Moparts
Bronze bushing for distributor........
Posted By: dustergirl340
Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/10/11 07:05 PM
We just replaced the bronze bushing that goes into the engine block (small block Mopar) for the distributor, what size does it need to be reamed out to? The distributor shaft is .490 in diameter, I'm assuming a 1/2" would be fine? What do you think? Thanks
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/10/11 07:14 PM
These don't generally get reamed AND .010 would be too much clearance in a bushing anyway. Ideally they get installed with a special tool that seems to expand the bushing in the hole. However, any I've ever installed in a big block by pulling them in from the bottom never needed any fitting for the shaft afterwards.
Posted By: MO_PA
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/10/11 07:16 PM
My comment won't answer your question but will tell the story of how the bushing was/is meant to be 'burnished' after installation. Back in the day the dealers had a special tool that did the job. Once burnished the bushing not only fit the dist shaft but it fit tightly to the block.
If reamed to fit the dist shaft the bushing could eventually spin in the block. AND this did happen often.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 01:15 AM
Quote:
We just replaced the bronze bushing that goes into the engine block (small block Mopar) for the distributor, what size does it need to be reamed out to? The distributor shaft is .490 in diameter, I'm assuming a 1/2" would be fine? What do you think? Thanks
Hi,
You want it tighter than .010" I just checked mine here that has been run and I have maybe .003"
I'd be looking for .015-.003 on the side cleance.
I pressed the gear off this oil pump shaft and have used it when I drove a new bushing in. Stick the shaft in the new bushing and drive it in with a deep socket and extension. Then use a old screw driver chucked in a drill and spin it up. I do use a washer under it, just didn't have one handy for the picture.
So I would advise trying a stock shaft to ream it because it has a real nice taper built into it.
Posted By: dustergirl340
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 01:23 AM
Great...thanks Gary!
Posted By: ahy
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 05:21 AM
The installation/burnishing tool is available from Mancini and/or Sumit now. As posted, without the tool you risk a loose fit in the block and/or incorrect clearance between bushing and shaft.
I had a "near miss" on a BB bushing installed by a mostly Chevy shop w/o the tool. The bushing was loose in the block and almost spinning and shaft clearance was too tight and the shaft damaged. A new bushing, new shaft and the correct tool borrowed from a friendly Dodge dealer fixed it.
Posted By: sthemi
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 06:59 AM
I took a well used dist shaft and using a grinder, I made a groove lengthwise in the shaft.
It only took a few turns and the groove cut the excess material out and it was a perfect fit.
Cost was free
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 09:08 AM
The installation tool.
Make sure you install the bushing on the tool as shown before driving it into the block. The bushing is burnished when you pull the tool through bushing.
Posted By: CR8CRSHR
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 06:44 PM
Quote:
The installation tool.
And worth every penny that it costs.... 
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 08:37 PM
Quote:
I took a well used dist shaft and made a groove lengthwise in the shaft. It only took a few turns and the groove cut the excess material out and it was a perfect fit.
Someone (on here) did the same w a cam to fit cam bearings and reported it worked perfect & best way they'd ever found. I'll get the (pictured) tool if necc but if the slot will do it nicely I'm game
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/11/11 09:20 PM
I have installed at least 5 or 6 of those bushings over the years and don't remember having any problems doing it. I don't know what the big deal is with the tool?
Posted By: Von
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/12/11 08:06 PM
Quote:
I have installed at least 5 or 6 of those bushings over the years and don't remember having any problems doing it. I don't know what the big deal is with the tool?
Ive put in 5 of them over the years without a tool. No problems. 
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/13/11 12:35 AM
Some aftermarket bushings don't require sizing.
Posted By: Sixpak
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 01:28 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I have installed at least 5 or 6 of those bushings over the years and don't remember having any problems doing it. I don't know what the big deal is with the tool?
Ive put in 5 of them over the years without a tool. No problems.
Same here...
Posted By: 3ddart
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 04:53 AM
fwiw, my experience has been that the mp 1s are tight, but the pioneer brand 1s i've used don't need purnished. dave
Posted By: dodgeboy11
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 05:50 AM
Quote:
fwiw, my experience has been that the mp 1s are tight, but the pioneer brand 1s i've used don't need purnished. dave
This has been my experience as well. I've been told you can use an old oil pump drive to drive the tight ones in and then knocking it out burnishes it enough to allow the shaft to spin. A light polish on the shaft will help gain the clearance you would need if it's tight.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 05:56 AM
Anyone see a prob w epoxying the OD of the bushing b 4 you drive it in, more security
Posted By: CR8CRSHR
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 07:15 PM
Still...The best and proper way is to use the tool to burnish the bushing and seat it to the block. Those here that say differently may be correct as well but I feel that you do it the right way the first time and you eliminate any future problems that might crop up...
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 07:18 PM
Quote:
Quote:
fwiw, my experience has been that the mp 1s are tight, but the pioneer brand 1s i've used don't need purnished. dave
This has been my experience as well. I've been told you can use an old oil pump drive to drive the tight ones in and then knocking it out burnishes it enough to allow the shaft to spin. A light polish on the shaft will help gain the clearance you would need if it's tight.
That's what I said, and have done. Nobody had to tell me, I figured it out on my own, like 20 years ago when I was 20 or 30. 
Posted By: goldmember
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 08:20 PM
Quote:
Anyone see a prob w epoxying the OD of the bushing b 4 you drive it in, more security
Let us know how it works. 
No need to over think something as simple as installing the bushing.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 08:48 PM
Quote:
I figured it out on my own, like 20 years ago when I was 20 or 30.
So are you 40 or 50? 
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 08:49 PM
Quote:
Someone (on here) did the same w a cam to fit cam bearings and reported it worked perfect & best way they'd ever found.
Cam bearing cutting:
https://board.moparts.org:80/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=6219639&page=0&vc=1
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/14/11 08:49 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I figured it out on my own, like 20 years ago when I was 20 or 30.
So are you 40 or 50?
I'm not saying, sucks to get old. But I'm not old 
Posted By: ahy
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/15/11 02:44 AM
Quote:
Anyone see a prob w epoxying the OD of the bushing b 4 you drive it in, more security
If the bushing and block were completly oil free it would really stick... then you'd need the tool to pull it out or a big punch from inside the disassembled engine.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/15/11 10:05 PM
Like I said earlier, some aftermarket bushings like the Pioneer don't need sizing but fit the block looser.
Anybody that's using other than the factory tool to size the bushing needs to be aware
(stand by for ruffled feathers) that there's a difference between doing it wrong and getting away with and doing it right; bushings that have spun in the block attest to that.
Posted By: BradD
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/16/11 04:24 AM
I only use the Miller tool! The first bushing I ever installed in one of my 340's was without the tool and the dizzy shaft was too tight. The only bushings I've used are the Mopar brand.
Brad
Posted By: rftroy
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/16/11 04:28 AM
Quote:
Anybody that's using other than the factory tool to size the bushing needs to be aware (stand by for ruffled feathers) that there's a difference between doing it wrong and getting away with and doing it right; bushings that have spun in the block attest to that.
Absolutely! Couldn't have said it better.
Bob
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/16/11 01:49 PM
Quote:
Like I said earlier, some aftermarket bushings like the Pioneer don't need sizing but fit the block looser.
Anybody that's using other than the factory tool to size the bushing needs to be aware (stand by for ruffled feathers) that there's a difference between doing it wrong and getting away with and doing it right; bushings that have spun in the block attest to that.
I don't have any feathers, but I hear you and believe you. 
Posted By: Moparnut426
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/16/11 02:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
We just replaced the bronze bushing that goes into the engine block (small block Mopar) for the distributor, what size does it need to be reamed out to? The distributor shaft is .490 in diameter, I'm assuming a 1/2" would be fine? What do you think? Thanks
Hi,
You want it tighter than .010" I just checked mine here that has been run and I have maybe .003"
I'd be looking for .015-.003 on the side cleance.
I pressed the gear off this oil pump shaft and have used it when I drove a new bushing in. Stick the shaft in the new bushing and drive it in with a deep socket and extension. Then use a old screw driver chucked in a drill and spin it up. I do use a washer under it, just didn't have one handy for the picture.
So I would advise trying a stock shaft to ream it because it has a real nice taper built into it.
Mine is similar to yours, but I took and made a small spiraled groove in mine so when I spin it in the new bushing it gets nice lube all the way through it and wont gall. I had one galling up pretty badly when I didnt have the spiral groove, I might have been turning it too fast to though, Either way I have been using this for years. Better than the mopar tool whick I have also.
Kasey
Posted By: 68red440
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/17/11 06:04 PM
My '68 manual says .0007 - .0027 clearance. I borrowed a friend's Miller tool and it worked great.
Posted By: Gavin
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/17/11 09:22 PM
OK, help me out here, I've never installed one of these but will need to and have read the debate every time this is posted.
Am I correct in understanding that the factory tool pushes the bushing in to place, then somehow as you withdraw the tool actually slightly expands the bushing thus both firmly lodging it in place (so it won't spin in the block) and simultaneously correctly sizing the inner diameter (so the shaft spins freely)???
If I'm correct then any method of installing needs to achieve those two objectives right?
So if the bushing is just driven in and then reamed to size, why isn't there a problem with it spinning in the block? Either there should be enough interference to hold it tight, guaranteed, (in which case why the factory method?), or it risks spinning?
Or, as was suggested, are the (some?) aftermarket bushings differently sized somehow.
Genuine question, just trying to figure this out, thanks.
Posted By: John_Kunkel
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/17/11 10:05 PM
Yes on all of the above. Even without burnishing, the bushing fits pretty tight in the block but tighter is better.
Posted By: feets
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/17/11 10:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I figured it out on my own, like 20 years ago when I was 20 or 30.
So are you 40 or 50?
I'm not saying, sucks to get old. But I'm not old
Posted By: radar
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/17/11 11:37 PM
I'm dealing with this right now too, and not in a good way!
My one piece gear/oil pump drive went in smoothly right until it got completely inside the block, when it started to get snug. This is on a fresh long block I bought. I could spin it with needle nose pliers but I couldn't get a good grip to pull it out. I figured it maybe had some carbon on it and it would get past the tight spot so I GENTLY tapped it down. No dice- still snug. Now I just want to get it out without removing the pan (full of fresh oil and zddp) and pump. Did I mention this is a new motor freshly installed ready to fire minus the distributor?
I have magnet wire around so I'm thinking about making a strong electromagnet to grab it and either a slap hammer or right angle on the top to pop it out. I'm thinking that something like a pilot bearing puller would be too big of a diameter to grab the hole with the distributor slot in it?
If I can't get it out that way it might be easier to pull the intake and get it that way I guess?
Once it's out I'm sure a light polish will get it spinning freely.
Don't be like me!
rdr
Posted By: 68red440
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 03:55 AM
I pulled out my '68 manual:
For all V8's, the (original Mopar) bushings were a press fit of .0005-.0040 into the block. The bushing hole should be .4865-.4880 which will give you a clearance of .0007-.0027.
"Installation:
(1) Slide a new bushing over burnishing end of Tool C-3053 and insert tool bushing into the bore.
(2) Drive bushing and tool into position using a hammer.
(3) As the burnisher is pulled through the bushing by tightening remover nut, the bushing is expanded tight in the block and burnished to correct size. DO NOT REAM THIS BUSHING." (says in bold print)
In the illustration, it shows the groove on the head of the bushing to be vertical. That allows oil to be directed down into the bushing.
Keep in mind that these instructions were used for engines that were designed to run 100,000 miles. Our hobby engines never last that long so using less precise methods might have worked fine for a lot of people.
For piece of mind, I would find someone with the Miller tool and use it, or buy an aftermarket bushing that doesn't need burnishing. Either way, I would measure the bushing, the tool (if used), and the gear shaft diameter so you know what your clearance will be.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 04:19 AM
My next one I'm gonna get the largest OD one (MP?) I can find/freeze it overnight/epoxy it in all to get the bushing anchored SOLID & get that squared away then work on getting the right clearance on the ID/intershaft. I'd want it tight & might add a very thin slit lengthwise in the bushing ID for some oiling
Posted By: sthemi
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 07:28 AM
Quote:
I'm dealing with this right now too, and not in a good way!
My one piece gear/oil pump drive went in smoothly right until it got completely inside the block, when it started to get snug. This is on a fresh long block I bought. I could spin it with needle nose pliers but I couldn't get a good grip to pull it out. I figured it maybe had some carbon on it and it would get past the tight spot so I GENTLY tapped it down. No dice- still snug. Now I just want to get it out without removing the pan (full of fresh oil and zddp) and pump. Did I mention this is a new motor freshly installed ready to fire minus the distributor?
I have magnet wire around so I'm thinking about making a strong electromagnet to grab it and either a slap hammer or right angle on the top to pop it out. I'm thinking that something like a pilot bearing puller would be too big of a diameter to grab the hole with the distributor slot in it?
If I can't get it out that way it might be easier to pull the intake and get it that way I guess?
Once it's out I'm sure a light polish will get it spinning freely.
Don't be like me!
rdr
A large screwdriver inserted in the slot turing counter clockwise will generally remove most stubborn drives..
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 03:07 PM
Quote:
I have magnet wire around so I'm thinking about making a strong electromagnet to grab it and either a slap hammer or right angle on the top to pop it out. I'm thinking that something like a pilot bearing puller would be too big of a diameter to grab the hole with the distributor slot in it?
I can't imagine an electromagnet being strong enough.
I would recomment removing the intake to get more room. Get an appropriately-sized piece of box tubing and cut a U-shaped slot thru one side so that the tubing will slide around the gear. On the other side of the boxtube, weld a nut or somehow make it so that your slide hammer will attach to it. Pop it out.
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 03:12 PM
The trans pliers with the grips on the outside of the little duck bill work great for grabbing stubborn int. shaft.
Posted By: maximum entropy
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 08:27 PM
well, thank a lot, guys. now i'm paranoid. i've installed hundreds of these things, and never had a problem with clearance or spinning. i use an unworn driveshaft to drive the bushing in, and then spin it until it spins freely. hundreds (i'm old). i knew of the tool, never never knew anyone who had it, so i always made do with what i have. i never did ream or cut the bushing. maybe that's why i've gotten away with it?
Posted By: buildanother
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/18/11 11:24 PM
Don't be too paranoid, I've only taken 2 or 3 blocks apart that had spun bushings, and 2 out of the three were those white metal-aluminum type bushings. Don't know if those are factory or not, they may be.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/19/11 02:20 AM
Quote:
those white metal-aluminum type bushings. Don't know if those are factory or not, they may be.
I've seen those along w the bronze colored ones. Not sure which one is the largest OD one but yeah I think I will avoid the ones you mentioned
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/21/11 05:14 PM
from 68red440
Quote:
Keep in mind that these instructions were used for engines that were designed to run 100,000 miles. Our hobby engines never last that long so using less precise methods might have worked fine for a lot of people.
This is a great perspective on why lots of non-FSM techniques 'work'. They'll definitely work, but not indefinitely...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Bronze bushing for distributor........ - 02/21/11 06:19 PM
Quote:
well, thank a lot, guys. now i'm paranoid. i've installed hundreds of these things, and never had a problem with clearance or spinning. i use an unworn driveshaft to drive the bushing in, and then spin it until it spins freely. hundreds (i'm old). i knew of the tool, never never knew anyone who had it, so i always made do with what i have. i never did ream or cut the bushing. maybe that's why i've gotten away with it?
No you sized the bushing , maybe no the proper way , but driving it in wit han old shaft and spinning it till you could get the shaft out sized it, though you were lucky they didn't spin in the block i guess ?
I have thought about cutting a notch in an old shaft to make a sizing tool , similar to what some do with an old cam to size bearing after installed in a block .