Any A&A Hemi cross ram users ?

A&A's cross ram will fit under your hood, it is a faithful reproduction of the originals. The Mopar Performance version with the bolt on lid is not the same and is taller causing hood amd firewall clearance issues with allot of cars.

As far as performance they've come a long way since the first cross rams were cast, pretty much any modern single plane dual 4 intake will out perform them all things being equal. It also depends allot on your engine and car combo, you can loose torque going from a dual plane, or just going from a shorter single plane to a taller one, you need to match all of the componants to get the most of whichever intake you choose.

thanks guys,
you are givin me the advice I expected to get.
I do not think that all things being equal I can get the same power level with a 60´s style cross ram than with a modern (Barton high rise) intake.

i am just wondering if I can get the same power level with the cross ram with some internal changes.
I have upped the comp. from 10.5:1 to 11:1 and in the old version i used a solid cam and now there is somewhat bigger solid roller.
Question is what intake can handle it and still fits under the hood...

My car (´69 Charger) is a street car.
i always hated the six pack scoop I had to use with the Barton intake.
The car went 11,5´s with that setup and that or better is my goal now also.

What was the HP difference with the Stage 5 ,also what carbs were you using and were they set up progressive or both opening at the same time ?

The hp difference was 40.
with the Barton intake there was a 1100 dominator and with the StageV there were 750 holleys and 800 Edelbrocks. both opening the same time. There was only a couple hp difference between the holleys and the edelbrocks.
With the holleys the fuel curve was significantly better in the dyno...

Also a bit confusing to us was that the peak power was with the Barton intake at 6800 and with the stageV at 6100 remembering that there is now a roller cam which should give it´s peak power way higher ??

Is the motor in the car ?

No, not before I am satisfied with it...

...and the car was recently painted and not yet completely assembled.

You are partly right i have to admit.
I may not notice those 40 hps in street and I do not race. i only go to strip to have some fun.

The loss of hp & trq was throughout the whole rpm range though and that I might feel and notice.

The cam was ordered from Barton (Cam Motion) to make more power not less. Ok, Barton propably would have known that when I change to that StageV intake that the power will not be what he suggested in the first place...i did not know either then that i am going to go this without scoop route....

Might be that i do not meet my goals with this setup but i just would not like to give up without trying...

What are your goals ? 660HP is nothing to sneeze at , you'll have a hard time harnessing that on street tires and remember there will always be someone faster.

What did you tell Barton you were going to use for an intake and carb ?

I don´t recall we were talking about intakes with Barton when i ordered the cam so he propably thought that his intake will be used.

My goals ?
beat that 701hp that the engine made before.
Beat my 11,5 at the quarter.(it was with MH´s).
Go as fast as possible keeping the car really streetable, cruisable, etc.
Now, with Gear Vendors overdrive i hope it to be bearable in the highways too - little better mileage and less noice...

yes, there are and surely will be a couple faster guys than me.
Jyrki (is he still active here ?) with his double turbo Vip is in the 7´s in the street D class.
I guess I don´t beat him anytime soon...

I think you should evaluate the whole package.
First, if that Crossram fits under the hood I'm not so sure you will be able to run any type of air cleaner or velocity stack without compromising airflow and turbulence into the carbs.
660HP should put your heavy Charger into the 10's with suitable convertor, tires, suspension and gears.
I think the crossram looks cool but I'm not even sure it will eclipse the Stage V in performance.

Sheldon

Exactly, it's the combo that needs to be examined. Afterall consider that the same Hemi engine pictured below (stock appearing inline intake, etc.) propels a stock appearing 69 Road Runner wearing bias ply Redline tires into the 9's at nearly 140mph, it's his well matched total combo that gets it there, not just one componant.

Full Story On Dudeks Hemi Here

JohnRR:
the combo was:
new mopar hemi block
mopar 4.125 crank
barton rods
JE 10.5:1 pistons
Barton ported heads
2.25/1.94 valves
Cam motion 262/264 .580/.560 mech.cam
Barton singleplane intake
1100 Dominator

With that Barton dynoed it at 701hp 622trq.
I drove it a couple thou miles and that 11.5/122 1/4 and then broke it....to this day noone is 100% sure what happened first - something broked or overrevved (there is a limiter) or what but a couple broken valves -> two pistons broken -> heads hurt...

Well, heads went back to Barton -> came back like new, excellent work.
new CP pistons 11:1
When it was "freshened" anyway I asked Barton to suggest me also a formula to more power ie. new cam.
New cam Cam motion roller is 256/260 .670/.648

Then i got the idea of no more scoop and here we are.Jyrki suggested me to go to dyno with that Barton intake to get the basic numbers of what the engine is actually capable to.
might do that the next time, but i would also like to have with me intake that I am going to use !
thats why I am asking about possible user comments about those cross rams to evaluete or even guess if I can use one !!

Sheldon:
You are absolutely right.
Barton told me in the first place that 10´s will come if my combo is otherwise figured out.
but, my main goal never was and stii isn´t only in the 1/4 mile. The car is really heavy with heavy duty suspension - nearer road race than dragstrip - this is not and never will be a full race car.

SottSmith:
Been twice visiting "you guys".
Once in carlisle and the last time we attained the Mopar nats. Saw Dudek and his car there and drooled all over it....
I have a whole lot of respect towards him (and several other fast guys too...who hasn´t ?).
I guess that those dudek numbers haven´t come easy or cheap ?
he´s done a whole lot of work to get there.
I am just starting my way to ehhh somewhere..

that´s why I am asking help and read very carefully all your advice !

one more thing we have tried.
We made our own intake.
took measurements of a Hogan cross ram and scaled it down.It worked and didn´t.came to a conclusion that making your own intake is not that easy...

First the numbers:
StageV was 662hp at 6300
574trq at 5300

Our own intake was 676hp at 6100
630trq at 4500

our own intake made more torq than the Barton intake !
those numbers where not what we hoped for.
We (ofcourse) hoped more hp and did not even expect to get that high trq numbers.
I would have used that intake to atleast drive the car one season to see how it actually works in the streets (and maybe in the quarter) but there were other issues.
That intake couldn´t distribute the fuel evenly.
it was near lean on some cylinders while fouling some plugs....
with more (how much ?) work and dyno time (how much ?) we guess it could be made to work but would it work properly ever is anyones guess.

to me it just told that in the engine there is potential with right intake !
Could it be the A&A cross ram ?????

If you have hood clearance problems why not space the K memeber down a bit.Dave

i may have to do it for that cross ram to get aircleaner on and enough space for it.
that Barton intake is HIGHrise.
would mean that I´d have to lower the k-member 3"-4" -> no oil pan clearance -> undoable...

Intake

Heads

Pic

Did you dyno the engine when you received it to confirm Barton's numbers and get your own baseline? No 2 dynos will read the same , especially half way around the world .

Mopar Grandpa:
Astonishing !
just can´t find better word (my limited English) to describe your car.
Beautiful color - nearly same as mine
I think I have more space in my B-body for the engine.
Could you tell me anything else about your engine - size, cam, carbs...

JohnRR:
No, now regretting it.
I do not think that they cheated or anything but did they use spacers under the carb, how good dyno headers they have and such little things might mean some hp difference ?

Just heard from another Finnish guy that he got a 572" Hemi from Barton and it went to the same Finnish dyno I have used. The difference was something like 10 hp´s ie. nothing...

If loss of torque is the issue, would Vanke mod 2x4 dual plane that's gasket matched make more torque than the Stage 5??

Thanks for the info.
our engines are quite different.
Mine is supposed to be streetable while yours is as true street engine as can be making over 500 hp.
must be a blast to drive...

And yes, i have contacted Rick to ask some questions from him too. seems very easy to speak to.
I also understand that his parts are top quality.
Can you confirm this ?

Yes, Rick doesn't sell or produce cheaply built/manufactured products. He also re-freshened the 727 in my Barracuda and did a great job. As far as I'm concerned he is one of the best and honest men around. I've known him for a number of years and he's a stand up gentleman.

Not only does his company produce many of the parts for his street and racing transmissions but anytime you go in his facility you'll find him wrenching on a build.

Rick won't steer you wrong, very good guy and very knowledgable too.

Your engine is very close to mine. Mine is a 472 with 11-1 CP pistons as well. I started out with a Stage V intake and a 620 lift solid. Even with 3.23 gears it still cooked pretty hard but I detuned it with a stock intake (so I could run the stock aircleaner) and a little 560 lift solid. It pretty nuts now with the little tires on it and it idles like a stock 318.
I'm not sure but I think distribution is also a problem with the factory style crossrams. Sorry but te Stage V really seems to be the winner in your case.

Sheldon

also, won't the a a intake have to be cut apart and rewelded to make flow changes? that what they did on the orginals and that can't be cheap! dave