cutting



Crossmember raised up and welded back together. I used 1/4" plate to reinforce it.


now look at how nice the headers fit. Just like they used to
before I installed the 5 speed.


next I will fabricate the new tunnel. Hopfully I'll have pics of this soon.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossmember - 05/08/11 01:49 PM

Quote:

.....2 questions for you, placement of the motor mount brackets, behind, or infront of the engines mounting tab/bosses/ears when veiwing the engine from the front,...next, are you running a 70 B body K frame in a 69 Charger



Mike why would a 70 B body K frame make a difference , it's the same K used in 69 starting sometime in March of 69?

I'm having a hard time believing that others don't have this issue with the Kielser install.

69, have you confirmed that your driveshaft angles are correct now? Nice work , can't wait to see the finished floor tunnel.
Posted By: RTSE4ME

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossme - 05/08/11 02:50 PM

So how much did you raise the rear of the tranny? I used a 1" spacer on my Challenger and still have clearance to the crossmember.

One thing I noticed little changes in engine position makes a big difference.
Posted By: 69charger440_6pa

Re: Need advice / ideas on trimming torsion bar crossme - 05/08/11 05:05 PM

The tranny is raised up to the factory position of the old 4 speed. I think I have about 2" of spacers from keisler inbetween the tranny and the mounting braket.
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