multiple balancer timing marks

Posted By: StukaJU87

multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 01:19 AM

My '68 440 engine has 4 marks on the balancer. When I bought the motor the seller had pulled the distributor. I used my thumb in the #1 spark plug hole and turned the motor to TDC.

How am I supposed to know which mark is "the" mark?

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 01:44 AM

it will be the one cut all the way across the damper

the others should only be 3/4 ways across

use a screw driver to feel the top of the piston and rock it back and forth to get TDC

check alinement phase of the itermed shaft slot for dist flat and make sure it points rotor at # 1 term on cap

it turns CCW on the dist

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 01:49 AM

Quote:

it will be the one cut all the way across the damper

the others should only be 3/4 ways across

I am going to check this tomorrow, Mike. I am thinking they all go across but I may be mistaken. Thanks for the info.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:16 AM

if they do go all the way across,then check to make sure #1 has both valves closed and piston at the tdc..use the mark that lines up on 0*

mine has the bullet nose damper for cast crank

IIRC you have a thin one

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:27 AM

Yeah, mine is the thin one. Why would they put all these marks on the balancer?

The one on my 383 has only one mark.

Posted By: stumpy

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:44 AM

Because your 383 has a pointer that has the before and after tdc degrees on it and your 440 has a pointer and the degrees are on the balancer,

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:55 AM

Quote:

Because your 383 has a pointer that has the before and after tdc degrees on it and your 440 has a pointer and the degrees are on the balancer,

Well, the 440 pointer has before/after TDC degrees on it too. That is part of what is confusing me.

Posted By: RBSat66

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 03:09 AM

Could the 4 marks have something to do with setting the valves? As in certain marks should have different valves open.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 03:25 AM

magnetic wand for osilascope machine-for timeing/settings goes in the u-shape on the timing tab(on my 78 440)and use the other lines/marks,the balencer can have #s and lines with crankshaft * increments,and may very well have something to do with valve lash

the are not stamped very deep in the damper either

most times they are painted over and you dont notice them,seen them on a lot of SB dampers

usally only one full line is cut across the damper to mark 0*TDC

you can referance the throw on the crank by the keyway in the end of crank with damper off,same with cam and doing a t-chain

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 03:59 AM

Quote:

usally only one full line is cut across the damper to mark 0*TDC:

but if all 4 do go across I'd start from scratch(n) & bump the starter relay until you feel compression on your thumb on #1 & go from there

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 04:46 AM

My freekin' GAWUDWUDEAD!!!

Just get or make a POSITIVE STOP and FIND absolutely correct tdc:

Remove the ground cable for safety, determine that the piston is down a ways, and put the stop in no1

Gently wrench the engine around, until it stops, then make a temporary mark on the wheel right under the TDC mark on the timing tab.

Do the same CCW.

Now you'll have two temporary marks some distance apart. True TDC will be halfway between the two, and if any of the marks on the wheel are still accurate, that's where one of them will be.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:11 PM

and DONT FORGET TO REMOVE THE POSITIVE PISTON STOP before cranking it over with starter..DAMHIK

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 02:55 PM

Quote:

and DONT FORGET TO REMOVE THE POSITIVE PISTON STOP before cranking it over with starter..DAMHIK

No chance of that happening as the motor is still out of the car.

Posted By: buildanother

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 04:25 PM

You can use a soft drink straw if you don't have the fancy stop tool, or even the red snorkel tube off your brakeleen can.

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/23/10 05:51 PM

Quote:

You can use a soft drink straw if you don't have the fancy stop tool, or even the red snorkel tube off your brakeleen can.

Not a chance. What you are trying to accomplish, here is that the marks are ACTUALLY ACCURATE. Sticking sticks, screwdrivers, straws, nails, coat hangers, or any other imaginable object in there is a complete waste of time.

Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 02:12 AM

I agree, proper use of a mechanical piston stop and then measurement is the ONLY accurate way to determine TDC and confirm the accuracy of the timing marks on the balancer.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 03:15 AM

Quote:

When I bought the motor the seller had pulled the distributor. I used my thumb in the #1 spark plug hole and turned the motor to TDC.

I'm assuming that you are not blueprinting exact TDC on this deal. What you said; Bump it from the relay until you feel compression building then w a breaker bar continue to hand turn it CW until the marks are at 10BTDC then install dist/rotate housing to where, The vac can is roughly where you want it/the rotor is under (or close to) #1 wire/the closest reluctor blade is dead even w the magnet slot/lightly snugged dist holddown so you can time it when it fires.

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 04:13 AM

No, I am not blueprinting anything.

I checked today and there are indeed 4 marks on the balancer and all go all the way across.

If you view from the front of the motor starting with the mark furthest left:

1st mark is bolder (slightly wider and deeper) than the other three. Moving right there is about a 1 3/4" space until the next mark. Then about 5/8" to the next and maybe 1" to the last. (those are all guesses) I can get the exact measurements tomorrow if you think that will help. The three that are closest together are all uniformly thinner and less deep grooves.

If I had to guess, I'd say the bold line is it. I think the positive stop may be my only answer.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 04:31 AM

Quote:

I think the positive stop may be my only answer.

definitely not 90 deg valve timing marks

. Never seen ones like you describe. Yeah sounds as said you need the TDC stop.

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 05:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think the positive stop may be my only answer.

definitely not 90 deg valve timing marks . Never seen ones like you describe. Yeah sounds as said you need the TDC stop.

Robert, I will take pics and measurements tomorrow just to let you see what I am dealing with.

Posted By: buildanother

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 06:10 AM

Well, you can use the plastic straw to certainly get you to the obvious closest timing mark out of the 4 of them.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 06:38 AM

Quote:

Well, you can use the plastic straw to certainly get you to the obvious closest timing mark out of the 4 of them.

You can get it w the straw. We're wanting the correct mark (out of the 4) not finding exact TDC. unless they are real close (& unfortunately they are fairly close) & I'm thinking a PO made the 3 extra marks for certain degrees of advance that he was working with. 0632683" is 1 degree

Posted By: buildanother

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 06:46 AM

Yeah, I've seen multiple mfg's with multiple marks on balancer, kindof forcing you to use the old noggin.

And some vans motor homes etc, can have indicators on bottom of engine causing problems in pass car application then.

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 06:55 AM

Yeah I've only dealt w the std (1) slit pass car dampeners (BB) and some SB's w the partial ones/1 full one like Scratchn mentioned. Hope he posts a clear/close up pic of what we're dealing w & hopefully solve this

Posted By: StukaJU87

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 09:17 PM

Quote:

Yeah I've only dealt w the std (1) slit pass car dampeners (BB) and some SB's w the partial ones/1 full one like Scratchn mentioned. Hope he posts a clear/close up pic of what we're dealing w & hopefully solve this

Here ya go, Robert. I installed the TC bolts today so I rotated it around to try to get better views.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 09:26 PM

IMO,the one down below the timing tab is the 0* mark to use

the others are not as deep as you said

roll the lower/deeper cut line up to 0* and check for TDC

I will wager thats it

Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: multiple balancer timing marks - 12/24/10 10:32 PM

We got a clear pic! & that is a 1st for me

(that many marks). W the one at the bottom being that far seperate plus the 3 bunched ones being "advanced" I'd say the chances are good. Stick the straw in there & lets find out. Turn it CW till the bottom mark is at O on the tab then stick the straw in then w your breaker bar/socket move the crank back & forth a bit on either side of the O & see if you're at the piston "dwell" point (can move the crank back/forth a bit from O & the straw does not move). If so put that mark at 10 BTDC (make sure your on #1 compression) then set the dist.