Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi?

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 04:12 PM

I am still trying to determine what to put in my 71 challenger convertible. I bought it with a 1972 400 that needs a rebuild. Its going to have a 5 or 6 speed tranny but I don't know if I should build the 400 into a stroker motor or put in a 5.7 or 6.1 hemi from the bone yard. I know the conversion kits for the hemis have got much better/easier.

What would you do if you had the choice? I'm also assuming the prices will be somewhat similar after all is said and done, would you agree?

Posted By: Boosted

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 04:36 PM

I would say for a daily driver that you would want to take out of town and enjoy with the top down the 5.7 hemi would be the ticket... You will get some performance, mpg and drive-ability will be allot better also..

And you can put the Hemi emblems on it...

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 04:49 PM

Well the price thing could be argued either way depending on what you use and how good of deals you can get and so could HP. If you are thinking that you want to use stock heads than the 6.1 will be faster, it will make more HP OOTB and weigh a lot less, plus with a big stoker kit in the future and CNC ported stock heads it can make incredible HP, the big block will need heavily worked Victors to keep up in the HP department. Now TQ on the other hand it will be hard for the hemi to keep up as most of the stroker kits for the hemi only get up to 440 or so cubes while the 400 block can swallow over 500 cubes. To make 700 hp with a hemi you add a 440 stroker kit and port the heads, 950hp on a mopar single plane intake or XV intake and big cam and you are there, stock blocks can take it with their cross bolted mains. 700 hp in a 400 block is scarey, you need a good girdle, aluminum caps, aftermarket heads...

You will get lots of different takes on the subject but that is my

Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 04:53 PM

Phew, tough question of the day.......

I would go with the 400 stroker: The car is already set up for it, you can build it to any power level you want, and the maintenance is simple.

If you are going for something more modern with the 5.7/6.1 then the engine will be out-dated by the time you are done the swap. That is, the 6.4 is already on it's way out, the 5.7 has already gone through significant changes, and I'm sure Mopar is working on the final version of the Hemi; a 426/7.0 liter. To keep up with the new engines is going to be very expensive.

What is it that you want to be able to do with the car?

Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 05:18 PM

With a nice stroker engine which is build for torque you don't need 5 or 6 gears nor steep gears in the back.
The stock transmission or an A518 with a bigblock-bellhousing and 3.23 gears are more than enough for happy cruising.
The Hemi only adds potential 'misery'

in the form of a bunch wires, injectors and computer stuff. Sure it will mostlikely get better MPG but other than that probably the only fun-factor is when you open the hood.
With a stroker motor the fun happens every time you press the gaspedal...

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 06:09 PM

Quote:

What would you do if you had the choice? I'm also assuming the prices will be somewhat similar after all is said and done, would you agree?

The 400 stroker without question. Not a fan of modern motors in classic cars. I believe the 400 stroker would be simpler; and, I believe, cheaper and easier.

.....some jurisdictions insist that you use all the polution controls that came with a particular motor rather than the car itself. Maybe not where you are today, but in the future who knows? Just another thing to think about.

Anyway, that's what *I* would do.

Dave

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/01/10 06:25 PM

Stroker will be muuuch cheaper and muuuuch easier.

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:13 AM

Well those are exactly the responses I was looking for. I am not going for 700hp, rather a fun, reliable and snappy ride. I really don't care much about mpg's as this is strictly a "fun" car, not a daily driver (except to work on all nice days, work is only a mile away from home).

So, now that I'm leaning towards the 400 stroked, tell me how you would build it.

What kit?
How many cubes?
Heads?
six pack? dual 4's? efi? single?
others?
estimated price (roughly)?

I hope this is not asking to much and I'm sure answers will be all over the place, but would be nice to get a bunch of opinions. Again, don't care about high hp, lets just build a fun motor that doesn't break the bank!

Posted By: hemibeep

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:15 AM

another angle, a 5.7 and 6.1 will not "sound" like a big block. I have a 6.1 in my runner and even with upgraded cam, it is not the same.

And the wiring and mods are a bit of a challenge, but do-able.

However that 6.1 does run real nice.

Posted By: forphorty

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:47 AM

roll bar?

Posted By: Boosted

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:55 AM

The reason I said the 5.7 was that this car is a vert.. I have never been a fan of any vert being on the race car side..

Want more hp than that stroker? Add a turbo tp the 5.7 and run away from the stroker 400. And that is easy... I am looking at a 67 fast back barracuda for a race car and it will have a turbocharged 5.7 in it.. I just do not understand why people are so afraid of wiring...

have a 512 in my Challenger... would I do it again? nope.. everything from here on will be late model stuff...

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:00 AM

Quote:

The reason I said the 5.7 was that this car is a vert.. I have never been a fan of any vert being on the race car side..

Want more hp than that stroker? Add a turbo tp the 5.7 and run away from the stroker 400. And that is easy... I am looking at a 67 fast back barracuda for a race car and it will have a turbocharged 5.7 in it.. I just do not understand why people are so afraid of wiring...

have a 512 in my Challenger... would I do it again? nope.. everything from here on will be late model stuff...

yeah put a turbo on a stroker 400 and it will run away from a 5.7. apples to onions there..
easy? it's not EASY to add a turbo to a BB, Let alone fab something up to a new 5.7 or 6.1. And if you keep it injected it becomes more complicated. Not too mention if you want to run a new auto trans or a 5-6 speed you'll have to start cutting up the car. I guess if you own a shop or work for a magazine everything is easy. But for most of us here it is not easy and not a practical build to take on.

Posted By: ahy

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:19 AM

I'd go with the stroker. The 3.75 stroke 451 or 3.9 stroke 470 make great combos with decent height pistons and rod ratio for durability. Top it off with mildly ported Edelbrock or Stealth heads and a cam in the 230-240 @.050 intake range and you should have 450 to 500 torquey and streetable HP. Compression ratio in the low to mid 10's with quench should be very happy with pump gas.

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:27 AM

Anyone else?

Posted By: JDMopar

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:40 AM

I can tell you from experience, that if you want to enjoy the car because it's a convertible....don't get too carried away with the motor. When I built my 71 Challenger conv. back in 92, I put a beast of a 340 six pak motor in it. Sure it ran like a gut shot cat, but it was not much fun just to ride in. I ended up taking the hot 340 out, and replacing it with a mild 360 around 94-95. It's still in there, and the car is MUCH more enjoyable without all the thumping,shaking and having to hunt race gas. If you build a stroker, build a mild 451 that you can run big block HP manifolds on, and get one of Jamie Passons new 5 spds to go behind it. Good luck

Posted By: 69Cuda340S

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:48 AM

I would stroke that 400 and run some ported aluminum heads on there. Torque is king in a street car and with a stick you won't be able to get the smile off your face. As for stroker kit have a good local shop balance it so that it gets balanced correctly. You need to hook up with someone who knows how to build a stroked 400 and have them guide you through choosing the right parts based on what you want.

Posted By: dezduster

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:51 AM

Yes build a 408 small block. I like the little package big bang effect. Light weight = better handling better stopping,oh and with my 422 small block 11.1 stock eddies and a hughes flat tappet hyd cam my duster was getting 20 mpg at 70mph. Keisler 5 speed and 3.23 gears helped.

Posted By: ledft79

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 04:51 AM

I think it all boils down to, do you want to put highway miles on it, or do you want to put 1/4 miles on it? Where is your heart at with this car?

Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:32 PM

My vote would be about a 500 to 512 stroker in the 400 block. 10.5 to 1 Ported Edelbrocks (jump on one of the deals on race section) A mild hydraulic roller cam (but milder cam for sure 230/236 ish @ .050 duration.)
will make a good cruiser in a 505 will act like a 218/224 cam in a 400 cube.
5 speed and have plenty cruising fun. 750 3310 vacuum sec or an 800 edelbrock thunder series.

Posted By: 1972challenger

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 02:57 PM

I'd run the 400. You own it. I'd stroke it. Had a 452 stroker with M.P. aluminum heads, 500 horse on pump gas and it's still running strong 10 years and 80k later.

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 03:15 PM

Quote:

I think it all boils down to, do you want to put highway miles on it, or do you want to put 1/4 miles on it? Where is your heart at with this car?

No 1/4 miles. Maybe stop light to stop light

but mainly car shows and cruising around town but like I said, mpg's is not an issue, the fun factor is! Oh, and money could be a factor also so think somewhat towards budget.

Posted By: patrick

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 04:47 PM

Quote:

Well those are exactly the responses I was looking for. I am not going for 700hp, rather a fun, reliable and snappy ride. I really don't care much about mpg's as this is strictly a "fun" car, not a daily driver (except to work on all nice days, work is only a mile away from home).

So, now that I'm leaning towards the 400 stroked, tell me how you would build it.

What kit?
How many cubes?
Heads?
six pack? dual 4's? efi? single?
others?
estimated price (roughly)?

I hope this is not asking to much and I'm sure answers will be all over the place, but would be nice to get a bunch of opinions. Again, don't care about high hp, lets just build a fun motor that doesn't break the bank!

personally, for a snappy, quick cruiser I'd go with a 5.7 or 6.1 with an upgraded cam. 400-500 HP is easy with decent manners and probably still getting 20mpg on the highway.

tranny, I'd maybe check out the new passon 5 speed.

since the car is already set up for a big block, what about keeping the 400 but NOT stroking it? AndyF made ~580HP with aroller cammed, eddie headed, stock stroke 400 running an RPM air gap intake and 800 eddie carb about 4 or 5 years ago. maybe he can pipe in with the combo details, or search the race section for 580HP 406...

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 05:13 PM

451, Eddy or MP Alum Heads, 10:1, RPM Air Gap, not too wild on the cam. headers or HP manifolds depending on personal preference and hp expectations and finish it off with a good 2.5" mandrel bent exhaust system and low restriction mufflers.

For your stated use, the 400 stroker is definitely the way to go with the biggest advantage of the 5.7 being mileage.

Dave

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 05:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The reason I said the 5.7 was that this car is a vert.. I have never been a fan of any vert being on the race car side..

Want more hp than that stroker? Add a turbo tp the 5.7 and run away from the stroker 400. And that is easy... I am looking at a 67 fast back barracuda for a race car and it will have a turbocharged 5.7 in it.. I just do not understand why people are so afraid of wiring...

have a 512 in my Challenger... would I do it again? nope.. everything from here on will be late model stuff...

yeah put a turbo on a stroker 400 and it will run away from a 5.7. apples to onions there..
easy? it's not EASY to add a turbo to a BB, Let alone fab something up to a new 5.7 or 6.1. And if you keep it injected it becomes more complicated. Not too mention if you want to run a new auto trans or a 5-6 speed you'll have to start cutting up the car. I guess if you own a shop or work for a magazine everything is easy. But for most of us here it is not easy and not a practical build to take on.

A turbo 5.7 is an interesting build but complexity and expense is easily double.

Dave

Posted By: feets

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 05:57 PM

Build a snappy 400 or if you must stroke it, do a 451. Those are common enough that parts are readily available with reasonable prices.

Skip the ported heads. You want to keep the port velocity high for cruising. Forget the guys that say you need 638 cubic inches and a 12.7" lift cam with 836 degres duration.

A set of Edelbrock heads (or similar) would do the trick. Find a cam around .500 lift with moderate duration and you can still use the stock valvetrain. It will make plenty of power for what you need.

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 06:16 PM

So engine builders, what kind of ballpark figure am I looking to have this 400 turned into a 451 from carb to pan with eddy heads?
$4000? $5000? $10,000?

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 07:27 PM

Quote:

Yes build a 408 small block. I like the little package big bang effect. Light weight = better handling better stopping,oh and with my 422 small block 11.1 stock eddies and a hughes flat tappet hyd cam my duster was getting 20 mpg at 70mph. Keisler 5 speed and 3.23 gears helped.

again, to equal the torque and HP of a BB you'll need to spend many more dollars in order to get the numbers out of a SB. It's not going in a little and light A-body. It's going into a heavy E-body.

Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/02/10 07:28 PM

Quote:

So engine builders, what kind of ballpark figure am I looking to have this 400 turned into a 451 from carb to pan with eddy heads?
$4000? $5000? $10,000?

Depends on who is doing the work and how much stuff you can buy used. I think they sell complete 500ci for around 5k. So if you have some of the parts and can do some of your own work I don't see why you can't do it for under 4k.

Posted By: Twostick

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/03/10 03:34 AM

A 4.15 stroke kit with the Chev rod journal size should be the easiest stroker to build at 496 cube. There should be no block grinding required and you can spec a piston that will live a long happy life on the street. With OOTB E-heads,9:1 compression, it's an easy 600 ft/lb torque on 87 reg with a mild cam that won't need big gears, hi stall converter, etc.

An 833 4spd and a 2.94 or a 3.23 would be just the ticket with all that torque on hand from idle to the end.

Kevin

Posted By: MN-ScatPack

Re: Which would you do? Stroker vs. 5.7 hemi? - 12/04/10 04:42 AM

Thanks twostick.