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collateral damage from points staying closed.

Posted By: hemi68charger

collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 04:25 AM

Hey gang...
I was out and about in the Daytona yesterday and ran into a situation where I barely made it home. Turned out the points weren't opening on the distributor due to the part of the points that touches the cam was worn down. Is there any chance of collateral damage from points staying closed for the duration. It took me about 5 minutes through traffic to get home. Does the points being close cause the coil to get saturated with voltage and possibly get damaged? How about the ballast resistor being on the primary circuit?

Thanks in advance..
Troy
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 04:31 AM

I wouldn't worry about any damage from a dimished point gap,....you know how nice the Petronix is on the 500,....I mentioned earlier to ditch the points in the Daytona,...guess I put the "kabosh" on ya!

...ditch the points, ballast and coil, put a Petronix Ignitor II and Flame Thrower II coil in the Tona
Posted By: sthemi

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 06:31 AM

Should be no problem.
toss in a fresh set of points, gap them at .018 . Remember to lube the rubbing block with a tiny bit of lube...
the lube used to come with points... Di-lectric grease should work..

They should last 10k miles with no maintenance ...
Posted By: Challenger 1

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 01:41 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't worry about any damage from a dimished point gap,....you know how nice the Petronix is on the 500,....I mentioned earlier to ditch the points in the Daytona,...guess I put the "kabosh" on ya!

...ditch the points, ballast and coil, put a Petronix Ignitor II and Flame Thrower II coil in the Tona



Yea, why would you run points??? I've installed them in every vehicle I've ever touched with points.
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 02:05 PM

Quote:



Yea, why would you run points??? I've installed them in every vehicle I've ever touched with points.



I knew I couldn't do this thread without someone doing this.

I had a bad set, the distributor was brand new. But just like anything automotive, even new parts can go bad. The other distributor I had in the Daytona and the former Prestolite dual-points I had ran great for a long time.

Quote:

Should be no problem.
toss in a fresh set of points, gap them at .018 . Remember to lube the rubbing block with a tiny bit of lube...
the lube used to come with points... Di-lectric grease should work..

They should last 10k miles with no maintenance ...



Yeap, it had plenty of lube on the cam. It was a pretty new reman. distributor. I think it was a material defect on the portion of the points that makes contact with the distributor cam. Was worn down bigtime to the point where the apexes of the cam barely touched it, hence no point movement (opening/closing).

Quote:

I wouldn't worry about any damage from a dimished point gap,....you know how nice the Petronix is on the 500,....I mentioned earlier to ditch the points in the Daytona,...guess I put the "kabosh" on ya!

...ditch the points, ballast and coil, put a Petronix Ignitor II and Flame Thrower II coil in the Tona



Mike, you know me pretty well now. I like to have as much as possible OEM looking. Now, do I HAVE to have the flame thrower II coil? Chrylser coils put out pretty good spark compared to other brands, correct? I experiemented yesterday with the 500. I installed the Pertronix unit Mike gave me (older version). I took the ballast resistor and took out the coil from behind. I installed a 16 gauge wire from one spade to the next, basically creating a direct 12v flow path. This in turn feeds the (+) side of the coil with 12v. I hooked the red wire of the Pertronix unit to the (+) side of the coil and the black wire to the (-) side of the coil. Fired her up and she ran great, no different than when I had the red wire of the Pertronix going straight to the 12v feed side of the ballast resistor. Again, I want the firewall area to be as OEM correct as possible. I plan on doing this to the Daytona and keeping the single points distributor as a back up for cruising..

Thanks guys...

Also, do you think I could install the Pertronix kit I have in a Prestolite dual-point distributor? I would like to also modidy the counter-weights to limit the total degree advance to 34, therby giving me the flexibility to increase the curb idle advance. It is my understanding that big block mopars enjoy higher initial advance settings, but due to OEM design, when you do that, it increases the total advance too much..
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 02:38 PM

I used a #10 stranded wire and solderd the ends for the BR conversion

yes,they should have a conversion for the prestolight duel points dist

they have one for my mallory duellife duel point dist

if it had points I think they make a conversion for it,even brigs&straton

Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 03:09 PM

After going to Pertronix's website, apparently the kit I have is the 1st, the Ignitor. The early version is compatible with most OEM ignition coils. I just emailed their Support, I'll see what they say.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 03:41 PM

The points had to have been opening slightly or the car would not have run. The spark occurs when they open, breaking the circuit and collapsing the electrical field in the coil causing a spark discharge.

It is not a good idea to have them closed for extended periods with the key on, as it can pit the points. If you didn't specifically use distributor cam lube, the plastic tang will quickly wear off. You can always use a matchbook cover to gauge the point gap out in the field. That will be close enough to get you home, where you can then use a dwell gauge to set the proper gap.

Jeez, i'm dating myself aren't I?
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 03:45 PM

Quote:

After going to Pertronix's website, apparently the kit I have is the 1st, the Ignitor. The early version is compatible with most OEM ignition coils. I just emailed their Support, I'll see what they say.






Don't bother with the ignitor I,...go with the Ignitor II, and use the Flame Thrower II,.....as I stated in the DC.com post,...use the Petronix Flame Thrower II epoxy filled coil, it's black in appearance, looks factory...the flame thrower is rated at 3 ohms and has a 100 turn ratio, were as the factory coil has 17 ohms and a 70 turn ratio,....using the factory coil on the Petronix set-up diminishes the HallCell output, and shortens it life

Mike


I'll look up the Petronix Ignitor II set-up for your Prestolite application tonight Troy, as there are about 6 applications for Mopar ignition set-ups
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 04:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

After going to Pertronix's website, apparently the kit I have is the 1st, the Ignitor. The early version is compatible with most OEM ignition coils. I just emailed their Support, I'll see what they say.






Don't bother with the ignitor I,...go with the Ignitor II, and use the Flame Thrower II,.....as I stated in the DC.com post,...use the Petronix Flame Thrower II epoxy filled coil, it's black in appearance, looks factory...the flame thrower is rated at 3 ohms and has a 100 turn ratio, were as the factory coil has 17 ohms and a 70 turn ratio,....using the factory coil on the Petronix set-up diminishes the HallCell output, and shortens it life

Mike


I'll look up the Petronix Ignitor II set-up for your Prestolite application tonight Troy, as there are about 6 applications for Mopar ignition set-ups



Thanks Mike... But man, those puppies are expensive... The FlameThrower coil seems to be well priced..
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/24/11 04:34 PM

Quote:



I'll look up the Petronix Ignitor II set-up for your Prestolite application tonight Troy, as there are about 6 applications for Mopar ignition set-ups



This is Mike? Pertronix 1382 Mopar 383413426 59-71 (may be the Ignitor series, not the Ignitor II's)
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/25/11 12:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:



I'll look up the Petronix Ignitor II set-up for your Prestolite application tonight Troy, as there are about 6 applications for Mopar ignition set-ups



This is Mike? Pertronix 1382 Mopar 383413426 59-71 (may be the Ignitor series, not the Ignitor II's)






Troy that's the Ignitor I,...the Ignitor II is PN# PNX-91381A, you can only use this kit on the Chrysler distibutor,.....if you insist apon using the Prestolite unit then your stuck with the pn# PNX 1382 for the Ignitor I,.....I'd strongly recommend you purchase a rebuilt Chrysler RB SINGLE POINT dist for about $50, and run the PNX 91381A kit,....much more improvement over the earlier IGN I....the correct coils are Flame Thrower I PNX 40611, or for the Flame Thrower II, should you use the IGN II set up, PNX 45111,...I'd recommend you lose the ballast resistor in the system, you can still keep it for "looks" just gut it out, and solder in a #10 wire.


Mike
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/25/11 12:36 PM

Quote:



Troy that's the Ignitor I,...the Ignitor II is PN# PNX-91381A, you can only use this kit on the Chrysler distibutor,.....if you insist apon using the Prestolite unit then your stuck with the pn# PNX 1382 for the Ignitor I,.....I'd strongly recommend you purchase a rebuilt Chrysler RB SINGLE POINT dist for about $50, and run the PNX 91381A kit,....much more improvement over the earlier IGN I....the correct coils are Flame Thrower I PNX 40611, or for the Flame Thrower II, should you use the IGN II set up, PNX 45111,...I'd recommend you lose the ballast resistor in the system, you can still keep it for "looks" just gut it out, and solder in a #10 wire.


Mike



Thanks Mike.. I'll look up the Ignitor II/Flamethrower and find the best deal. I have two new single-point distributors already. For now, I'll keep the Ignitor I in the 500 since it's not going anywhere soon and I'll purchase an Ignitor II for the Daytona with the flamethrower. I couldn't find a Prestolite version of the Ignitor II. Right now can't afford nearly $300 for two II's at one pop... Also, I already have a ballast resistor with the #10 gut..
Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/25/11 12:40 PM

Summit Racing will probally be your best choice, the IGN II is listed at $95 and the coil is about $40 IIRC




There is no IGN II for Prestolite, other than the Marine version, but that's a reverse rotation set up,.....only the IGN I are avaliable for the Sm and BBllk Prestolites
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/25/11 01:53 PM

Put in another set of points & lube the cam/rubbing block sparingly/evenly & call it good for now. did the cam not get lubed or not completely covered? It had to wear down that fast/excessively for a reason & defective rubbing block hardened plastic could have been it but less likely
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/25/11 02:42 PM

Quote:

Put in another set of points & lube the cam/rubbing block sparingly/evenly & call it good for now. did the cam not get lubed or not completely covered? It had to wear down that fast/excessively for a reason & defective rubbing block hardened plastic could have been it but less likely



There was plenty of lube on the rubbing block, it was a new remanufactured distributor. I took it back yesterday and got another one.... That's what's so weird. It totally looks like a defective rubbing block or a too strong point spring (I doubt that).
Posted By: six-barrel

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/26/11 12:50 AM

Prestolite dual point --> Ignitor I

Presolite single point --> no pertronix system

MP single point aluminum --> Ignitor II and Ignitor III

If you want to keep your original look with the Prestolite, the Ignitor I is your only choice.

The phasing was poor with the Ignitor I.

Good luck
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/26/11 04:42 AM

Thanks guys..
I communicated with Carl today from Pertronix...
I will keep the Ignitor I for now in the '69 Charger 500 keeping all the other ignition components and tying into the 12v side of the ballast. I will soon purchase an Ignitor II & Flamethrower for the Daytona. I'll use the bypassed ballast resistor I made for that set-up. I have two new distributors for both applications..

Any experiments with the FBO advance limiter kit will come at a later time.
Posted By: Paul_Fancsali

Re: collateral damage from points staying closed. - 01/26/11 10:13 PM

Points are cake walk I('m having troble with a3.1 MFI Buick and I'll be dammed if I can figure out why it quits then runs perfect for month. Just put in a new set and be done with it or the pertronix. Stay away from Mopar electronic if possible. use the dist cam lube sparingly but definitly apply it
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