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Welding Questions: help me be better.

Posted By: kilroy

Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 12:15 AM

Ok been an amateur welder for about 3years now. Im using a hobart 140 (120v) with 75/25 gas set at 20cfh and .023 wire.

Ive welded patches and floor pans and many other misc things with some success and some crap. I love the welder, for the price I thought it was very good and does all I need to do.

The main question is: once in while when I start my weld the wire starts to melt back on itself and not place itself on the metal. It leaves glowing little ball of material on the wire and you have to start again. This is VERY annoying and often causes a bad next weld. What is causing this? Unclean metal? Ground to far from weld? (maybe an amateur )

Another thing would it be advantageous to switch to 0.030 wire for panel work?

Enlighten me so I can be a good amateur!
Posted By: rattler

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 12:49 AM

Sounds like wire feed rate too slow or heat range too high. Just my opinion. Randy
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:12 AM

Quote:

Sounds like wire feed rate too slow or heat range too high. Just my opinion. Randy



exactly...
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:17 AM

Quote:

Sounds like wire feed rate too slow or heat range too high. Just my opinion. Randy



This was what I was thinking but on a heat range of 1-4 I was it on 2 when this and the recommended speed is 20 I like 25 to 30 for this. But its possible.
Posted By: Sixpak

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:19 AM

I agree with the others. Check the paperwork you got with the welder. There should be a guide or some info with it that will give you various wire speed, wire thickness and heat range settings for various gauges of metal. On my MIG there's a label on the inside of the door where you add a new wire spool that has all those settings. Those will get you in the ballpark. After that it's making fine adjustments of either the wire speed or heat range til the sound the weld creates sounds like frying bacon.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:24 AM

also sometimes it works perfect than move over a foot and it will ball up?

OH and it does it on more vertical or inverted surfaces and not on horizontal that I can think of, such as where the gun would be below the weld. Also related to these situations, sometimes the weld will follow the wire up and and build a chimney around the wire.

Now given these are rare occurrence but when they happen they are a major pain so I would like to eliminate them and I havent found the magic bullet yet.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:27 AM

Quote:

I agree with the others. Check the paperwork you got with the welder. There should be a guide or some info with it that will give you various wire speed, wire thickness and heat range settings for various gauges of metal. On my MIG there's a label on the inside of the door where you add a new wire spool that has all those settings. Those will get you in the ballpark. After that it's making fine adjustments of either the wire speed or heat range til the sound the weld creates sounds like frying bacon.



Agreed on the sound but you dont want to fry bacon while hanging a quarter! Also I have been using these guide lines provide by welder and usually speed the wire up just a bit.
Posted By: Sixpak

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I agree with the others. Check the paperwork you got with the welder. There should be a guide or some info with it that will give you various wire speed, wire thickness and heat range settings for various gauges of metal. On my MIG there's a label on the inside of the door where you add a new wire spool that has all those settings. Those will get you in the ballpark. After that it's making fine adjustments of either the wire speed or heat range til the sound the weld creates sounds like frying bacon.



Agreed on the sound but you dont want to fry bacon while hanging a quarter! Also I have been using these guide lines provide by welder and usually speed the wire up just a bit.



Yup - hanging a quarter is different. You want it a tad hotter and less wire if you are doing quick bursts and small welds.
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:33 AM

Yep, I'm no great shakes, but underneath welding up is tougher than the other positions...
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:36 AM

Quote:


Yup - hanging a quarter is different. You want it a tad hotter and less wire if you are doing quick bursts and small welds.



I never would have though less wire though. More heat ya... hmm have to try it sometime.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:58 AM

Quote:

also sometimes it works perfect than move over a foot and it will ball up?

OH and it does it on more vertical or inverted surfaces and not on horizontal that I can think of, such as where the gun would be below the weld. Also related to these situations, sometimes the weld will follow the wire up and and build a chimney around the wire.

Now given these are rare occurrence but when they happen they are a major pain so I would like to eliminate them and I havent found the magic bullet yet.



Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas , that's why you are having problems wi hthat weld , that type Hobart is a marginal machine at best, we have one at work , it bites.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 02:13 AM

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas , that's why you are having problems wi hthat weld , that type Hobart is a marginal machine at best, we have one at work , it bites.



so no welding with gun below weld on gas?

Just curious what would be a good one at $450-500 range on 120v? My old man has a 220v bigger brother to mine and you can tell it MUCH hotter but I like the portableness and the fact I only have 120v in garage.
Posted By: moturbopar

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 03:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas , that's why you are having problems wi hthat weld , that type Hobart is a marginal machine at best, we have one at work , it bites.



so no welding with gun below weld on gas?

Just curious what would be a good one at $450-500 range on 120v? My old man has a 220v bigger brother to mine and you can tell it MUCH hotter but I like the portableness and the fact I only have 120v in garage.



The hobart is a good machine. I use one everday,it will work fine for what you are doing. It takes practice welding upside down but you can do it, with gas. I have found that sometimes switching the polarity of the machine will help when welding upside down. The .023 is what you need for body panels. On my machine with .023 wire and sheet metel I usually have it set at 2 and 40-45. Also is your liner good? do you have a good ground clamp you also need to make sure not to have the machine too close to where you are working, try to keep liner as straight as possible, bends can cause the wire and machine to do weird things. If you are using magnet to hold things together you should ry to move them away from your weld, the magnetic field messes with your weld. Dont run your machine off of an extension chord unless its short and large guage wire, its no good for the welder and will make for bad welds.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 03:45 AM

Thanks guys for tips! Keep them coming so I can try em all as experience is the ultimate guide...but friends sure help a hellva lot too! Bout half the things said I know BUT the other half will surely help and be fun to see what works for me.

Reversing polarity isnt really bad for machine in unintended uses? Maybe you could enlighten me as to what reversing exactly does to welding. I know you reverse it for flux core.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 04:44 AM

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas



This is BS ! Do you think all welders or welding shops switch units to do overhead welding ?

When welding overhead you cut back on the heat and amperage IF you have a machine that can dial down both. Otherwise plug into the recommended heat setting then back off the amperage (wire speed). On an overhead weld you want to move faster so the puddle doesn't drop AND you want to keep the stickout shorter - 1/4" to 1/8" - get right in there! Welding vertical you can use your normal settings but either push or drag DOWN not up. That mixed gas you're using will produce a nice weld with very little spatter but is not good for anything other than close to vertical welding - some on here will disagree but go to the supplier's website and see what they say !!

As for your balling up problem, all good suggestions but before you change anything else, make sure your wire stickout is about 3/8" to start, your torch angle about 10-15* from vertical and most important SQUEEZE THAT TRIGGER! Too many people just get scared by the "snap" and let go the trigger. Don't be afraid to hold it on to start the puddle.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 08:54 AM

Quote:



The main question is: once in while when I start my weld the wire starts to melt back on itself and not place itself on the metal. It leaves glowing little ball of material on the wire and you have to start again.



That is your start-up voltage. Most welders give you a shot of voltage for two reasons:

1. Arc stability

2. Create heat to avoid cold-lap.

Use it to your advantage. Be patient, wait it out and keep the trigger pulled.

Look at the weld pool, not what the wire is doing!

If you are blowing holes, turn up the wire speed. Hopefully this welder has infinite adjustability, not the huge A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3, click stuff.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 10:08 AM

I have an older Hobart mig, and it works fine.
Make sure the weld area is clean metal, purge the gas line, and check the polarity. Like others have said don't be afraid of putting some heat into it.
Practice on some scrap of the same thickness.
Posted By: 440beep

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 01:04 PM

my is a canox firefry 115 gas 030 wire
set at one wire set 90

Posted By: 64B Body

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 02:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas



This is BS ! Do you think all welders or welding shops switch units to do overhead welding ?

When welding overhead you cut back on the heat and amperage IF you have a machine that can dial down both. Otherwise plug into the recommended heat setting then back off the amperage (wire speed). On an overhead weld you want to move faster so the puddle doesn't drop AND you want to keep the stickout shorter - 1/4" to 1/8" - get right in there! Welding vertical you can use your normal settings but either push or drag DOWN not up. That mixed gas you're using will produce a nice weld with very little spatter but is not good for anything other than close to vertical welding - some on here will disagree but go to the supplier's website and see what they say !!

As for your balling up problem, all good suggestions but before you change anything else, make sure your wire stickout is about 3/8" to start, your torch angle about 10-15* from vertical and most important SQUEEZE THAT TRIGGER! Too many people just get scared by the "snap" and let go the trigger. Don't be afraid to hold it on to start the puddle.


Posted By: Stanton

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 02:58 PM

Quote:

purge the gas line



A very good point that many occasional welders forget. Turn on the gas at the regulator, turn on your welder then hit the trigger for a couple seconds. Snip the excess wire off and you're good to go.

Although a lot of people don't do it, try to get in the habit of snipping off the little ball on the end of the wire before starting each weld. This is actually contaminated metal that will contaminate your weld. Yes, its a nuisance.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 03:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas



This is BS ! Do you think all welders or welding shops switch units to do overhead welding ?





Lighten up Francis , with that Hobart welder he has he should to switch to a FLUX CORE wire for overhead stuff , not that the extra current is going to help when welding thinner metals ...
Posted By: Pat_Whalen

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 03:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

purge the gas line



A very good point that many occasional welders forget. Turn on the gas at the regulator, turn on your welder then hit the trigger for a couple seconds. Snip the excess wire off and you're good to go.

Although a lot of people don't do it, try to get in the habit of snipping off the little ball on the end of the wire before starting each weld. This is actually contaminated metal that will contaminate your weld. Yes, its a nuisance.



If you're not interested in wasting wire (not that it's much to purge the lines), pop open the side of the welder and lift up the drive roller, squeeze the trigger on the gun for a couple seconds and replaced the drive roller. But as mentioned, it is important to have gas at the gun the second you start welding.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 03:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Welding inverted , overhead , you need to use a FLUX core wire , no gas , that's why you are having problems with that weld , that type Hobart is a marginal machine at best, we have one at work , it bites.



so no welding with gun below weld on gas?

Just curious what would be a good one at $450-500 range on 120v? My old man has a 220v bigger brother to mine and you can tell it MUCH hotter but I like the portableness and the fact I only have 120v in garage.



You want to find a machine that has a VARIABLE adjustment for BOTH the wire speed and the Voltage/Current. I have a 120v Lincoln that I got when the 120v machines first came on the market, it's head and shoulders above that Hobart. It has variable adjustments on both and it comes in handy especially when you are dealing with metal that is a little thin after you have ground off the rust. I bought it in the early 90's and it was over $500 then , it wasn't too long after that the POS big box store units came out with the 4 position volt/ current switch so they would meet the cheapy price point.
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 06:11 PM

Quote:

...I bought it in the early 90's and it was over $500 then , it wasn't too long after that the POS big box store units came out with the 4 position volt/ current switch so they would meet the cheapy price point.



$500 in the early '90 is like a grand now

Elwell me and my pos will continue to screw up till I get it right.

Keep it coming guys.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 07:41 PM

Quote:

Lighten up Francis , with that Hobart welder he has he should to switch to a FLUX CORE wire for overhead stuff , not that the extra current is going to help when welding thinner metals ...



John, John, John, the flux in the wire does nothing other than provide a sheilding gas when it burns off under the heat. In other words it does EXACTLY what the sheilding gas does.

The ONLY advantages to a flux core wire in a small gauge wire is that:
a) it saves the hobbyist from having to rent a bottle and buy a flowmeter.
b) it will provide better sheilding if welding outdoors.

Otherwise there is no advantage to fluxcore.
Posted By: Boosted

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 08:55 PM

Posted By: Mopar_Country

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 09:29 PM

And don't forget when your done welding to add the famous "Kilroy was here".

I couldn't resist.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 11:08 PM

Quote:





Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/14/11 11:41 PM

Quote:

And don't forget when your done welding to add the famous "Kilroy was here".

I couldn't resist.



Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 01:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

purge the gas line



A very good point that many occasional welders forget. Turn on the gas at the regulator, turn on your welder then hit the trigger for a couple seconds. Snip the excess wire off and you're good to go.

Although a lot of people don't do it, try to get in the habit of snipping off the little ball on the end of the wire before starting each weld. This is actually contaminated metal that will contaminate your weld. Yes, its a nuisance.



If you're not interested in wasting wire (not that it's much to purge the lines), pop open the side of the welder and lift up the drive roller, squeeze the trigger on the gun for a couple seconds and replaced the drive roller. But as mentioned, it is important to have gas at the gun the second you start welding.



Or turn the wire speed setting to Zero... if you have that capability.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 01:18 AM

Quote:

Or turn the wire speed setting to Zero... if you have that capability.



I just hit the off switch on the welder. On mine gas still flows when I hit the trigger.
Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:13 AM

Well I guess I know why I don't weld! I have actually been thinking about taking a class, but it looks like welding may be more stressful than I thought!
Posted By: kilroy

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:19 AM

Quote:

Well I guess I know why I don't weld! I have actually been thinking about taking a class, but it looks like welding may be more stressful than I thought!



Not as stressful as staring at rust or a broken part.

but when you take rust out be prepared to take even more.
Posted By: donbarnes

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:36 AM

Another mistake I've seen over the years is people trying to use a big dark helmet for a wire welder. When using a small welder on sheet metal I like a light lens about like you'd use for for a cutting torch- helps a lot being able to see what you are doing...And no flux-core ever...
Posted By: 74fish

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 04:15 AM

Didn't see it posted .....sorry if someone already has.

Don't kink or otherwise stress your line. Make sure to keep your cable as straight as possible. I have a Hobart and sometimes I have to adjust or pull my welder back to give the cable some room to straighten. Too many curves can slow your feed
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 06:21 AM

Quote:

Another mistake I've seen over the years is people trying to use a big dark helmet for a wire welder. When using a small welder on sheet metal I like a light lens about like you'd use for for a cutting torch- helps a lot being able to see what you are doing...And no flux-core ever...



Mistake? If you can't see a mig weld with an #11, #10, or a number 9 lens then YOUR eyesight is already done. Don't advise anyone else to use an oxy-acetylene lens for arc welding unless you want them to be blind too.
Posted By: donbarnes

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:29 PM

Not an actual oxy lens, just toward the lighter end of the welding lenses...don't know the lens numbers..
Posted By: Dave Watt

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:31 PM

Quote:

Ok been an amateur welder for about 3years now. Im using a hobart 140 (120v) with 75/25 gas set at 20cfh and .023 wire.


The main question is: once in while when I start my weld the wire starts to melt back on itself and not place itself on the metal. It leaves glowing little ball of material on the wire and you have to start again. This is VERY annoying and often causes a bad next weld. What is causing this? Unclean metal? Ground to far from weld? (maybe an amateur )

Another thing would it be advantageous to switch to 0.030 wire for panel work?

Enlighten me so I can be a good amateur!


Kilroy, my Lincoln welder likes a little more gas when doing bodywork type welding, usually set it at 25cfh, 20 just doesn't seem to do as well.
.023" wire is great for bodywork.
The intermittant problem you have could be wire speed being a little slow, or if your cable is not stretched out properly, the welding wire will bind inside causing a molten ball of wire at the tip.
Posted By: Stanton

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/15/11 03:35 PM

You don't want to go below a #9 - which coincidentally is the lowest setting on adjustable auto-darkening helmets.

Something guys don't realize something which I recently discovered which is that visibilty is greatly improved with clean or new lense covers. All the smoke and spatter drastically reduces your visibilty.
Posted By: 64B Body

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/16/11 04:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Lighten up Francis , with that Hobart welder he has he should to switch to a FLUX CORE wire for overhead stuff , not that the extra current is going to help when welding thinner metals ...



John, John, John, the flux in the wire does nothing other than provide a sheilding gas when it burns off under the heat. In other words it does EXACTLY what the sheilding gas does.

The ONLY advantages to a flux core wire in a small gauge wire is that:
a) it saves the hobbyist from having to rent a bottle and buy a flowmeter.
b) it will provide better sheilding if welding outdoors.

Otherwise there is no advantage to fluxcore.





Posted By: Lee446

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 02/16/11 05:10 AM

My new Miller A/D hood is adjustable from 8 to 12.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 03/23/14 07:24 AM

I have been having crap luck with upside down welds since I switched from Flux Core to the Argon & CO2 setup. The weld wants to drop out and fall into the nozzle. Also, the nozzle blocks my view of what I'm welding. I'm fine when welding below me, its just the sideways and upside down stuff that sucks for me. Guess I'll be grinding and trying again....
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Welding Questions: help me be better. - 03/23/14 09:35 AM

When you provide enough metal to the welding gods, welding out of position will get easier...
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