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2004 Neon Front End Vibration ****Update****

Posted By: DUFFMAN

2004 Neon Front End Vibration ****Update**** - 10/21/10 02:04 AM

I'm ordered all 4 tie rod ends with the intention of installing them but I'm not 100% convinced that they are what is causing my problem.

I have a 2004 Neon SXT with 116k miles. I have a nasty vibration from around 65 to 75 mph, were it is at it's worst magnitude changes. It is not dependant on the drivetrain, it vibrates the same under acceleration, deceleration, with the clutch in or reguardless of what gear it's in (not RPM dependant). It also doesn't change in a right hand or left hand curve.

To make things more confusing, there is a load "clunk" from the front right when making a left turn like something is loose, yet when I jack up the right front everything seems solid, and I can't move the wheel in any direction.

Withing the last 2 weeks I've replaced both CV axles and the sway bar bushings. I also rotated the tires to rule that out and the lower, rear control arm bushings were replaced in January.

Any ideas what my problem is?
Posted By: dangina

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 02:22 AM

not sure on the other issue but usually on the neons the clunk you hear when you turn into a corner is from a worn out shock
Posted By: ahy

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 03:11 AM

The best way I know to diagnose tie rods is to look visually for movement. A couple of ways to do this.

Run it up on ramps and get a helper to move the steering wheel left and right. If the tie rod ends are worn you can usually see movement and/or feel it by placing your hand on the end.

Or jack it up, place on stands and pull the wheels. Put a few lug nuts back on with a stack of washers to clamp down the rotor. Tug the rotor left and right and again check for movement at the tie rod ends.

Rotating tires (kinda) rules out balance or a bent wheel... although all 4 could be out of balance. If its not the tie rod ends, visually inspect the LCA bushings for tears and deterioration.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 03:29 AM

I've already checked for tie rod end movement a few different times. It looks like the right inner is bad, but it might be the rack moving because the steering wheel lock is kind of sloppy. But, even if it is a tie rod end it doesn't explain the clunk.

I do have a set of PT wheels and tires I can try to rule out a wheel/tire issue. But again that doesn't explain the clunk noise.

A bad strut seems possible. Maybe it's the right tire bouncing while the left is dampening fine creating a vibration in the steering wheel? Hmmm....I could have someone follow me on the right on the highway and tell me if they can see any wheel hop in the front tire when it acts up.

The funny/interesting thing is that my buddie's 2000 Neon does the same thing, just not as bad as mine. I'm not sure he has the clunk though.
Posted By: ahy

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 03:46 AM

For tie rod ends, the "wheels on ramp with helper" method is best. It doesn't depend on the lock. Anyhow, if one is bad they both need replaced. If the struts are worn so are the strut mounts... the clunk could be the mounts themselves (shot). Sometimes the mounts fail before the struts. Test? best I know is to jack it up and check for movement at the top of the strut or roughness while turning.

I've replaced mounts only on a '98 Neon. Once in the front due to poor quality mounts installed with new struts. Once in the rear due to failure after backing into a ditch (daughter).

5 ish year on the front mounts and 2 ish years on the rear. It worked fine but now it does need struts also...
Posted By: therocks

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 11:19 AM

Seems like the lower control arm bushing might be bad.The large rear ones rip from the steel mount.Jack up car and see if the A arm is touching the frame.Thats a sure sign the bushing is ripped.Its a pretty common problem.I replaced both sides on the wifes PT a few months ago.Rocky
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 02:54 PM

Both rear LCA bushings were replaced in January because the driver's side one was ripped. I can't see if the front ones are bad since the are not visible with the LCA installed.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 03:00 PM

Quote:

If the struts are worn so are the strut mounts... the clunk could be the mounts themselves (shot). Sometimes the mounts fail before the struts. Test? best I know is to jack it up and check for movement at the top of the strut or roughness while turning.




I've had it jacked up several times and can't get anything to move. There is no roughness when turning just a clunk noise and only in a left turn, so it's happening when the right is loaded which would make sense for the strut mount/bearing plate. Maybe I have to try moving it when it's loaded? But it would have to be loaded with more than just the weight of the car.
Posted By: Todd

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/21/10 05:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If the struts are worn so are the strut mounts... the clunk could be the mounts themselves (shot). Sometimes the mounts fail before the struts. Test? best I know is to jack it up and check for movement at the top of the strut or roughness while turning.




I've had it jacked up several times and can't get anything to move. There is no roughness when turning just a clunk noise and only in a left turn, so it's happening when the right is loaded which would make sense for the strut mount/bearing plate. Maybe I have to try moving it when it's loaded? But it would have to be loaded with more than just the weight of the car.


To check the upper strut bearings turn the wheel and watch the springs. They should rotate smoothly with the strut. If the upper bearing is bad you will see the spring jump around. You can do this with or without the suspension loaded.
Posted By: AARCONV

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 03:31 AM

check the front wheel bearings
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 03:37 AM

I had my wife turn the steering lock to lock and didn't see anything unusual on either side.

Interestingly, I found out that the tires I'm running might be part of a recall. I stopped at a tire dealer tonight and they are going to contact the manufacurer and see what they can do about replacing them. But, that still doesn't explain the clunk noise.

I did notice that the tires are weather checked around the bead, so I should at least get partial credit toward a new set. So I'm crossing my fingers that new rubber will fix the vibration issue.
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 03:41 AM

check for bad or loose motor/trans mount
Posted By: Todd

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 11:26 AM

You havent mentioned anything about the ball joints. They can and will cause a clunk like you mention. First check the pinch bolt in the knuckle make sure it's tight. Seeing that the control arm has been removed before. Next check the grease plug on the bottom of the ball joint. If it has any rust dust in the plug area their going bad.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 02:54 PM

When I replaced the CV axles I pulled the spindles off at the lower ball joints. The both seemed to be in good shape and required the use of a pliers to reposition them to be re-inserted into the spindle. So I think the actual ball and socket are good. I will definetely check the pinch bolt though to make sure I have it tight. Maybe I over looked it putting back together?

I had the vibration issue prior to replacing the axles, thus why I replaced them. The right side one was pretty rough. There wasn't much spring pressure left in the inner, so it was still good to replace it as preventative maintenence.

It's hard to tell if the clunk noise came after the CV axle replacement. I had bad sway bar bushings that I replaced after the CV axles which were making their own clunk noise.

The more I think about it I think the clunk and the vibration are probably 2 seperate issues and not caused by the same problem.
Posted By: In_The_Pink

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 04:58 PM

Quote:

The more I think about it I think the clunk and the vibration are probably 2 seperate issues and not caused by the same problem.




I would agree.

Have you had the tires checked on a spin balancer at a shop? They may be out of balance or you may have lost a wheel weight. Rotating an out of balance tire for another out of balance tire won't detect any problems.

Have you checked the steering rack busing and bolts? On my '97 there is one U-clamp and rubber bushing on the pass. side, and two bolts on the driver's side. My old '94 Intrepid had a clunk and is was due to wrorn rack bushings, so the rack would move slightly at full turns, causing the clunk.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/22/10 05:58 PM

I did check the rack bolts and they are tight. Also this morning I checked the ball joint pinch bolt on the right and it is as tight as I can get it with a 3/8" breaker bar.

I just inspected the upper front motor mount and it is dry rotted a little. It doesn't look really bad but it's questionable enough that it's worth replacing. So once I can get to a parts store I'll pick up a new one.

As for the vibration, I just got back from taking it on the highway again. I noticed something that I never noticed before. The vibration doesn't get really bad until it's been on the highway for awhile. For the first 5 minutes or so the vibration is limited enough that it could just be normal road noise in a small car. Between that and the fact that the vibration is completely speed dependent makes me even more suspisious of the tires.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/23/10 09:08 PM

The vibration issue is solved!

It came down to the simplest solution: tires. I had already rotated the tires a few different ways to try and rule out tires and wheels. No matter how I rotated them the vibration wouldn't go away so I thought I had ruled it out.

A couple of days ago I noticed that all 4 of my tires are weather cracked around the bead. I checked the manufacturer's website and found out my tires are under recall for this exact failure. I'm currently in the process of getting it verified by a dealer so that the tires can be replaced under recall.

Knowing that the tires are defective I decided to swap on a set of wheels/tires I have that came off a PT Cruiser. I wasn't running them because the tires are 8 years old and there isn't much tread left, but for experimental purposes I bolted them on. I got all the way up to 80 mph with no vibration, smooth as silk. So I got my answer. The worst part is that had I not had a second set of wheels and tires to run I would have never been able to diagnose it.

Now I still need to figure the right side clunk. Last night I replaced the upper, front engine mount which didn't help, in fact today even though the clunk sound is from the right it now does it in both left and right hand turns. I picked up a set of swaybar end links and I'm going to replace them. The right side one is still connected, but the bushings look rough and since they're pretty cheap I figured I would start there.
Posted By: Nukechargerboy

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/23/10 10:34 PM

My Intrepid is in the shop for the timing belt and struts. The guy told me the spring was broken, so he ordered the whole shebang. It was making a clunk too.
Posted By: DUFFMAN

Re: 2004 Neon Front End Vibration - 10/24/10 02:04 PM

My springs are definetely not broken. I got a good look at them while checking the strut mounting plates.

I did get the sway bar end links replaced and now it takes an "extreme" case to get a clunk out of it, like turning all the way in one direction while coming out of a driveway. Even when it does clunk now its not as load. So I'm pretty sure the problem is in the sway bar. I noticed when I replaced the bushings that the bar itself is worn bretty good where the bushings ride. SO unless I want to spend the money on a new swaybar I will just have to live with a little noise. I'm just glad it wasn't something more serious.
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