Which intake should I use for my build?

Posted By: VITC_GTX

Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 05:51 AM

I have a 383 with stock compression (measured at low 8's to 1). I plan on putting it together with only the parts I have (no buying any parts). I have three camshafts and have chose to use the big Summit cam (specs below). I want this engine for street driving only. Something for a daily driver. I will run headers, a 750 vacuum secondary Holley with 3.23's in an auto.

Question is, I only have two intakes; a Torker and stock iron manifold. Was leaning towards the stock manifold but didn't know if I would just be fooling myself or not. What do you think?

Cam Style Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 2,000-5,500
Duration at 050 inch Lift 224 int./234 exh.
Advertised Duration 282 int./292 exh.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.465 int./0.488 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 114

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 06:44 AM

Had a simular combo 383 (around 1991), and it was pretty much a compromise all the way around. My biggest mistake was using the stock torque converter. The cam (pretty much the same 0.050 duration as yours) killed off too much low end torque, and with the stock converter it was slow off the line. Midrange power was good, but not alot of high end power either. I would shift at 5,800-6,000 RPM.
I ran the stock ('71) intake first, and it was decent for the combination. I then used a Weiand Action Plus, and din't notice any real difference over the stock intake. Then I installed a Weiand single plane (maybe a Team G) which only slightly helped the upper RPM range, but made low end torque worse.
Anyhow, changing out intakes on a big block is pretty easy. I'd start off with the stock intake, at least all the stock linkage will work with it.
If you have the funds, get a good hi-stall torque converter (2,800+ RPM) to hide the low end power loss.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 07:01 AM

Quote:

a 383 with stock compression (measured at low 8's to 1).(no buying any parts). a daily driver. with 3.23's in an auto. Was leaning towards the stock manifold

yes that one. Unrelated, the orig bb torker (not the torker 2) reportedly had mixture distribution probs but for sure I'd use the dual plane

Posted By: ireland383

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 12:49 PM

Sell the Torker and use the dual plane.

Posted By: Boosted

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 01:37 PM

I would use the aluminum one. Looks better, runs cooler, is lighter and as you said this is a street only motor...

Trying to squeeze 10lb more tq out of the motor is not that big of a deal on the street.. I would invest in a good converter for that.. Something like the 10" street fighter from TCI...

Posted By: BSB67

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 01:41 PM

I think the stock intake will be better.

I would reconsider your cam choice. Short stroke, low compression, slow moving/large adv. duration cam - makes for very soft bottom end power. Pretty easy to make better one of these.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/26/11 01:50 PM

Quote:

I think the stock intake will be better.

I would reconsider your cam choice. Short stroke, low compression, slow moving/large adv. duration cam - makes for very soft bottom end power. Pretty easy to make better one of these.

wit hthis , the torker is all wrong for that engine as it the cam , if the car was a 4 speed with more gearthen that cam would dork ok , i ran that cam wit hthat gear in a 130k 383 2 bbl engine with a 4speed , it wasn't a barn burner but it was ok.

The build you have laid out is why 383's get a bad rap , use a big cam with a poor single plane intake and it's going to be a dog. What heads do you have ?

Posted By: VITC_GTX

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:01 AM

I have the stock 906 heads for it. They have been rebuilt with MP springs added.

I do have a set of 3.91s I could put in it too, that would help with the low end power.

Looks like I will go with the stock manifold for now. Thanks.

Posted By: rss

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:09 AM

Will you be installing the cam advanced or straight up?

Posted By: VITC_GTX

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:44 AM

I assumed straight up. I figured I would just follow the specs. Any reason not to?

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:02 AM

I would try upping the compression ratio. Maybe use the 0.020" thick steel shim gasket?
I see Summit lists Mopar #P4286754 for $21.95/pair, but out of stock, and says to use Mopar DCC-5155237 which are $159.95

Mr Gasket has the #1135G (0.020" thick) one for $21.95 /each.
What other cams do you have to choose from?

Posted By: rss

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:21 AM

Quote:

I assumed straight up. I figured I would just follow the specs. Any reason not to?

You're planning to use a cam with mid-range power band and 3.23 gears in a low compression 383. Advancing cam should improve low end performance.

I'd run this by others, but based on all my cam-thread lurking, I'd think you'd want to advance it by at least 4 to 6 degrees.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:25 AM

adv it 4 deg

Posted By: gch

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 03:34 PM

If you run this cam I agree with above.Advance it 4* and use the iron intake.
You said you have three cams to choose from,what are the other 2?

Posted By: zrxkawboy

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 03:57 PM

Quote:

I think the stock intake will be better.

I would reconsider your cam choice. Short stroke, low compression, slow moving/large adv. duration cam - makes for very soft bottom end power. Pretty easy to make better one of these.

+1. I'd use the stock intake. What are your other cam choices?

Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:08 PM

I scanned and posted an Edelbrock advertisement on here awhile back. I will try and find the 1973 Hot Rod mag it came from and post it again. The ad from 1973 commented on the latest 440 engines being down on compression and thus power. It then said the adding the Edelbrock "Torker" manifold on one of these low perf 440s really made a big difference in power output. The ad then said if you bolt the Torker on a 66-71 440..."WOW!" was the word they used. Why not try both? The dyno testing done with the Torker in those mag tests in the last decade actually vindicated the Torker and its bad "out dated design" rap.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:21 PM

I'd sell both intakes and buy an aluminum dual plane, maybe an EDDY performer (Not RPM) or a MP piece. Slightly better performance than the stocker and saves the weight.

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:28 PM

Put the cam in around 107-108 ICL, run a performer RPM (the longer runners of the high rise will actually HELP the short stroke

) and I'd go straight to the 3.91's. Use a thin head gasket and mill the heads maybe an additional .020, you have no quench but the extra CR will still help.

Also, opinions vary but with that old general kinetics Summitt grind, a set of Rhoads lifters will actually help take out some of that rather long duration and make that cam a bit snappier.
that is actually a decent oem replacement 440 cam. I don't like the wide spread for a 383 (that really needs help inthe middle), my real preference would be the Crower 271HDP 224/234, .486/.496 but have it custom ground for a 108 centerline (std is 112) and put it in your motor +3 at 105, on paper it's similar specs to the Summit, but it's a much better mopar lobe and it makes a mild 383 run like a scalded dog

The Torker FWIW is a decent 383 4 speed intake, I ran one with a tweaked thermoquad and it was pretty close et wise to a Street Dominator, but that motor had 915 closed chamber heads and 10.5:1, your results might vary. But this was before the RPM dual plane gave us a true high-rise dual plane option, like I said the longer runners (with the right cam especially) will actually enhance torque at a lower rpm with a short stroke motor. And the RPM doesn't have any severe/acute (<90 degree) angles like most of the low rise dual planes have.

Posted By: VITC_GTX

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:37 PM

Thanks to all for the thoughts. I agree I could use better parts but, again, was looking to just use what I have now. I wouldn't mind a stock build but these are the parts I have.

The other two cams I have are the MP purple 238/.474" and the Comp 292H 244/.501".

I think I will try and find the metal shim head gaskets if I can.

What are the drawbacks to advancing the cam?

Posted By: 10secGTX

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:42 PM

I hate to hijack ..but I'm building a engine for the Wagon its a 71 440 we are decking the block to raise the comp and it came with 516 heads that were opened up to 2.08 -1.74 and port work was done already we went with a 230 dur/ 525 comp cam and I have a holley street dominator intake for it any opinions on intake etc. We are hoping for 10 to 1 comp.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 07:47 PM

Quote:

What are the drawbacks to advancing the cam?

just reduces the piston to valve clearance on one of the valves (in or ex) I forget which

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:10 PM

Reduces intake piston to valve clearance (intake is further open around TDC, closes intake valve sooner after BDC building more compression pressure.
Street wise mentioned the Crower 271HDP cam, that is what I have in the 383. If you were going to buy a new intake, the Performer RPM would be a good choice.

Posted By: Red63440

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:20 PM

Here is a test done on 12 intakes...read for yourself.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...aro/index.html

Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:27 PM

383, short stroke, low compression, 3.23, low stall ALL equates to a sloooooooooow air/fuel response in the intake tract. Notta good idea.

An old DP4B aluminum intake is whatchya need.

I'd use the stock iron piece until you sell/trade the Torquer for a aluminum dual-plane.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 08:32 PM

Quote:

Reduces intake piston to valve clearance (intake is further open around TDC, closes intake valve sooner after BDC building more compression pressure.

from that descrip I will b able to remem which is which

Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 09:49 PM

My 383 had the stock Iron 4bbl intake, then I switched to a Performer, then to a torker. Still run the torker on my 451. I never noticed any power loss or gain for that matter by switching intakes. Not on that motor. It was also a very low compression motor with the psi killing MP474 cam. Cranking psi was only 96-98. Still made 13.72 1/4 mile times with the 3.91's , 3000 stall and headers.

I'd just advance the Summit cam, Run the Torker and put in the 3.91's if you want to beat on it. Without tearing into the thing and getting the compression up with some quench, you'll most likely just be stirring the poop soup.

My 383 (attached picture) was a big mismatch of whatever I could find for cheap, the 4780 holley 800 probably was way too much but it ran fastest with that carb too. Intakes and carbs on big blocks are a one or two beer job so for now I'd just run what ya have.

Don

Attached picture 6499890-IMG_0704-1.JPG

Posted By: rss

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 10:54 PM

Quote:

my real preference would be the Crower 271HDP 224/234, .486/.496 but have it custom ground for a 108 centerline (std is 112) and put it in your motor +3 at 105, on paper it's similar specs to the Summit, but it's a much better mopar lobe and it makes a mild 383 run like a scalded dog

So you would recommend the the Crower custom ground at 108 LSA even for an automatic? I was under the impression that since he was running an automatic that he'd be better off with the wider powerband of the standard 112 LSA cam? What kind of difference in vacuum would you expect between the 112 and 108 versions of this cam?

Posted By: 10secGTX

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/27/11 11:49 PM

Quote:

Here is a test done on 12 intakes...read for yourself.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/h...aro/index.html

im getting nothing from that but I will look it up

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/28/11 02:40 AM

the Crower 271HDP cut on 108 is to me the hot ticket to really wake up a mild street 383, it's not a ton of duration so overlap is not an issue even with an automatic.

PM member Mopork, he took my recommendation of this exact cam and dropped it in his uber-sweet 383 71 coronet cop car, he's told me on more than one occassion he's VERY pleased with how that cam runs.

Posted By: Red63440

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/28/11 02:48 AM

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0712_mopar_intake_manifold_comparo/index.html

Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/28/11 05:59 AM

I don't recall if the vam was installed advanced or not?
The engine is at my parents house, maybe I'll go get it and check the installed CL.
I did not want to give the wrong impression, the cam made power, but my stock converter and 3.23:1 gears made it slow off the line although that may have been partly the way the engine was tuned. I was using the stock advance curve in the Mopar distrubitor. It seemed to have good power from 2,500-5,000 RPM. I later did replace the rear gears with 3.91:1 ratio and used a single plane intake, but then I accidently over reved the engine. Went from third to first and had the dumb shift kit option that lets you do first gear at any speed. I think it may have hit 8,000 RPM? Result was a few bent intake valves.

Posted By: 2boltmain

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/28/11 05:50 PM

From what I have read the original Torker is a nice intake- dyno tests even shock the testers. And you ALREADY own one to boot. I think Edelbrock and Weiand use descriptions for chevy motors to describe products for all makes. Examples: 1. Weiand states their tunnel ram for the 440 is not suitable for the street- lack of low end. Many tunnel ram users find this to be wrong- one member here has one on his big Dodge truck and it is a powerhouse. BBC guys can not make the same testimonial- their tunnel rams are flat till about 4 grand. 2. Edelbrock states the Torker for the 440 is soft on the bottom end- not alot of low end but dyno testing has proved this to be untrue ON A BIG MOPAR- I am guessing on a BBC the low end is soft until 3 grand??? Many lump the Torker and Torker 2 in with a Team G and a Victor. They are not the same. Victor and Team G are large plenum serious race items.

Posted By: GLR

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 02/28/11 09:34 PM

Since this subject has been raised...
I took an intake in on trade for some parts, I thought at first glance that it was a 383 Torker intake but it actually says...Edelbrock TM6 ...on it..
Is this the same as a Torker or????
Thanks

Posted By: forphorty

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 03/01/11 01:33 AM

Quote:

Since this subject has been raised...
I took an intake in on trade for some parts, I thought at first glance that it was a 383 Torker intake but it actually says...Edelbrock TM6 ...on it..
Is this the same as a Torker or????
Thanks

Different intake. Runners of the TM6 are larger than the Torker but at first glance they look very sinilar. Click on the link someone gave above from HRM for more info. Here's some pics from the archive: http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/14.html

Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 03/01/11 03:20 AM

The TM6 ,and RB version TM7 are both very good intakes. At a quick glance they are almost identical to a Torker.
Here's a TM7.

Attached picture 6502759-440TM7Holley.JPG

Attached picture 6502759-440TM7Holley.JPG

Posted By: MoparDonny

Re: Which intake should I use for my build? - 03/01/11 03:26 AM

And my Current Torker 383.

Attached picture 6502781-IMG_2553small.JPG