Moparts
Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap
Posted By: demon
Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 07:33 AM
So I've been thinking of interesting engine swaps. What about buying a running 92-95 Dakota 2WD and swapping all the driveline and wiring etc into and A,B or E body.
Everything ftom the rad,engine,overdrive automatic,rearend,wiring,guages etc. About the only modifications would be cut driveshaft, make a trans mount and maybe an inline fuel pump. Hot Rodders are using Dakotas all the time now for vintage pickups. Why not try the V6 or even the 4 cyl for something different and economical? You could even run dual exhaust on the V6 or swap a turbo off a Daytona Turbo Z etc on the 4 cyl.
Anyone done this yet? I think I might just do it because.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 07:52 AM
I've considered the V6, but if I was going to do a V6 swap I'd figure out what I would have to do to fit an LH (or later) 3.5......... The 3.9 would be easier, though.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 08:09 AM
A 3.9 V6 could be interesting. Imagine the foot long fan spacer though!
Posted By: runinonmt
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 11:19 AM
Quote:
A 3.9 V6 could be interesting. Imagine the foot long fan spacer though!
The space is taken up by the fan shroud.
The 3.9 would be a poor choice. Not much more economical than the 5.2 and a lot less power. 3.7 or the more common 3.5 seems a better choice. Since the 3.5 is used in Prowlers I would think it's possible.
4 cyl. turbo might be O.K. but lacking power until it spools up and you'll get tired of people asking where the rest of it is.
Hit the used car lots and try a car or truck with the combo you think you would like. Something near the weight of your A-Body.
Ron
Posted By: 65rbdodge
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 01:32 PM
i agree about the 3.9 being a poor choice. they have 4cyl. power with v8 gas mileage. i have an 03 dakota 4x4 w/3.9, 5 speed and 355 gears. it averages 18.5mpg(it increased by 1mpg w/k&n air filter-really!) when i`m trying to get the best mpg i can out of it. build a 318 with a small cam, small carb and good exhaust and you will get better mpg with more hp and torque than 3.9
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 02:27 PM
Why? I'd think a turbo /6 would be a better idea. If you want to go thru all that trouble a 5.2 swap would be better. My 95 dak sport 5.2 5 speed gets better milage than my buddies 94 v6 5 speed and his has 3.55's vs my 3.92's. My truck has 149k on it now still will burn them thru 3rd bang 4th and gets around 22mpg
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 04:46 PM
Quote:
Why not try the V6 or even the 4 cyl for something different and economical?
Back on track, people. 
An A-body should be a lot lighter than a 4x4 Dakota, so the V6 MPG comparisons to the 5.2 aren't the same. A 3.9 should do pretty well in an A, I'd think. Gearing would make-or-break the MPG result.
I wouldn't try the 4cyl in anything other than a super-light 66-older model, though. A 2.2 turbo/5-speed 65 BCuda sounds really neat to me! A 253hp 3.5 out of a 300M would be pretty neat, too. 
For V-6, the 3.9 should be easiest to swap, then the 3.7, then the 3.5. 3.7s take the A904 adaptation, I believe, but they are all DBW according to what I've read, so the EFI would be a nightmare (lots of OBD2 engine-vehicle stuff). The 3.5 was used in teh Prowler but that had a rear transaxle. I haven't heard of anyone adapting the 3.5 to a RWD trans (not that I know everything, but I read and netsurf a lot on these types of things).
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 05:46 PM
I had a '94 2.5 4 cyl Dakota that was a short bed and no options-- 5 spd, manual steering, no air. Probably a few hundred pounds heavier than a pre-'73 A-body. Wouldn't get out of it's own way and not much better than 22 mpg highway. Would have been fun with a 340 though.
Posted By: Kern Dog
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 06:56 PM
I have a friend that has had thoughts of putting a Toyota 22R in a 64 Valiant. He is a Mopar guy for the most part but for some reason he thinks that this is a viable swap. My contention mirrors what others have noted here.... The resultant LACK of torque coupled with the 2800+ weight would make for a S L O W vehicle which would get mediocre mileage. A well tuned slant six with a 2.76 gear can get mid to high 20s mpg. The Feather Duster and Dart Lite were EPA rated at 36 MPG in 1974, and those cars were a shade under 3000 lbs.
Posted By: Supercuda
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/20/11 11:39 PM
Nice thing about the 3.9 swap is that it puts the back of the engine about 4 inches closer to the radiator, putting most of the fat part of the trans tail shaft in an area of the trans tunnel that has more room.
I suspect the lesser weight and better aerodynamics will allow an A body to get better mileage than a truck. Don't forget, in stock form, the 3.9 is tuned to run richer than optimal for emissions reasons, the cats need fuel to work. If you kept it EFI but used Megasquirt to run it you could tune for better mileage.
Posted By: Fab64
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 01:13 AM
How about this:
Turbo 4-cyl Dart
Posted By: goldduster318
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 02:00 AM
The 3.7 should be almost as easy as the 3.9, with better results. The 3.7, being based on the 4.7, already has the same bellhousing pattern as the "A" engines, so it would bolt right up to a 727/904 or any other "A" engine backed trans. The deck height and width should not be an issue either.
If you went 4cyl, you'd want to go with the 2.4/2.4 turbo. You could also use a 2.2/2.5 turbo. None of the rest of them are worth swapping. They did make 2.4L 4cyl 2wd libertys, so a trans and oil pan should be able to be found.
If I were you, I'd do some reading on quench, and learn how to install/tune megasquirt. A high compression, good quench, small cammed, fuel injected 318 magnum with an OD trans behind it would get seriously good mileage.
Realistically, the aerodynamics aren't great on A-bodies...so getting over 30mpg at any real speed would be very difficult. I believe the aforementioned 318/OD trans combo would provide good performance (275-300hp) and could get very high 20's for mpg.
Posted By: BlakDak
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 03:28 AM
There would be a ton of fab work to turbo the Mopar 2.5 in a car, or even the Dakota, because all the factory turbo stuff would face the wrong way for RWD.
Then from like 94 or so, the Daks got the jeep 2.5
3.9 is garbage! My 2wd RC short bed Dak with a 5.9 Magnum, AT, 3.55 sure grip gets better mileage than my friends 3.9, and his dads 2.5 Daks, and they both have 5 speeds.
How about this? put a t56, with double OD behind a /6 or a v8. With a .5 OD most engines would be at idle on the highway.
But hey, if you like being slow, getting poor mileage, and have money to burn. I can hook you up with either of the above mentioned trucks. They both want V8 Daks now
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 04:14 AM
1st gen Dakotas with V8s weight about 1000lbs more than a 318 2bbl a-body. The 3.9 V6 is for MPG than the 318 but not much in a dakota, my 2000 4x4 ex cab gets 18-21 on the highway and tows just fine as long as you don't expect it to pull a car over a pass @ 75 mph. A 3.9 magnum would move an a-body handily, a 4cyl a-body will get better MPG than a 4cyl dakota because it is still around 1000 lbs lighter. Do not be afraid to try it, I would run a 3.23 gear and an a-500 and I would bet you could get 30 mpg and handily kill an average slant six in a drag race.
Now if you want to really go all out on it, get a 5 speed to swap in and install a set of 6 KB167 pistons and get the cam reground with slightly more lift or install some 1.7 roller rockers for nearly the same effect. Put a V8 throttle body on it and fill in some of the plenum area in the beer barrel intake. You will probably need some custom headers for the best MPG.
Posted By: 446acuda
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 05:01 AM
Quote:
1st gen Dakotas with V8s weight about 1000lbs more than a 318 2bbl a-body.
are you sure?? This shows a 3.9 at 3080 lbs so a 318 can't be much more.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/se...=clnk&gl=us
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 09:18 PM
I had a short bed short cab 91 2wd 318 auto and it weighed 4000 lbs empty of cargo 1/2 tank gas. My 318 68 cuda weighs 3070 and has an 8.75 rear.
Posted By: patrick
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/21/11 10:14 PM
Quote:
1st gen Dakotas with V8s weight about 1000lbs more than a 318 2bbl a-body. The 3.9 V6 is for MPG than the 318 but not much in a dakota, my 2000 4x4 ex cab gets 18-21 on the highway and tows just fine as long as you don't expect it to pull a car over a pass @ 75 mph. A 3.9 magnum would move an a-body handily, a 4cyl a-body will get better MPG than a 4cyl dakota because it is still around 1000 lbs lighter. Do not be afraid to try it, I would run a 3.23 gear and an a-500 and I would bet you could get 30 mpg and handily kill an average slant six in a drag race.
Now if you want to really go all out on it, get a 5 speed to swap in and install a set of 6 KB167 pistons and get the cam reground with slightly more lift or install some 1.7 roller rockers for nearly the same effect. Put a V8 throttle body on it and fill in some of the plenum area in the beer barrel intake. You will probably need some custom headers for the best MPG.
great minds think alike. if I were to use a 3.9, I'd use KB167's at 0 deck, and have the cam reground by bullit with the same lobes I'm using in my 318 (HR259/316) and toss a V8 TB on it.
one downer, IIRC, the 3.9 only has the newer truck mounts, not the old LA ears on it, so you'd still have to get creative on fabbing motor mounts.
I'd probably look at a 3.5L out of an LX. heck, even a 3.8L out of a wrangler in a light A body would be decent--our 4400 lb caravan gets pulled around by one just fine, would be downright peppy in a 1300 lb lighter car....toss it in front of an A833OD or AX15 and 3.21's
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/22/11 12:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
1st gen Dakotas with V8s weight about 1000lbs more than a 318 2bbl a-body. The 3.9 V6 is for MPG than the 318 but not much in a dakota, my 2000 4x4 ex cab gets 18-21 on the highway and tows just fine as long as you don't expect it to pull a car over a pass @ 75 mph. A 3.9 magnum would move an a-body handily, a 4cyl a-body will get better MPG than a 4cyl dakota because it is still around 1000 lbs lighter. Do not be afraid to try it, I would run a 3.23 gear and an a-500 and I would bet you could get 30 mpg and handily kill an average slant six in a drag race.
Now if you want to really go all out on it, get a 5 speed to swap in and install a set of 6 KB167 pistons and get the cam reground with slightly more lift or install some 1.7 roller rockers for nearly the same effect. Put a V8 throttle body on it and fill in some of the plenum area in the beer barrel intake. You will probably need some custom headers for the best MPG.
great minds think alike. if I were to use a 3.9, I'd use KB167's at 0 deck, and have the cam reground by bullit with the same lobes I'm using in my 318 (HR259/316) and toss a V8 TB on it.
one downer, IIRC, the 3.9 only has the newer truck mounts, not the old LA ears on it, so you'd still have to get creative on fabbing motor mounts.
I'd probably look at a 3.5L out of an LX. heck, even a 3.8L out of a wrangler in a light A body would be decent--our 4400 lb caravan gets pulled around by one just fine, would be downright peppy in a 1300 lb lighter car....toss it in front of an A833OD or AX15 and 3.21's
Well, if you're already talking about building an engine then you have some money to blow. That gives you more options.
The 3.9 just doesn't sound like an efficient engine. 3800lb truck, 2800lb car, an inefficient 3.9 is an inefficient 3.9. Why not look for a different plant? The 4.7L DOHC V8 will probably get similar mpg, make way more power and sound better than a 318 ever could. Dont even unbolt the OD tranny from the back if you can get away with it.
A N/A 4cyl engine in a 2800-3000lb car would probably suck. Thing is, stuff a 4cyl engine into an A-body and you'd have to seriously do something wrong to have it weigh that much. If a slant 6 weighs 425-475lbs (??? they are NOT light...) and likely comes with a heavy trans too, then what could a modern all alum 4cyl weigh with a modern 5spd? People have had 67-up A-bodies done out with 225's and weigh 2600lbs easy. 4cyl? how about 2500lbs? 2400lbs...??? NOW you might have something... You can now get away with flimsy cooling, driveshaft, diff, all kinda ov stuff. 2400 could get liberal...
Read up on the 4cyl Fox body Mustang guys... Some ov those guys are doing basic, non-invasive mods on their cars... again, already light cars before they start weight-reduction, and are keeping up with stock 5.0L Foxes with these 2.3/T5 cars. My brother had a 2700-2800lb 69 Valiant Signet with a bunch ov heavy stuff in it, and a hot-rodded 225/A833OD/8 1/4" set up. That car could have been 2600lbs easy. Convert to 4cyl and it could have been 2400. And THEN you could get into fiberglass and really serious weight-loss measures... Now, start with an earlier, lighter body style...
Hmmm...
One thing though... i will never understand the draw ov turbo'd 4cyl engines. Sure... you can make V8 power. So... why not use a V8...??? Far less BS to deal with at that power level, the same bloody gas-mileage, and it doesn't sound like smashed ass. Cars with no engine bay? sure. The pinto guys have a point. But if you've got room...
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/22/11 01:14 PM
On an odd/strange/queer/bizarre but related note...
Me and an import buddy were bench racing a while back. We got to talking about the Honda s2000 when i started talking about Ford 2.3L's. Here you have a 2800lb car with a N/A 2L 4cyl engine, that makes 240HP, mated to what is an apparently amazing 6spd transmission, and RWD. I thought hey, lets put one in my Pinto. He joked and said lets put one in your Challenger...
Much demented math later...
70 6cyl/3spd stick/7 1/4" Challenger... NO options. 3006lb curb weight, less the rust mine now has. Ditch the six, all the old powertrain and anything else we could think ov, drop in a 2L Honda 4/6spd, small alum shaft, keep the 7 1/4"... and then go to town on the usual ('tasteful') Jenny Craig treatment. At VERY minimum... we were looking at the s2000 powertrain in an old car that weighed the same or less. If you kept the rolling stock within reason you could theoretically expect to replicate the Honda performance...???
13 second 1/4's, 150+ top speed, 30 mpg...??? Well, not quite. The sheer aerodynamics would prevent that, but you might get close. Maybe a 14 second 1/4, 120mpg top speed, 25mpg...??? That pretty much exceeds most Challengers if we're being honest. Now, ov course you'd have a better exhaust doing a custom swap... other mods, more weight reduction, aero mods would help especially in a low-torque combo... Things could get interesting. Not to mention the mindblown looks you'd get at a Mopar show with the sound ov a 9000rpm buzzbomb coming from under the hood ov a badass looking car...
Bet with an all aluminum ricer powertrain you could get that sucker down to 2500lbs with a LOT ov steel left in the car. Anyone want to donate a car for the experiment...??? I'll send it to my buddy. I'm not touching this one... . . .
Posted By: Pale_Roader
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/23/11 03:08 PM
Wow... no flame for that last post...??? I still cant believe i even typed that out on a public forum... (kinda like one ov those 'did i just say that out loud?' moments...)
Posted By: zrxkawboy
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/23/11 03:56 PM
Posted By: feets
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/23/11 08:46 PM
The 3.5 HO engines were always mounted like a RWD car. The LHS and 300M used the engine in the same orientation with a transaxle mounted behind the engine.
It's an all aluminum engine that would be a prime candidate for this kind of swap. You would need to run the factory computer to keep the variable cam timing and variable intake manifold operating.
Posted By: 340duster340
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/23/11 11:48 PM
Quote:
On an odd/strange/queer/bizarre but related note...
Me and an import buddy were bench racing a while back. We got to talking about the Honda s2000 when i started talking about Ford 2.3L's. Here you have a 2800lb car with a N/A 2L 4cyl engine, that makes 240HP, mated to what is an apparently amazing 6spd transmission, and RWD. I thought hey, lets put one in my Pinto. He joked and said lets put one in your Challenger...
Much demented math later...
70 6cyl/3spd stick/7 1/4" Challenger... NO options. 3006lb curb weight, less the rust mine now has. Ditch the six, all the old powertrain and anything else we could think ov, drop in a 2L Honda 4/6spd, small alum shaft, keep the 7 1/4"... and then go to town on the usual ('tasteful') Jenny Craig treatment. At VERY minimum... we were looking at the s2000 powertrain in an old car that weighed the same or less. If you kept the rolling stock within reason you could theoretically expect to replicate the Honda performance...???
13 second 1/4's, 150+ top speed, 30 mpg...??? Well, not quite. The sheer aerodynamics would prevent that, but you might get close. Maybe a 14 second 1/4, 120mpg top speed, 25mpg...??? That pretty much exceeds most Challengers if we're being honest. Now, ov course you'd have a better exhaust doing a custom swap... other mods, more weight reduction, aero mods would help especially in a low-torque combo... Things could get interesting. Not to mention the mindblown looks you'd get at a Mopar show with the sound ov a 9000rpm buzzbomb coming from under the hood ov a badass looking car...
Bet with an all aluminum ricer powertrain you could get that sucker down to 2500lbs with a LOT ov steel left in the car. Anyone want to donate a car for the experiment...??? I'll send it to my buddy. I'm not touching this one... . . .
i like the idea, but think a 66 dart would be better to start with, smaller, prob a little lighter.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/24/11 01:00 AM
A valiant is lighter than a dart.
The mopar action article is wrong about when the motor mounts were switched, my 91 dak had the flat mounts on the sides of the 318, it also had the old ear type but they were not used.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/24/11 04:07 PM
Nobody's even mentioned the increase in handling & braking made possible by going to a 3.9, aluminum 3.5, or aluminum 4 cyl.
10" drums are starting to look race-ready!
Has anyone seen any RWD trans adaptation for the 3.5? Anyone know if/how much different from 904 configuration?
Posted By: patrick
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/24/11 05:05 PM
the LX is a RWD, and they've used the 42RE and the A580 behind it....
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/24/11 06:27 PM
Ok, I had a 2 door Dodge Shadow ES with a 2.5 NA and a A-520 5 speed, 3.55:1 gears. Stock it was a slug. Weighed about 2900 Lbs. But I did a few mods to it. Got Hypereutic pistons that bumped it to 9.5 and then shaved the block 0.030 and 0.020 off the head. The measured CR was 11.2:1. I then ported the head and put the middle sized valves in. Ported Iron ex manifold. Then 2.5" pipes. I had a LRE 260 Degree Roller cam. Removed the balence shafts. Deep oil pan with a windage tray. Mallory VI version of a MSD multy-spark. Weber 2v 32mm carb. Weight reduced down to 2500 LBs. It ran 14.25's if I short shifted at 4500 RPM. Got 41 MPG, 90% freeway, if I tried but normal driving it avaraged 37 MPG in mixed traffic. My 65 Cuda weiged at 2900 Lbs with a TEEN, A904 and 7 1/4 rear.
On a 3.9 V6, find a 3.8 Buick Type T turbo setup and swap in on. With 4 to 6 PSI should work. I just happen to have a Type T setup for a Q-Jet 4 bbl.
Put a 2.8 CRD from a Liberty in a A body...
There are loads of hop-ups for this Deisel. Stroke it to a 3.1, bigger turbo....... Stock was 160 to 180 HP with lots of torque.
Posted By: GO_Fish
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/24/11 07:22 PM
I thought the Liberty diesel was a problem child??
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 01/25/11 04:02 AM
Quote:
I thought the Liberty diesel was a problem child??
I know that the factory torque converter was junk and the fix was to back the timing and boost down, lowering the HP from 180 to 160. Pop a TCI converter in and go for it. It would be a slow rev'ing combo.
Posted By: demon
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/02/12 05:23 PM
A lot of interesting ideas coming up here. I lke keeping my Mopar cars Mopar powered. My thoughts on the Dakota 4 cyl were mostly just to be different, and since the FWD cars had turbos it would be fairly easy to add the turbo to one.
92-96 Dakotas also have a nice basic wire harness and guage cluster that would swap into an A body dash easily making the wiring a snap.
If I had a 93 ish 4 cyl Dakota, I could gut the truck and swap almost everything into a Dart or other A body.
Any other ideas?
Posted By: savoy64
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/02/12 11:37 PM
check out the factory dodge 4 cylinder midget race engines--i think they are built on the 2.5 motor and for the last 10 years they have dominated the midget racing----on another note one of my friends ran an offroad buggy based on a dodge fwd with a 2.2 motor topped with a cosworth head---he was very competitive in the mickey thompson series and baja venues----bob
Posted By: DARTH V8Я
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/03/12 12:08 AM
Where are you guys getting these 3000lb numbers for stock a-bodies? My bare bones basic 1972 Valiant weighed in at 3300lbs with \6 & full interior with less the a 1/4 tank of fuel.
Posted By: RSNOMO
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/03/12 12:53 AM
I had a stock '70 340 Duster...
Weighed-in at 3150...
Posted By: rustbuckett68
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/03/12 03:14 AM
68 V-100, /6, 904, 7 1/4", 9" drums and rubber mats, no PS or PB was 2900.
Posted By: DARTH V8Я
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/03/12 03:16 AM
Quote:
I had a stock '70 340 Duster...
Weighed-in at 3150...
K, thats pretty light. Are \6's that heavy as compared to a 340?
Quote:
68 V-100, /6, 904, 7 1/4", 9" drums and rubber mats, no PS or PB was 2900.
So basic 'taxi cab' kinda setup?
Posted By: feets
Re: Dakota V6 or 4 Cyl Into A Body Swap - 07/03/12 04:46 AM
A slant 6 weighs about 50 lbs less than a 318.
This is a pretty old thread to dig up. There was a comment about the 4 cyl sprint engines. Many of them were based on one bank of an LA engine and take a single cylinder head. Those things will crank out some power!