Posted By: indytex96
New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 03:36 PM
Getting ready to break in a new summit cam on a 440 and was wondering what I should use for oil to get the zinc thats needed, or would it be better to get the additive? Thanks!
New cam zinc oil?
Posted By: Junky
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 04:44 PM
I installed a Hughes cam 2 months ago. 15W40 Valvoline Premium Blue heavy duty diesel (dino) oil with Redline zinc additive. After break in I drained and put the same oil and zinc additive back in with a new filter. Everything is just fine.
Posted By: 2boltmain
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 04:53 PM
Often I read people suggesting one to
"just" run a roller valvetrain but roller components are soo expensive. Id love to be able to buy all the stuff but it comes out like so: $300 for a cam- $300 for lifters- $300-$400 for adj Rocker arms ($80 for BETTER adjusters) and around $90 for pushrods. In the past (good ole days?) a hot street hyd flat tappet cam was affordable and only required additional valvesprings. I hate the posts about wiped out cam lobes.
"just" run a roller valvetrain but roller components are soo expensive. Id love to be able to buy all the stuff but it comes out like so: $300 for a cam- $300 for lifters- $300-$400 for adj Rocker arms ($80 for BETTER adjusters) and around $90 for pushrods. In the past (good ole days?) a hot street hyd flat tappet cam was affordable and only required additional valvesprings. I hate the posts about wiped out cam lobes.
Posted By: Junky
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 08:12 PM
The vast majority of wiped cam lobes are from improper installations and/or oil. I had never installed a cam before, but did so successfully by following directions and careful installation, and using the right kind of oil/additive for the break in.
Posted By: rbstroker
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 10:48 PM
I have had my share of wiped cams. Mostly the .590 lift solid cams from Mopar Performance. Lately I have been running Racer Brown hydraulic cams with lower spring pressures and have been using diesel oil along with Lucas zinc additive, So far..so good. I see that 4 seconds flat (Racer Brown) offers composite lifters which show a lot of promise.
Posted By: indytex96
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 11:00 PM
Any certain type of diesel oil that you guys recommend?
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/22/11 11:42 PM
Just swapped out the lifters on my engine. Ran Castrol diesel oil with a bottle of STP oil additive dumped over the cam/coated the bottom of the lifters. Seems to be doin alright
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 12:37 AM
Quote:
I installed a Hughes cam 2 months ago. 15W40 Valvoline Premium Blue heavy duty diesel (dino) oil with Redline zinc additive. After break in I drained and put the same oil and zinc additive back in with a new filter. Everything is just fine.
I don't want to jinx you, but 2 months ago in the winter probably means you don't have enough miles on your fresh build to know if the cam is safe or not. I hope you are right!
I broke my last one in a few years ago, after the zinc was gone from the oil. I used the diesel oil with moly paste on the cam lobes and bottom of the lifters. Straight oil on the sides of the lifters. And I was able to use my old wimpy valve springs to break in the new cam (check for coil bind before you try this!). I hated to have to go back in and swap the springs, but in reality, it's much less work/time/money than pulling the engine and starting over after the cam wipes.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 12:50 AM
Brad Penn breakin oil.Black moly paste on teh lobes/lifter bottoms (only). Do follow all the std preps ahead of time including making sure the lifters have enough clearance to rotate properly. On mockup, lifter body/bores cleaned & lightly oiled w WD40, lift each lifter off of it's lobe w your finger & let it go & it must fall back onto the lobe w a resounding "thunk" from it's own weight & if not you are too tight. For the ring breakin part read "breakin secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com (5 minute read)
Posted By: TooMany62s
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 12:50 AM
I've used oil from here with new flat tappet cams and had no problems: http://full-synthetic.com/
Of course you would not want to use full synthetic if it's a fresh motor with new rings. The owner of the company is Ed Evans. Give him a call I'm sure he can suggest something. Ed's number 815-739-5588
Of course you would not want to use full synthetic if it's a fresh motor with new rings. The owner of the company is Ed Evans. Give him a call I'm sure he can suggest something. Ed's number 815-739-5588
Posted By: ahy
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 01:36 AM
I used Rotella T 10W30 diesel engine oil + STP for break in then Rotella 15W40 + STP. About 7k miles on a moderatly aggressive FT and no problems.
Posted By: indytex96
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 02:00 AM
I assume when just breaking in a cam it wouldn't make any difference running 40w oil instead of the 30w as recommended for new rings?
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 02:03 AM
I'd definitely use the thinner 30 weight, especially if you are doing the break in during cold weather. The rings will need plenty of oil during that first start up.
Posted By: ozz383
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 02:52 AM
I agree on the brad penn. have installed 3 cams in the last 2 years and had no problems. ozz
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 03:26 AM
Quote:
Any certain type of diesel oil that you guys recommend?
I am a fan of diesel oils (bought mega amounts at work) and I agree they are great oils---except--they have very high detergent levels. Not a problem in itself except that the oil tends to drain off in 'rivers' as opposed to clinging in a film. Picture that on a cam, thats been sitting for weeks.
I used to use them but for that reason I switched to regular oil plus ZDDPlus, but the next oil change I will just buy Redline's additive.
More than one way to skin a cat on this issue, and they probably all work pretty good. Obviously the higher the lift and the higher the spring pressure the greater concern.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 05:07 AM
Last one I did was with shell rotella T diesel oil and a bottle and a half of GM EOS. But here we could (in summer 2009 anyway) still get the old style EOS that at that time was no longer available at US gm dealers. I've been meaning to go back there and see if I can get a few more bottles of the good stuff. I know hughes sells a special break in additiave and I think comp does as well. I've heard nothing but good things about the brad penn break in oil, I think I'll give theirs a try when I put together my new motor. A roller cam would be nice but it is an additional cost, and roller rockers and roller lifters are not without their own set of problems.
Posted By: Junky
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 06:11 PM
Quote:Quote:
I installed a Hughes cam 2 months ago. 15W40 Valvoline Premium Blue heavy duty diesel (dino) oil with Redline zinc additive. After break in I drained and put the same oil and zinc additive back in with a new filter. Everything is just fine.
I don't want to jinx you, but 2 months ago in the winter probably means you don't have enough miles on your fresh build to know if the cam is safe or not. I hope you are right!
It wasn't a fresh build, just a cam swap.
So far I have about 400 miles on the cam. Been driving it every chance I get. Have had my foot in it many times, up to 6k. I've been running it hard to either break the cam in good, or break the cam.
I want to have at least 1,000 miles on it by the time cruise season gets here in June.Hope it's good for many thousands of miles to come!
I was very meticulous checking the lifter rotation and everything else. Cam lift is 0.518.
Posted By: dOc …
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 06:31 PM
Quote:
Often I read people suggesting one to
"just" run a roller valvetrain but roller components are soo expensive. Id love to be able to buy all the stuff but it comes out like so: $300 for a cam- $300 for lifters- $300-$400 for adj Rocker arms ($80 for BETTER adjusters) and around $90 for pushrods. In the past (good ole days?) a hot street hyd flat tappet cam was affordable and only required additional valvesprings. I hate the posts about wiped out cam lobes.
THEN there are the reports on the roller lifters or rockers COMING APART and then (potentially)trashing the whole motor.
Posted By: Abodysforever
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 06:48 PM
How about Mobil 1 racing oil, anyone try that?
Posted By: desomod
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/23/11 11:30 PM
I have also heard that Valvoline Racing and Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Oil are supposed to be good.
Posted By: Dabee
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 04:00 AM
I run Valvoline VR1 in my 512 flat tappet wedge.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6
Posted By: ademon
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 04:45 PM
Quote:
I run Valvoline VR1 in my 512 flat tappet wedge.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/racing-motor-oil/6
if you click on the PDF it shows zinc at .14 does that translate to 1400 ppm ?? that would be a good amount
Posted By: Von
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 04:59 PM
Quote:
Valvoline VR1
If the VR1 has a API rating of SM on the back....Id pass on it. If the oil has a API SL or SM rating it cannot and does not have enough zinc. You could use that oil with some zinc additive, but Id start with better oil. Brad Penn, Gibbs, Valvoline VR that is marked not for street use, etc.
A local machine shop says the Schaeffer oil is supposed to be really good. But, I havent seen anything on it??
FWIW, I have been using Rotella 5-40 synthetic with a bottle of SLOB. I started burning up pushrods cups shortly after I switched to the synthetic. Maybe coincidence, but I dont think so. Going back to a dino/syn blend, Brad Penn.
Posted By: ademon
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 05:06 PM
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/VR-1_Racing_Motor_Oil.pdf
notice on the sheet at the top the asterisk shows obsolete on the 10/30, 20/50 sh, cd/cf
notice on the sheet at the top the asterisk shows obsolete on the 10/30, 20/50 sh, cd/cf
Posted By: Chilort
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 05:13 PM
1) Quit asking on here and call the tech support for your cam manufacturer to see what they say.
2) But since you asked a) make sure the cam lobes are covered in some kind of assembly lube, b) use Valvoline VR1 30W (for break in), c) use a quality break in additive, and d) change the oil and filter after the cam break in procedure.
I personally like the VR1 (my cam manufacturer said it was appropriate) because I can get it at any local parts store and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg like some of the others. They have several weights of VR1 including 10w-30, 10w-40, 20w-50, and 30w. Most stores only carry 20w-50 and 30w but a decent parts store can order 10w-30 for you at the standard case price.
2) But since you asked a) make sure the cam lobes are covered in some kind of assembly lube, b) use Valvoline VR1 30W (for break in), c) use a quality break in additive, and d) change the oil and filter after the cam break in procedure.
I personally like the VR1 (my cam manufacturer said it was appropriate) because I can get it at any local parts store and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg like some of the others. They have several weights of VR1 including 10w-30, 10w-40, 20w-50, and 30w. Most stores only carry 20w-50 and 30w but a decent parts store can order 10w-30 for you at the standard case price.
Posted By: Triggerfish
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 05:31 PM
I used Comp Cams break in lube on my hemi's Bullet SOLID flat tappet & no problems...until months later, when the REPOP fuel pump pushrod started going bad. I used Brad Penn & went back to VR1 20/50 due to price & availability & when I had vapor lock issues & hard starting, we suspected the pushrod could be bad & sure enough, a 1/4" was dished out at the top & wiped out the cam lobe, too. I've heard by reputable engine builders that the metalurgy in the repop rods are soft & to go with an OEM rod. If your cam is a hydraulic, I wouldn't worry about using VR1 after break in.
Anyway there's lots of good info for you to consider from the answers give to this thread & you can also check out www.bobistheoilguy.com
A wealth of info there.
Anyway there's lots of good info for you to consider from the answers give to this thread & you can also check out www.bobistheoilguy.com
A wealth of info there.
Posted By: Von
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 05:50 PM
One last time, the VR-1 api rated oil does NOT have sufficient zinc.......
By EPA regs, by carrying a SL or SM rating it cannot exceed a set level of zinc...
But, its your motor, cam, piston skirts, etc...Do you what you want!
By EPA regs, by carrying a SL or SM rating it cannot exceed a set level of zinc...
But, its your motor, cam, piston skirts, etc...Do you what you want!
Posted By: BTTG
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 05:54 PM
anyone have an opinion on the comp cam break in oil (not the oil additive, but the actual oil product sold in quarts)?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1590/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1590/
Posted By: Triggerfish
Re: New cam zinc oil? - 02/24/11 06:18 PM
Quote:
One last time, the VR-1 api rated oil does NOT have sufficient zinc.......
By EPA regs, by carrying a SL or SM rating it cannot exceed a set level of zinc...
But, its your motor, cam, piston skirts, etc...Do you what you want!
I definitely agree w/ what Von says & I certainly can't say it wasn't the VR1's low zinc that contributed to my cam failure. I talked to the guys at Brad Penn (orig Kendall GT1) & he said they have their own foundries & vouched for high levels of zinc & phosphorus. I also talked to the guys at Joe Gibbs & he said to get their HOTROD oil, which I also used (but its a syn blend). Still, its your choice & I'd give Brad Penn a call.
A lot of guys use the diesel oils w/ an additive, but the EPA has lowered their zinc levels, too. Check out the website I posted. There's lots of info n additives, tests & oil analysis there.