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Rebuilding an TF-727

Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 01:56 AM

Has anyone here that's not a transmission mechanic rebuilt a 727 trans? I have a big block 727 core correct for my car and I found a small block 727 newly rebuilt with HD parts and stage 2 shift kit for dirt cheap (a third the price of new).

How much of a challenge would it be to swap the guts? is it worth it?
Posted By: 70AARcuda

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 03:36 AM

about 5 yrs ago..i decided to rebuild my own trans ...got the ATSG and 727 video...never looked back.

the 727/904 are easy trans to rebuild.
Posted By: wicked

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 03:44 AM

I've been through a few, get yourself an ATSG manual one of the better ones. Haynes manual has photos which can be helpful, but not as much tech. They are not difficult to do, but time consuming. There have been some subtle changes throughout the year spread so pumps can be case specific and the shafts and planetaries and such need to be kept together as there were some differences in the splined areas. The paperwork for the shift kit would be important if any case mods were made. clean is important, a piece of lint can jam a valve.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 04:34 AM

It'll be a piece of cake, get the manual , check the end play on both trans. before you take them a part , record and compare to the new one after reassembly .
Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 04:54 AM

Quote:


the 727/904 are easy trans to rebuild.




I have done so many, I can almost do them blindfolded
Posted By: 70B5Cuda

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 05:29 AM

But can you do it blindfolded while hanging upside down in your closet?
Posted By: nomore65BelvJim

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 06:09 AM

Quote:



How much of a challenge would it be to swap the guts? is it worth it?




you can do it Lindy

as said, get the manuals! and remember to keep everything very clean.
Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 10:14 AM

That's encouraging! I'm gonna go for it. If I buy new, what kit should I buy, considering its goingbehind a 500 HP 451 stroker? what is an ATSG? Should I go manual valve body? Is There a way to customize the b body shifter so that it works like a slapstik? I hate the idea of gingerly pushing through the shifts.
Posted By: 67Charger

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 11:11 AM

My first attempt at a trans was a 727 using the B&M $250 kit. It has a good step by step book in it with options on how to build it to suit your needs. I tried it, and it is still in the car to this day after hundreds of passes down into the 10's and some high speed 90 mile long open road races doing over 140 mph. It is very easy if you are patient.
Posted By: Mattax

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 01:48 PM

Shift kits are relatively easy. Anything requireing pulling the front pump will need a slide hammer (preferably two but I did it with one). Deeper in there are a few things that are best to remove with drivers made to fit. That's where it can be a real pain. My impression is most folks either leave those parts or (like I did) find someone who has the tools.

I made a stand out of angle iron to hold the case while working on it. Not critical, but something to consider.

Swapping guts may or may not make sense - depends on the years and exactly which guts. The Monroe book on 727 transmissions covers the year to year variations etc. Well worth buying for someone considering swapping parts.
Posted By: Nukechargerboy

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 02:18 PM

I 2nd that book. Very informative and it has a hipo section for tweaking. Hundreds of pictures in a clear and concise method, you really can't screw up. When I rebuilt mine I was greatly impressed by the previous rebuilder, as I have had this tranny for 25 years and haven't put it into a car yet. I bought the book and did a refresh on the internals. I didn't change any bushings but that isn't really that hard. It's a good time to strenghten your trans for later mods, that's why I went through mine, maybe one day i'll get that stroker.....
Posted By: Mopar_Country

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 04:47 PM

Quote:

what is an ATSG?





http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=229
Posted By: 69L78Nova

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 05:11 PM

Quote:

But can you do it blindfolded while hanging upside down in your closet?




Not hanging in a closet, but I rebuilt an 833 some years back while blindfolded, hanging upside down from a pine tree
Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 05:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what is an ATSG?





http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=229




Perfect. Thank you.

So what's the best way to support trans while rebuilding? build a bench jig? I was wondering if an engine stand would work but thought it would block the nose gear too much.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 05:48 PM

Here are some kits that are reasonably priced.

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/mercha...;Category_Code=

http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=9102

Get a deluxe kit and you should be pretty set.
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 06:59 PM

Quote:

So what's the best way to support trans while rebuilding? build a bench jig?




I used a piece of particle board, with a hole in it, overtop of a trashcan.

You really only need it verticle for when you load the tailshaft and overrunning clutch. After that, I made a fixture, out of 2X4's, to flip the trans on its back and load the planetaries and clutches. There's 2 ears on each side of the trans, towards the rear, that make a good place for a "stand".

A factory service manual is actually very good to start with. The book by Munroe will answer any and all questions thereafter.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 09:53 PM

B Body Bob had the best IIRC

A wheelbarrow stood up with the trans between the handles... Priceless Wish I had a pic of it.
Posted By: a12rag

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 10:42 PM

Timely . . . Just before christmas, I was at my buddies place in Spokane, and we rebuilt a small block 727 . . . he is the seasoned vet, and I had NEVER pulled a tranny apart before. Course he made it look easy, but realistically, having the book, and the tool for holding the pistons down on the springs in order to get the snap rings in, made everything way easy !!!

I figure you just take your time, pull it apart, inspect everything and replace your steels & clutch discs & thrust bearings/washers and your seals, and you will be good to go !!!

Course my buddy has a hot tank washer unit - man it works great !!! So the case was like brand new again !!! . . .never used a slide hammer to pull the front pump out of the case, took the guts out and then just "tapped" the front pump out using a hammer and extension . . . .

After doing this one tranny, with his help, I would certainly say, go for it !!! . . .

Cheers

Mark
Posted By: bb74swngr

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/04/11 11:52 PM

It's been a few years since I did a rebuild and have only done a few. It seems to me that all of the pumps I pulled had additional threaded holes that I screwed bolts into to "push" the pump out. Removed all of the bolts holding the pump in and then threaded/ran the bolts in to remove the pump. Didn't need a slide puller.
Russ...
Posted By: bboogieart

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/05/11 12:19 AM

I used two pieces of threaded rod and a chunk of angle iron with the slide hammer and worked very well. Used 2x4 s and a piece of plywood with a hole cut in it to hold the case. Just keep it clean and keep track of where everything came from and you should have no problem.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/05/11 12:44 AM

Quote:

It's been a few years since I did a rebuild and have only done a few. It seems to me that all of the pumps I pulled had additional threaded holes that I screwed bolts into to "push" the pump out. Removed all of the bolts holding the pump in and then threaded/ran the bolts in to remove the pump. Didn't need a slide puller.
Russ...




Those threaded holes are intended for using a slide hammer... It you thread bolts in to force the pump out your pushing against the bolt hole in the case that secures the pump to the case & you risk damaging the threads in the aluminum case... I've seen guys do it & get away with it but I've also seen guys have to heli-coil what was a good case...
Posted By: Big Bad Bee

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/06/11 10:25 PM

Outstanding stuff. I'll build a little platform for my bench with hole in it. You guys are great. I've got to hit up Bob for a picture of that wheel borrow... That's a hoot.
Posted By: RobX4406

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/07/11 12:05 AM

You don't need a slide hammer, nor do you need to thread bolts against the machined surface to remove the pump.

The video from "technical videos" by Paul Zank has a really good deal on removing the pump.
Posted By: 70runner

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/07/11 04:31 AM

I rebuilt my first one recently, dry just to learn and check tolerances. Added shift kit and 4 pinion planet. Pretty straightforward. Between the FSM and Monroe book, you should be covered.
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Rebuilding an TF-727 - 01/07/11 08:50 AM

They are not too difficult, but there are several "tricks" and special tools that make it easier.
Usually doing a refresh, if the trans is in decent shape, the clearances should come out correct. If you start swaping major components, and adding a bunch of HP parts you may need various thickness snap rings and bushings to set the clearances correctly. If you have never rebuilt one before, take some pictures when disassembling the transmission, and some close up photos of how the over-running clutch rollers and springs are assembled. It is easy to install the springs wrong, and most manuals don't show/explain the correct way to install them. The servos can also be a bear to install.
When doing the valve body, set the selector detent ball and spring apart from the rest of the valve body so you don't confuse those parts with the balls and springs inside the valve body.
You will need a bushing driver to replace worn bushings. Before I bought a driver, I just took the parts to a trans shop and had them do it. usually the torque converter hub bushing in the pump and the output shaft bushing in the tail shaft need replacing. Also sometimes the front drum bushing.
You need to compress the front drum spring retainer to replace the seals for the front clutch piston. I made my own tool to do this, but I have also done it using two large C-clamps and a flat peice of plywood under the drum. You should be able to compress the rear servo by hand, but need the large C-clamp to compress the front servo.
As mentioned, removing the front pump, screw in some long 3/8" bolts with large washers into the two threaded pump holes, the slide the "U" shaped part of a prybar along the bolt hitting the washer like a slide hammer. There are other ways to get the pump out, but that is what I use.
For assembly, get some long 5/16" bolts and cut the heads off so you can align the pump and gasket up when reinstalling the pump. This is easiest if the trans is held so the pump is straight up, with the tailshaft pointing down. If you don't have trans assembly lube, vasoline works OK.
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