Posted By: sixty7gtx
4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/21/11 11:10 PM
Is there a lot of 4 door 426 hemi cars out there today??
4 Door HEMI cars?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/21/11 11:20 PM
3 or 4 that I'm aware of. 
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/21/11 11:22 PM
Listed below is a **ballpark** of what exists or known to have existed ***off the top of my head*** (this is not gospel...):
66 Dodge Coronets:
1 Red- auto: fully restored (Floyd Klyne car)
1 Gold- auto: undergoing full restoration (B/E@A)
1 White- auto: exists still, Gartlis Muesuem
66 Plymouth Belv II
1 Dark Green- 4 speed, Stolen/MIA
67 Plymouth Belv II
1 Blue- auto: Export car, in Finland.
If you did not see this before, you will find more info here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5735927
66 Dodge Coronets:
1 Red- auto: fully restored (Floyd Klyne car)
1 Gold- auto: undergoing full restoration (B/E@A)
1 White- auto: exists still, Gartlis Muesuem
66 Plymouth Belv II
1 Dark Green- 4 speed, Stolen/MIA
67 Plymouth Belv II
1 Blue- auto: Export car, in Finland.
If you did not see this before, you will find more info here:
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=0#Post5735927
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/21/11 11:42 PM
In the process.
Posted By: 68GTS383
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/21/11 11:56 PM
About 12 or 15 years ago there was a 64 or 65 Belvedere 4 door Hemi 4 spd at at the Charlotte Auto Fair in North Carolina.The owner said that it had been special ordered by a Sheriff some where because he was tired of being outrun during high speed chases.The car had been restored and I think he wanted 17K at that time.That was before Muscle car prices had gone crazy.The car and story seemed legit! I looked at the car a couple of times during the weekend but did not take any pics.Anyone else ever herd of this car?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 12:13 AM
Quote:
66 Dodge Coronets:
1 Red- auto: fully restored (Fred Klyne car)
1 Gold- auto: undergoing full restoration (B/E@A)
1 White- auto: exists still, Gartlis Muesuem
66 Plymouth Belv II
1 Dark Green- 4 speed, Stolen/MIA Probably existed but no VIN# to verify
67 Plymouth Belv II
1 Blue- auto: Export car, in Finland.
Quote:
About 12 or 15 years ago there was a 64 or 65 Belvedere 4 door Hemi 4 spd at at the Charlotte Auto Fair in North Carolina.The owner said that it had been special ordered by a Sheriff some where because he was tired of being outrun during high speed chases.The car had been restored and I think he wanted 17K at that time.That was before Muscle car prices had gone crazy.The car and story seemed legit! I looked at the car a couple of times during the weekend but did not take any pics.Anyone else ever herd of this car?
Then there are the "story" cars, there's thousands of those
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 01:58 AM
Quote:
66 Plymouth Belv II
1 Dark Green- 4 speed, Stolen/MIA Probably existed but no VIN# to verify
Scott- Was awaiting your (debating) input.
Short of a VIN, the following points have been brought forth and documented on this site- and since archived in the Best Of Moparts:
1) Date when car was ordered
2) Plant assembled
3) Date delivered to original owner
4) Dealer delivered to
5) Input on this board from the original/4th owner
6) Input on this board from 2nd owner
7) Date and location stolen from
8) Pictures from original owner
9) Picture from 2nd owner
The pursuit of verifiable documentation to authenticate rare cars is noted and appreciated- this is a must within any hobby. The .02 input always seeking to debunk, in the face of 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' information clearly presented, gets old.
There is nothing to be gained by myself or anyone else who had taken the time to provide this data. The only object is to show it did exist. If there is a goal here, it is to determine what happened to the car after 7/5/1980: what ended up being 'saved' and what was discarded.
Have fun.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 02:18 AM
Quote:
Scott- Was awaiting your (debating) input.
Short of a VIN, the following points have been brought forth and documented on this site- and since archived in the Best Of Moparts:
1) Date when car was ordered
2) Plant assembled
3) Date delivered to original owner
4) Dealer delivered to
5) Input on this board from the original/4th owner
6) Input on this board from 2nd owner
7) Date and location stolen from
8) Pictures from original owner
9) Picture from 2nd owner
The pursuit of verifiable documentation to authenticate rare cars is noted and appreciated- this is a must within any hobby. The .02 input always seeking to debunk, in the face of 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' information clearly presented, gets old.
There is nothing to be gained by myself or anyone else who had taken the time to provide this data. The only object is to show it did exist. If there is a goal here, it is to determine what happened to the car after 7/5/1980: what ended up being 'saved' and what was discarded.
Have fun.
You had me at "Short Of the VIN"
Nothing more needs to be said, I offered that it "Probably" existed at one time based on the reasons you cited. But 100% proof that it was a factory built H code Hemi car does not exist at this time, sorry. I really hope the car still exists (while doubtful) as if it surfaces we'll all know 100% FOR CERTAIN what it is/was.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 04:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Scott- Was awaiting your (debating) input.
Short of a VIN, the following points have been brought forth and documented on this site- and since archived in the Best Of Moparts:
1) Date when car was ordered
2) Plant assembled
3) Date delivered to original owner
4) Dealer delivered to
5) Input on this board from the original/4th owner
6) Input on this board from 2nd owner
7) Date and location stolen from
8) Pictures from original owner
9) Picture from 2nd owner
The pursuit of verifiable documentation to authenticate rare cars is noted and appreciated- this is a must within any hobby. The .02 input always seeking to debunk, in the face of 'beyond a shadow of a doubt' information clearly presented, gets old.
There is nothing to be gained by myself or anyone else who had taken the time to provide this data. The only object is to show it did exist. If there is a goal here, it is to determine what happened to the car after 7/5/1980: what ended up being 'saved' and what was discarded.
Have fun.
You had me at "Short Of the VIN"
Nothing more needs to be said, I offered that it "Probably" existed at one time based on the reasons you cited. But 100% proof that it was a factory built H code Hemi car does not exist at this time, sorry. I really hope the car still exists (while doubtful) as if it surfaces we'll all know 100% FOR CERTAIN what it is/was.
I guess you guys have a difference in opinion in what constitutes "beyond a shadow of a doubt" proof. I remember reading the other thread and unless I missed something, I believe the information presented (while compelling) falls short of proving that the car in question was a FACTORY built hemi car.
Refresh my memory if something more than grainy pictures of a hemi in the engine compartment exist. Did the original owner order a 4dr hemi car or bought it off the lot? Not one pce of paperwork with the VIN?
Dave
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 05:49 PM
Knowing something & proving something are often two different things.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 06:12 PM
From the archive on this topic- as quoted from my father's written account of all the Hemi cars delivered through Franklin Motors, Wyckoff, NJ in 1966:
""My car - Belvedere II 4 door sedan, forest green metallic with citron gold cloth interior, drum brakes, light package, foam seat padding, wheel covers, drum brakes, manual steering, wood grained steering wheel, 4 speed, am radio with rear speaker. The car was ordered by Franklin Motors on 3/22/66, and built almost immediately in St Louis, Missouri. It arrived at Wyckoff on Thursday, 4/7. I drove it as my only car for 72,000 miles during a 22 month period. In March 1968, my second cousin Allen Greg Bull bought the car. I believe he sold it to owner #3 who sold it to owner #4, who owned a gas station in Hackensack NJ. I bought the car back in March/April 1972, with 112,000 - 115,000 miles on it."
We do not have pics of the fender tag or VIN- tell me who was doing so back in the day. If old pics were available of these things, I'm sure they too would be to grainy to be of credible value anyway.....right?
The car was stolen in 1980- long before these cars had a resurgence in popularity and value. After years of saving registrations and old insurance cards, it was time to let go of the painful memory of the car being stolen: they were all discarded in the early 1990s along with the key sets we still had for the car.
The person who ordered this car has spoken here on this topic. Pics have been provided, etc.
Believe what you wish.
""My car - Belvedere II 4 door sedan, forest green metallic with citron gold cloth interior, drum brakes, light package, foam seat padding, wheel covers, drum brakes, manual steering, wood grained steering wheel, 4 speed, am radio with rear speaker. The car was ordered by Franklin Motors on 3/22/66, and built almost immediately in St Louis, Missouri. It arrived at Wyckoff on Thursday, 4/7. I drove it as my only car for 72,000 miles during a 22 month period. In March 1968, my second cousin Allen Greg Bull bought the car. I believe he sold it to owner #3 who sold it to owner #4, who owned a gas station in Hackensack NJ. I bought the car back in March/April 1972, with 112,000 - 115,000 miles on it."
We do not have pics of the fender tag or VIN- tell me who was doing so back in the day. If old pics were available of these things, I'm sure they too would be to grainy to be of credible value anyway.....right?
The car was stolen in 1980- long before these cars had a resurgence in popularity and value. After years of saving registrations and old insurance cards, it was time to let go of the painful memory of the car being stolen: they were all discarded in the early 1990s along with the key sets we still had for the car.
The person who ordered this car has spoken here on this topic. Pics have been provided, etc.
Believe what you wish.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 06:24 PM
FWIW - I believe the green car to be real.
I also believe the publicized 4 known 4-door HEMI cars are exactly that - 4 known of more than 4 built.
I also believe the publicized 4 known 4-door HEMI cars are exactly that - 4 known of more than 4 built.
Posted By: HPMike
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 07:12 PM
Quote:
From the archive on this topic- as quoted from my father's written account of all the Hemi cars delivered through Franklin Motors, Wyckoff, NJ in 1966:
""My car - Belvedere II 4 door sedan, forest green metallic with citron gold cloth interior, drum brakes, light package, foam seat padding, wheel covers, drum brakes, manual steering, wood grained steering wheel, 4 speed, am radio with rear speaker. The car was ordered by Franklin Motors on 3/22/66, and built almost immediately in St Louis, Missouri. It arrived at Wyckoff on Thursday, 4/7. I drove it as my only car for 72,000 miles during a 22 month period. In March 1968, my second cousin Allen Greg Bull bought the car. I believe he sold it to owner #3 who sold it to owner #4, who owned a gas station in Hackensack NJ. I bought the car back in March/April 1972, with 112,000 - 115,000 miles on it."
We do not have pics of the fender tag or VIN- tell me who was doing so back in the day. If old pics were available of these things, I'm sure they too would be to grainy to be of credible value anyway.....right?
The car was stolen in 1980- long before these cars had a resurgence in popularity and value. After years of saving registrations and old insurance cards, it was time to let go of the painful memory of the car being stolen: they were all discarded in the early 1990s along with the key sets we still had for the car.
The person who ordered this car has spoken here on this topic. Pics have been provided, etc.
Believe what you wish.
Ed
Not that you need my stamp of approval, but I believe this 100%. For a few reasons.
1) I cannot remember who I heard it from, but I am certain I remember people talking about that green car. Back in those days hemi cars were not that common on the street. And guys like myself were tuned into anything like this that was around. ANd I grew up a stones throw from you guys.
2) While it's a rarity and a novelty now, the fact of the matter is that back then no one did that type of stuff(plant a hemi in a car like that). It just wasnt that common-if at all. There were TONS of cool 2 door cars floating around to put a hemi into. Why bother with some 4 door? Doesn't add up.
3) And this is the most important fact. Back then almost NO ONE cared how a car was originally equipped. I bought a RAM AIR IV 69 GTO. Pulled the drivetrain and dropped into my Tempest Custom S. Didn't think twice about the originality of the car or any future collectibilty. Junked the RA IV car because it was hit in the front(very repairable, btw), but the Tempest was nicer, so....
I guess my position is that the proof is pretty overwhelming that this car is real. If you want to exclude it from "official" record because the VIN isnt on file, so be it.
MB
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 08:39 PM
Mike- Your input is always appreciated.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 08:42 PM
Quote:
I also believe the publicized 4 known 4-door HEMI cars are exactly that - 4 known of more than 4 built.
I am sure there were some others, besides those discussed here.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 09:36 PM
Quote:
FWIW - I believe the green car to be real.
I also believe the publicized 4 known 4-door HEMI cars are exactly that - 4 known of more than 4 built.
Well put. I also think the green car is probably real, but unfortunately no proof exists any more (or at least none has come forward) so I will continue to believe that is real AND undocumented. Sucks that the original owner threw out all the proof, but he did. At this point all there is left is the original owner's word, which I have no reason to doubt.......but it isn't proof. Dave
Dave
Posted By: ECS
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/22/11 10:55 PM
Quote:
In the process.
Howdy Mike,
That is one of the most BEAUTIFUL colors and body styles I have ever seen! That model is the quintessential example of what these cars represented back in the day. Keep up the good work! More pictures!!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/23/11 01:38 AM
Quote:
Scott- Was awaiting your (debating) input.
I think we got off on the wrong foot here. Please keep in mind that my post(s)were not some kind of personal attack on you (or anyone else), nor was it an attempt to debate you. As I said, the car probably did get built. However, I will refrain from using words to describe it such as "Absalute" "Documented" "Certain" when talking about a car that there is no known recorded VIN# to confirm it's originallity.
Another good example is the Dark Red Metallic 1967 Belvedere II Hemi car pictured on my website. It's one of those "One of None" cars that Chrysler claims were never built, yet there are a bunch of verified originals now, as well as the unverified but very likely, original dark red car I mentioned. I got the pic from the man whos brother bought it new, he had the dealer name, decent photos, and very detailed info on the car.....all but the VIN# that would have solidly documented the car. It was sold in the early 70's and hasn't been seen since.
Maybe someday it will turn up and put it to rest for good. Like others here, I also believe there were other cars built that have been lost to the junk yard gods or are yet to be discovered. Hopefully Darrell Davis will continue his work with Chrysler and obtain the IBM file records on the cars produced after 1965, then we can see just how many were actually built and put this subject to rest!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/23/11 01:38 AM
Engine
Posted By: 69superbee383
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/23/11 03:10 AM
Under " stories " back when I worked at a local CP dealership in 77 and 78 there was this old guy who came by wanting a mechanic willing to drive to his house to change oil do routine maint. The guy that took him up on it swore to us that the car was a 68 Belvedere 4 door police with the hemi. Of course he was called out on it and refused to show anyone the car. I do remember the parts guy remarking that if it was BS he was taking it to the extreme because when he ordered some parts he had listed the VIN starting RK41J and that the VIN was an early build.
I am 98% sure the story was just another of the thousands of Hemi tall tales. But that 2 % of me would like to think it was built and why not? It would be no harder to bolt a Hemi drive train in a 41 car than a 21 or 23 car.
I am 98% sure the story was just another of the thousands of Hemi tall tales. But that 2 % of me would like to think it was built and why not? It would be no harder to bolt a Hemi drive train in a 41 car than a 21 or 23 car.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/23/11 04:05 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Scott- Was awaiting your (debating) input.
I think we got off on the wrong foot here.
No problem Scott. It's just motivation to resume the quest in locating something with the VIN.
As for the IBM cards, since we have a known timeframe to deal with (3/22/66 - 4/7/66), it will help in this case should we ever have access to the information.
Posted By: ph23vo
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/23/11 08:49 PM
there was a rumored 66 coronet green 4 door here in seattle till the early 80,s or so when it was supposedly towed off the street [less engine trans] by the police .. may have been junked or? ...dan
Posted By: dan9
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 12:40 AM
If i remember correctly the white 1966 Coronet 4 door at Garlit's museum also had a sign that read "1 of none built according to Chrysler." I think Garlits felt it was built for the FBI.
Posted By: 64Post
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 12:58 AM
Quote:
I think Garlits felt it was built for the FBI.
Yep, they needed something fast to run down all of those UFOs...
Posted By: FC7cuda
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 02:22 AM
Hopefully Darrell Davis will continue his work with Chrysler and obtain the IBM file records on the cars produced after 1965, then we can see just how many were actually built and put this subject to rest!
The IBM cards would answer alot of questions on the 4-door Hemi cars and probably raise others. May have been more built than we think...
Tom
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 03:27 AM
Quote:
Garlits felt it was built for the FBI.
Garlits was one heck of a drag racer......However
Posted By: MO_PA
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 05:30 PM
Quote:
I think Garlits felt it was built for the FBI.
If this is the case don't you think there would be dozens of these 4 door hemi cars remaining.
Posted By: WINGCARS_6970
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 05:41 PM
Wasnt there a Floyd Cline 4dr
A old friend in Houston back when I lived there found a green hemi 4dr.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6543245&Main=6538953
A old friend in Houston back when I lived there found a green hemi 4dr.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6543245&Main=6538953
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/24/11 05:59 PM
Quote:
Wasnt there a Floyd Cline 4dr
It is the first car noted in my original reply on this thread. I have corrected the first name (I had it incorrectly listed as "Fred"). This is the red car in the other thread you linked.
Posted By: dan9
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 04:50 PM
When i was at Garlit's museum i wasn't about to question him on what he knew about hemi's or hemi cars. It is a cool car but i still like 2 doors.
Posted By: WINGCARS_6970
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 05:04 PM
Quote:Not sure if this is same coronet 426 4dr .A guy whos name was Curtis former sixpack performance employee/aquaintence?
there was a rumored 66 coronet green 4 door here in seattle till the early 80,s or so when it was supposedly towed off the street [less engine trans] by the police .. may have been junked or? ...dan
Advertised one .When I lived in Houston TX
Posted By: mike s
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 07:01 PM
I hesitate to add the 2-68 4 doors to the conversation. Start the flaming. Yes,no documentation or vin or DNA sample from the original owner. Baby Blue 68 Belvedere that sat on and off a Detroit used car lot for 10 years or so.I hope that some other Detroit area peeps will remember it. Lot was on the east side and still exists in a far east burb.I viewed the car several times and it was very real. Every summer it would go out on the lot then disappear. Never had the cash to buy it and no one else wanted it because it was a 4 door stripper.
2nd car was an Engr (red 4 door Coronet)car that I rode in.It was used in transmission testing. Did it escape to the outside? Dunno it may have but it was ordered as a Hemi car. There may have been others.
These are not 4th hand story cars they were real.
Flame on
2nd car was an Engr (red 4 door Coronet)car that I rode in.It was used in transmission testing. Did it escape to the outside? Dunno it may have but it was ordered as a Hemi car. There may have been others.
These are not 4th hand story cars they were real.
Flame on
Posted By: 64Post
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 07:38 PM
Quote:
... or DNA sample from the original owner.
Pics, I mean, DNA, or it didn't happen. 
Posted By: bordin34
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 08:30 PM
Too bad the Wyckoff dealer was one of the ones that got shut down. It was right down the street from me. For all we know they may have kept some records on the cars they sold.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 11:07 PM
Quote:
Too bad the Wyckoff dealer was one of the ones that got shut down. It was right down the street from me. For all we know they may have kept some records on the cars they sold.
They were all discarded when it transitioned from Franklin Motors to Wyckoff Motors.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/25/11 11:09 PM
Quote:Quote:
... or DNA sample from the original owner.
I CAN get the DNA from the original owner of the one I speak of: however it still is not enough!
Posted By: 64Post
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/26/11 12:20 AM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
... or DNA sample from the original owner.
I CAN get the DNA from the original owner of the one I speak of: however it still is not enough!
Then the DNA needs to be tested under the auspices of noted Mopar authority and guru one Galen V. Govier. And for a small fee...
Posted By: Dougsmopars
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/26/11 08:48 PM
There is a white 66 Four door at Don Garlits museum that was ordered by the FBI as a chase car. They test drove it and said it was too over powered. heheheHe has all the doc's on the car. All original unmolested. Pretty cool car.
Posted By: mike s
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/26/11 11:53 PM
My point of course was only to point out that anything could have and did happen when it came to odd combo cars.Remember everyone knew somebody that was in the dealers,the plant or engineering.
I wish I had the foresight to have a camera with me back then.
I wish I had the foresight to have a camera with me back then.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/29/11 04:00 AM
Update - I neglected to list 1!
Quote:
66 Dodge Coronets:
1 Red- auto: fully restored (Fred Klyne car)
1 Gold- auto: undergoing full restoration (B/E@A)
1 White- auto: exists still, Gartlis Muesuem
66 Coronet 440
1 Dark Blue/Blue- 4 Speed: In storage in the upper Midewest, fully documented with a broadcast sheet, built late July of 1966. Only known 440 Model (more expensive trim option than the other 3 known Coronets - the only 4 speed)
66 Plymouth Belv II
1 Dark Green- 4 speed, Stolen/MIA Probably existed but no VIN# to verify
67 Plymouth Belv II
1 Blue- auto: Export car, in Finland.
Posted By: EWJ
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/29/11 06:53 PM
Quote:
66 Coronet 440
1 Dark Blue/Blue- 4 Speed: In storage in the upper Midewest, fully documented with a broadcast sheet, built late July of 1966. Only known 440 Model (more expensive trim option than the other 3 known Coronets - the only 4 speed)
Very cool. Would love to see this one....
BTW- A new search is being done for the VIN on the 66 Plymouth: maybe this time we'll find something
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: 4 Door HEMI cars? - 03/29/11 08:11 PM
Quote:
BTW- A new search is being done for the VIN on the 66 Plymouth: maybe this time we'll find something
That would be awesome! Good luck in your continued search!