Posted By: Greg55_99
Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/11/08 05:15 PM
OK, that's what I'm looking for. I've already got a 77 Volare with the 4-speed set up. Any idea if I'd have to cut the floor to make a TKO fit?
Greg
Greg
Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body?
Posted By: Keisler Sales
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/11/08 10:30 PM
Greg,
Ok no one is biting. So I will,honestly I don't think it has been done before. If you can take some measurements of the shift position we can try our best to get the shifter in the correct location.
We don't have a crossmember for that model. Typically all of the TKO crossmembers for Mopar have been dropped ever so slightly for better fitment.
So fitment and driveline angle would be up to you to figure out.
If you have any other questions let me know.
Ok no one is biting. So I will,honestly I don't think it has been done before. If you can take some measurements of the shift position we can try our best to get the shifter in the correct location.
We don't have a crossmember for that model. Typically all of the TKO crossmembers for Mopar have been dropped ever so slightly for better fitment.
So fitment and driveline angle would be up to you to figure out.
If you have any other questions let me know.
Posted By: goldduster318
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/12/08 01:56 AM
In an F-body, you don't have to worry about the torsion bar crossmember so much. So, therefore transmission tunnel and crossmember mods are easier to accomplish.
As a result, I would run a T-56 6-speed Trans. Quicktime makes a bellhousing for this.
As a result, I would run a T-56 6-speed Trans. Quicktime makes a bellhousing for this.
Posted By: Greg55_99
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/12/08 02:45 AM
My current set up is a big block F body with a stock 4 speed. It sits forward only 1/4" from the small block location. In fact, I only had to elongate the transmission mount slightly to get it in. I'm using a stock 10.5" big block bellhousing. I understand that Keisler can redrill what I have to fit the Tremec. At least, I think that's what I've heard. I want to keep it because.
1. I fabbed up a custom bracket to utilize the original clutch peddle set up... and don't want to change it..
2. Don't really want to cut up the floor too much. I'm not a purist, I have a welder... just don't want to do it if not necessary.
I've also got 3.91 gears out back. So... I was hoping the A body conversion would take me to 90% of what I want.
Greg
1. I fabbed up a custom bracket to utilize the original clutch peddle set up... and don't want to change it..
2. Don't really want to cut up the floor too much. I'm not a purist, I have a welder... just don't want to do it if not necessary.
I've also got 3.91 gears out back. So... I was hoping the A body conversion would take me to 90% of what I want.
Greg
Posted By: rj8806
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/12/08 01:50 PM
Greg:
I think I am the one who talked to you when you called us and like I said on the phone (and Gene stated), if you can get me a measurement from the engine to bell mating surface, down the centerline of the tunnel, to the center of the shifter opening in your floor, I can see if we can get the shifter position right. If not exact, i can tell you how close we can get it.
As stated, the cross member, possible tunnel modification and driveline angle would be up to you but we can certainly take care of the rest of the parts and pieces to help you on your quest.
Let me know what measurements you come up with and we can go from there.
Richard
Tech Support
I think I am the one who talked to you when you called us and like I said on the phone (and Gene stated), if you can get me a measurement from the engine to bell mating surface, down the centerline of the tunnel, to the center of the shifter opening in your floor, I can see if we can get the shifter position right. If not exact, i can tell you how close we can get it.
As stated, the cross member, possible tunnel modification and driveline angle would be up to you but we can certainly take care of the rest of the parts and pieces to help you on your quest.
Let me know what measurements you come up with and we can go from there.
Richard
Tech Support
Posted By: DoctorDiff
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/12/08 02:33 PM
Original 4-speed transmissions/linkage interchange between A and F bodies.
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/12/08 03:48 PM
Posted By: Greg55_99
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/13/08 10:30 PM
I didn't get the chance to measure the distance from the front of the bell to the center of the shifter opening, but, I did go out and eyeball my existing big block setup... Also took a pic... It looks dead center to me. I think the A body stuff would work as is...
Greg
Greg
Posted By: 440dodge440
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/15/08 11:03 AM
Maybe try it on your own??? There was a link poseted by 446acuda telling everything you need t oknow.
Posted By: rj8806
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/15/08 06:26 PM
Quote:
Original 4-speed transmissions/linkage interchange between A and F bodies.
So you're saying the tunnels are identical between the 2 body styles? The modifications needed on an A-body are the same for an F body? The shifter location on an A body is the same as an F body? The driveline angles are the same as well?
If there were an F body car close enough to us to do some R & D on and the demand for this were enough, I'm sure we could come up with a kit for it.
Richard
Tech Support
Posted By: Greg55_99
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/15/08 07:09 PM
The answer is "yes". The engine\transmission hard points are identical between the A body and F body. I won't say the floor pans are identical, but are pretty close. The A833 transmission I'm using in my big block F body came out of an A body. The clutch linkage is also the same. The original overdrive transmission in my F body was swapped into an A body. As I've said before, when I bolted the big block into my F body, I used stock big block motor mounts out of a 74 Charger with a 400. The only mod required was to elongate the transmission mount holes on the mount bracket less than a quarter inch for the whole thing to drop in.
Greg
Greg
Posted By: rj8806
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/16/08 12:34 PM
Quote:
The answer is "yes". The engine\transmission hard points are identical between the A body and F body. I won't say the floor pans are identical, but are pretty close. The A833 transmission I'm using in my big block F body came out of an A body. The clutch linkage is also the same. The original overdrive transmission in my F body was swapped into an A body. As I've said before, when I bolted the big block into my F body, I used stock big block motor mounts out of a 74 Charger with a 400. The only mod required was to elongate the transmission mount holes on the mount bracket less than a quarter inch for the whole thing to drop in.
Greg
Very good information, thank you. Now if we only had access to an F-body car, I'm sure we could come up with a kit for them.
Richard
Tech Support
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/16/08 04:04 PM
I swapped an A833 into my Diplomat, which is essentially the same as an F body as far as this swap goes.
I used an A body A833, an A body bellhousing, A body clutch fork and linkage frome the Z bar to the fork. I used a Hurst Indy shifter spec'd for the A body. I did have to trim the crossmember slightly to clear the linkages, mostly (I think) because the M body would have come with an A833OD instead of an A833 which changes the routing of the 3-4 linkage.
I used an F body 4 speed hump, pedal assembly, Z bar and linkage (from the pedal assembly to the Z bar).
This ws in an 87 Diplomat, which never had a stick as an option, though the earlier (81 and older?) Diplomats could have been ordered with one. But under the skin it's pretty much the same so I was able to retrofit an A833 into it.
So, if you made an F body kit it should fit the M and J bodies too, in fact it should fit any of the transverse torsion bar cars made, from 76-89. Not sure what the market would be though.
I suspect this swap would be easier in some cases (trans crossmember) but possibly harder in others (clearing the factory cat might be an issue). I dunno, sold the Diplomat a few years back so I don;t have it around to look at anymore.
I used an A body A833, an A body bellhousing, A body clutch fork and linkage frome the Z bar to the fork. I used a Hurst Indy shifter spec'd for the A body. I did have to trim the crossmember slightly to clear the linkages, mostly (I think) because the M body would have come with an A833OD instead of an A833 which changes the routing of the 3-4 linkage.
I used an F body 4 speed hump, pedal assembly, Z bar and linkage (from the pedal assembly to the Z bar).
This ws in an 87 Diplomat, which never had a stick as an option, though the earlier (81 and older?) Diplomats could have been ordered with one. But under the skin it's pretty much the same so I was able to retrofit an A833 into it.
So, if you made an F body kit it should fit the M and J bodies too, in fact it should fit any of the transverse torsion bar cars made, from 76-89. Not sure what the market would be though.
I suspect this swap would be easier in some cases (trans crossmember) but possibly harder in others (clearing the factory cat might be an issue). I dunno, sold the Diplomat a few years back so I don;t have it around to look at anymore.
Posted By: rj8806
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/18/08 02:43 PM
Once again, that is more great information, thank you.
To date, we do not have a kit for the F-body cars either but like I said before, if the interest was there(responses from you guys), I'm sure the boss would look into it.
Richard
Tech Support
To date, we do not have a kit for the F-body cars either but like I said before, if the interest was there(responses from you guys), I'm sure the boss would look into it.
Richard
Tech Support
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/18/08 03:23 PM
One thing that has not been brought up is how many would you really sell if a kit was made. Would it be worth the $$$ to do it.
Of all the f-body owners on my web site id say 99 percent are running small blocks and many of use strokers that would take a stout BB to even be close performance/balance wise.
I sold my 440 F-body for just that, ontop of the heavy transverse front it was just a bad combo, I liked the car but it just didnt work well..but was a great driver.
The kit would be nice if it was also for a small block with just a diff bell.
Ive only seen my R/T street/strip and one other full race F-body with the altrektion front end which might make a 440 combo better.
With some small block strokers passing the 440 cube area makes ya wonder if the bb is practicle.
Of all the f-body owners on my web site id say 99 percent are running small blocks and many of use strokers that would take a stout BB to even be close performance/balance wise.
I sold my 440 F-body for just that, ontop of the heavy transverse front it was just a bad combo, I liked the car but it just didnt work well..but was a great driver.
The kit would be nice if it was also for a small block with just a diff bell.
Ive only seen my R/T street/strip and one other full race F-body with the altrektion front end which might make a 440 combo better.
With some small block strokers passing the 440 cube area makes ya wonder if the bb is practicle.
Posted By: Diplomat360
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/18/08 04:41 PM
How many pieces would you need to sell to make this project a 'GO'?
My '80 & '81 coupes are identical to the same year F-body chassis. Prior years' the F/M bodies stayed the same as well.
For my part, I would be interested in the small block version...too easy to make a SB run like it's bigger brother...so I question the effort of trying to stuff a BB in there.
My '80 & '81 coupes are identical to the same year F-body chassis. Prior years' the F/M bodies stayed the same as well.
For my part, I would be interested in the small block version...too easy to make a SB run like it's bigger brother...so I question the effort of trying to stuff a BB in there.
Posted By: Greg55_99
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/18/08 05:17 PM
Quote:
How many pieces would you need to sell to make this project a 'GO'?
My '80 & '81 coupes are identical to the same year F-body chassis. Prior years' the F/M bodies stayed the same as well.
For my part, I would be interested in the small block version...too easy to make a SB run like it's bigger brother...so I question the effort of trying to stuff a BB in there.
You won't find me questioning it...
Greg
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Keisler TKO for Big Block F-body? - 09/19/08 02:48 AM
Quote:
One thing that has not been brought up is how many would you really sell if a kit was made. Would it be worth the $$$ to do it.
Actually, I did mention the possibility that there might not be a market for it.
That's the issue, isn't it, with any product. What's the market? Which is why we Mopar guys get left out in the cold or pay a premium for stuff. Add in an "oddball" Mopar and you can imagine the problem.
I wonder how close the A body kit would be to fitting up? Be a few things different, crossmember comes to mind. But most of it should work.