Moparts
Engine build advice
Posted By: bobs66440
Engine build advice - 11/08/10 01:00 AM
Looks like I'm going to have to replace/rebuild my tired, oil-thirsty 440.
Option A: Have the bottom end redone locally (and have them put in a hotter-than-stock cam) and put on a set of those near-stock cast iron Aero heads. I want to re-use the dual-quad setup I have and put on a pair of HP exhaust manifolds I have. This would run me probably about $2500-$3000. or so.
Option B: Get a remanufactured long block from this place...
http://www.rebuilt-engine-blocks.com/engines/Automobile_Engine_MOP_440LB_CHRYSLER.html...ask for a mild performance upgrade, throw my stuff on it and call it a day for about a grand less.
I would love to have a 600hp beast, but the car and my wallet aren't up to it. At this point, I am just looking for a reliable driver...
Any opinions on which might be the best option?
Thanks.
Also, what would be a good cam grind to get a nice, lopey-ish idle but good drivability.
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 01:12 AM
forget the Aero (or any other) iron heads & get some alum 440sources' stealth heads possibly from someone here on the board to check them out. KB pistons
Posted By: Mopar_Country
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 01:23 AM
Winter is coming, plenty of time for a rebuild. You are going to spend 2000.00 and still won't know for sure what you got. Pull the engine and rebuild, do a little research for machining, parts etc and have at it.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 02:44 AM
Quote:
Winter is coming, plenty of time for a rebuild. You are going to spend 2000.00 and still won't know for sure what you got. Pull the engine and rebuild, do a little research for machining, parts etc and have at it.
I tend to agree. If there are any issues, I can just drive the car there. I suppose the problem would be to find a shop that's competent at Mopars...Chevy savvy shops are plentiful around here. Anyone have a suggestion in the NY Tri-State area??
Posted By: superbyrd
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 03:59 AM
as it seems with your post,with you (and most everybody else) pricey,and consequently un-needed aluminum heads are not in the budget. the aero heads will work great with the combo you are looking to assemble,comp XE268 is a great cam,and any number of manufactures can supply a set of cast pistons to more than suffice. it's amazing the "advice" you can get on here when others are spending your money.......
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 04:22 AM
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 04:29 AM
Quote:
it's amazing the "advice" you can get on here when others are spending your money.
Byrd I think he's capable of sorting thru the "advice" he will recieve here & make an informed decision which would include checking how close the Aero and stealth heads are to each other, plus the closed chambers plus better flow plus losing weight plus Aero has quality control issues (on occaision). We are not on here to critisize other peoples' "advise" but to offer "advise" and then let the OP sort thru it & make the best possible plan.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 04:40 AM
Don't waste your money on the areo heads, you can get a $250 valve job on the heads you have and get the same results as the aeroheads. Pay attention to the shortblock rebuild, don't let them put low compression pistons in it which is what you would end up with that online link or if you went to a so called chevy savy shop.
Posted By: superbyrd
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 04:57 AM
i appoligize rapidrobert. my mistake. i goofed up,i thought i read the OP,the words "just a reliable driver", "budjet" "not in the wallet",etc. i'm sorry,by all means,to the original poster, since the 440source aluminum heads are so close to the aeros ($499 pair compared to $1000 pair,but hey,what do i know about "so close"lol) for just a "basic,reliable rebuild" yes,you really need those aluminum heads,etc.
seriously though, i agree with johnrr,if you can re-use your heads,and get by with just a valve job,then that would be the cheapest route. but if they need alot more work,the aeros would come in under the price of re-doing the originals.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 05:02 AM
Quote:
but if they need alot more work,the aeros would come in under the price of re-doing the originals.
Till you add in shipping , possible core charge and having the less than stellar valve job corrected ...
Posted By: HP Engines
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 05:36 AM
I would be careful with one of those online deals
unless its a known and reputable shop.
Comp Cams extreme energy hyd. platform would be
ideal for your applic.
BTW if your close to N.C. I run a Mopar savvy
engine shop.
www.HPENGINES.NET GOOD LUCK with yur build
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 06:24 AM
If he is in the NE, Dwayne Porter can't be all that far away...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 06:28 AM
Quote:
If he is in the NE, Dwayne Porter can't be all that far away...
Not that close ,OP is in the NY , NJ, PENN area , that's tri state , Dwayne is at least 300 miles away .
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 11:29 AM
Wow! Thanks for all the replies! A lot of good info. I never thought of just re-doing the existing heads...don't know why
but that sounds like the best option. There's a shop not too far from me I heard of that builds Hemis among others, maybe I'll drive it over to him and see what he says.
Thanks guys
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 12:07 PM
I don't know your mechanical abilities, but pulling an engine is pretty simple to do yourself, if you're talking about driving the car over, dropping it off, and having them call you when it's done...that's contradicting your budget requirements.
not to mention, you don't really know what you're getting.
If you're on a true budget, I would go for a stock-ish rebuild with good pistons that get you zero deck for some decent compression. keep everything else "stock" except for the bump stick.
put it all together yourself, and save some money.
if i wanted a stock-ish build, this is what I would do:
polish/turn the crank
resize the rods
punch the block .030 over, if needed
have the decks squared/trued up
have hte mains align checked and honed if need correction
valve job on YOUR heads (not someone elses "stock heads" by mail-order)
new cam/lifters (you wanted to bump up over stock a bit)
new timing chain
new harmonic dampner
have the assembly balanced
take your time, read up on some books, ask lots of questions here, and put it together yourself.
I'm thinking you could get a solid 400-425 hp from that 440 for around $3,000 if you do a lot of it yourself.
if you drive it to a shop and drop it off...double that, and still only have a "bone stock rebuild" with a much longer wait.
Posted By: 70Cuda383
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 12:09 PM
By the way, the first engine I ever built is my 383 stroked to 438, aluminum headed, 535 lbs of torque, 505 hp beast thats in my dakota.
I got the confidence to do this by myself by reading a few Mopar rebuild books, and asking lots of questions on here...and dare I say...it was actually pretty easy to do, just ask lots of questions as you go!
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 12:58 PM
Quote:
Winter is coming, plenty of time for a rebuild. You are going to spend 2000.00 and still won't know for sure what you got. Pull the engine and rebuild, do a little research for machining, parts etc and have at it.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 01:14 PM
Quote:
I don't know your mechanical abilities, but pulling an engine is pretty simple to do yourself, if you're talking about driving the car over, dropping it off, and having them call you when it's done...that's contradicting your budget requirements.
not to mention, you don't really know what you're getting.
If you're on a true budget, I would go for a stock-ish rebuild with good pistons that get you zero deck for some decent compression. keep everything else "stock" except for the bump stick.
put it all together yourself, and save some money.
if i wanted a stock-ish build, this is what I would do:
polish/turn the crank
resize the rods
punch the block .030 over, if needed
have the decks squared/trued up
have hte mains align checked and honed if need correction
valve job on YOUR heads (not someone elses "stock heads" by mail-order)
new cam/lifters (you wanted to bump up over stock a bit)
new timing chain
new harmonic dampner
have the assembly balanced
take your time, read up on some books, ask lots of questions here, and put it together yourself.
I'm thinking you could get a solid 400-425 hp from that 440 for around $3,000 if you do a lot of it yourself.
if you drive it to a shop and drop it off...double that, and still only have a "bone stock rebuild" with a much longer wait.
Man if he's looking for budget build, he doesn't need all that block work you mentioned.
Crank is OK also if the engine bearings look OK.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Engine build advice - 11/08/10 01:51 PM
Quote:
I don't know your mechanical abilities, but pulling an engine is pretty simple to do yourself, if you're talking about driving the car over, dropping it off, and having them call you when it's done...that's contradicting your budget requirements.
I had planned on driving it over to chat with him about it...so he could get a visual. Then I would would pull the engine, run it over to him and let him do the work. I would have him put the cam in and install the heads and probably the oil pan, but I would put on the intake and all the accessories, etc. and re-install it.
As far as machine work goes, I will probably rely on him to tell me what it needs to make it a reliable engine.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Engine build advice - 11/24/10 12:55 PM
Well, it looks like it's going to be a rebuild. I plan on building it with as much power and reliability as I can afford. It's stock now but very tired and using a lot of oil. It's going to be a low budget build (hopefully under $3500.) I have stock heads and plan on going through them, but would like some port work (suggestions?) to help them breathe better due to the dual quad I am currently running. The cam a little lumpy but not crazy. The bottom end will remain stock with new rings/bearings etc...maybe some decent pistons (suggestions?). I am putting on factory HP exhaust manifolds. The r&p is 3.55. The tire size is 245/60x14. 4 speed. It's going to be primarily a street cruiser...but healthy sounding/running. I have this cam already. Opinions?
I would like to get 400+hp and 500+ tq. out of it. Is this realistic? Thanks!
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Engine build advice - 11/24/10 02:24 PM
That's not much of a cam. I'd probably go a little bigger
Posted By: 68CoronetRT
Re: Engine build advice - 11/24/10 09:27 PM
Quote:
That's not much of a cam. I'd probably go a little bigger
X2
That may be smaller than a stock HP cam? You'll get a dead smooth idle out of that.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/24/10 11:16 PM
On the port work, a shop that really knows Mopar iron heads can make improvements without spending a lot of time and money. Muscle Motors has offered a good mildly worked iron head.
However if you do the math, I think you'll find that if you go beyond a basic rebuild and good valve job on stock heads the cost comes close to or exceeds new Edelbrock or 440 source Al heads.
Rebuild stock heads plus a decent cam (more cam than what you posted) sound like the best plan to get what you are after and stay on budget.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Engine build advice - 11/25/10 09:46 AM
I noticed this kit on summit a few days ago I had never seen before. Not really sure about the pistons, they seem to have a quench pad on one side and a good sized relief on the other side, and the compression height seems like it would build decent compression for a street engine. I figured I'd post the link up and see what other members thought about them because I wanted some opinions on them myself.
800 seems like a good price to me for a kit with forged pistons, they may be heavier and may not be the best, but they seem good for a budget build.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-CSMHP816-300/?rtype=10
Posted By: 602heavy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 03:31 AM
Maybe toss that cam over the garden wall.............seat to seat duration is a whopping 288/298 (112 lsa) , overlap @ seat to seat is around 69 degrees , the MP .474 is around 238/238 @ .050 with seat to seat around 60* , will make more power along with better idle , .050 numbers are not always what you should be looking @ when deciding on a cam.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 03:51 AM
The kit add didn't say much about the pistons. Compression height, dome volume ect. Generally a dome piston in a 440 will produce too much compession for pump gas. Getting quench to work on open chamber heads requires a quench pad piston like a KB which is different from a dome. It also requires machining the pad and/or each chamber of the head to establish the desired clearance of about .040". Its quite time consuming.
For a budget build with open chamber heads, a flat top picked to give 9.0 - 9.5 CR is a better choice. Cast hypereutetic (Keith Black) should work fine.
If you want quench, its a lot easier (and cheaper I believe) to use closed chamber aluminum heads and a flat top piston set at zero deck. The typical .040" gasket will set the quench distance.
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 10:26 AM
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 12:01 PM
Depending mostly on cylinder deck height and head volume, that piston looks like it would give about 10:1 compression ratio (bluprint deck and 88cc head). Quench with those is uncertain. 10:1 with iron heads is realy too much for pump gas.
Posted By: BSB67
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 02:17 PM
The L-2295F is a bit of an odd carrot for what is deemed a practical pump gas build today. No quench with the 2.03" CH, but puts the CR on the sunny side of 10.0:1.
If you put 92 cc heads on it, fat enough gasket, minimal or no deck cutting and the right cam, I'm sure you could make it work.
Posted By: bobs66440
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 02:51 PM
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 03:14 PM
For the piston with iron heads, something like the KB237 would be in the ballpark. Compression should be in lower 9's depending on the rest of the setup. Below is from Mancini. This would also work well with aluminum heads if you upgrade later.
440 - 88cc / 9.5 to 1 (Set of 8)
We stock STD. / .030 over, all other sizes need to be special ordered
SPECIFICATIONS Bore: 4.32 Rod Length: 6.768 Pin Diameter: 1.094
Stroke: 3.75 Comp. Ht: 2.067
Crank-to-Deck Clearance: 10.725 Weight Piston / Pin: 770 / 191
NOTES (HYPER) Zero deck clearance can be achieved. Best combination with closed chamber heads, if compression ratio works out for your conbination.
$329.95
KB237
SIZE: STD..20.30.40.60
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 03:17 PM
The second cam should be in the ballpark and can work with cost effective stock rocker gear. The first is probably too much and really needs adjustable rockers ($ for decent/reliable ones).
Posted By: 602heavy
Re: Engine build advice - 11/26/10 06:03 PM
Hoe about this one...........
Lunati Voodoo
262/268. advertised
220/226 @ .050"
112 lobe sep/108 icl.
41 degrees O/L @ seat to seat.
Those voodoo cams are possibly the best off the shelf grinds out there in my opinion , or should we say those Harold Brookshire cams.....
Summit part # 60302.
Where are you in the tri area.?Any decent shop will have a waiting list to "get er done"What are your peformance goals?Do NOT short change the build,if what you want is not in the budget,concider saving up and do it right the FIRST TIME 
