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Mig welding Q&A
Posted By: Commando1
Mig welding Q&A - 09/25/10 09:27 PM
I have one big problem when MIG welding. I use a helmet with an auto-darkening lens. While welding, I can't see the path I'm suppose to take when running a bead. I see the bright glare of the arc but ouside of that it's pitch black. Inevitably I go off track, even short runs. Example:
The only two things that I can think of to improve that would be:
1. Get a lens with a lower rating but I'm not interested in going even more blind
2. Shine more light on the work but seems kinda dumb when the glare of the arc is so damn intense anyway.
Any hints?
I won't be happy until I can do this:
and not this:
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/25/10 10:17 PM
...I read what you said about the blind thing but I take it that your lens is non adjustable so what shade do you have now. If it's like the dark example it appears to be 11 or 12.
Posted By: Neil
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/25/10 10:20 PM
Pic #1 looks like tig and not mig. Mig welds are usually pretty crude looking no matter who's doing it.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/25/10 11:06 PM
I do a LOT of mig welding and know just what you're talking about. Here's my solution ...
1) back your head away further - there is no need to have your face any closer than 18". This will also mean breathing less smoke!
2) when possible, watch the weld more from the open side.
3) set the shade around 10
4) position your hands such that you can run the bead by moving only your wrists or if its a long run position yourself so that you would move parallel to the bead. If you can run a finger or wrist along an edge or surface as a guide that helps too. Go through the whole weld motion first to make sure you're positioned correctly, then do the weld. If you've positioned yourself correctly you should be able to run the bead with your eyes closed - REALLY!
5) spacing the pieces to be welded or bevelling the parts will also give you a line to follow.
6) watch closely - the arc will distort slightly at the joint and give you a path to follow
7) practice, practice, practice !!
Those are tig welds but mig welds by no means have to look crude. In fact, most race cars are migged and the welds are very nice. It just takes the right gas, machine and PRACTICE.
Those photos are taken with camera lenses and I know of no welding shield that will give you that level of visibility for mig.
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/25/10 11:57 PM
Quote:
I do a LOT of mig welding and know just what you're talking about. Here's my solution ...
1) back your head away further - there is no need to have your face any closer than 18". This will also mean breathing less smoke! I use a 2 power magnfirer lens to do just that.You can get them in a few differnent X powers.
2) when possible, watch the weld more from the open side. Yepper!
3) set the shade around 10
4) position your hands such that you can run the bead by moving only your wrists or if its a long run position yourself so that you would move parallel to the bead. If you can run a finger or wrist along an edge or surface as a guide that helps too. Go through the whole weld motion first to make sure you're positioned correctly, then do the weld. If you've positioned yourself correctly you should be able to run the bead with your eyes closed - REALLY! I can eat a samwich and weld overhead. Practice is right on the money!
5) spacing the pieces to be welded or bevelling the parts will also give you a line to follow. You can also mark a line with soapstone.
6) watch closely - the arc will distort slightly at the joint and give you a path to follow
7) practice, practice, practice !! Never enough Practice.
8) Try rolling the tip in small circles, from one peice up to the other peice. Just to tie both together and flow the joint. Or try doing small C's. It should look like a stack of coins layed over.
Those are tig welds but mig welds by no means have to look crude. In fact, most race cars are migged and the welds are very nice. It just takes the right gas, machine and PRACTICE.
Those photos are taken with camera lenses and I know of no welding shield that will give you that level of visibility for mig.
Posted By: QuickSilver
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 12:52 AM
Commando, It sounds like you have to dark of a shading lens. Typically you can run a 9-10 for mig welding only. This process does not produce the high glare that you will get with a tig welding machine. When I was in the fab shop I always used a 10 for mig and switched over to a 12 for tig welding. Dude, PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE! Usually when using the mig welder,I only use it for tack welds and stitching floor pans I add a little motion to my nozzel to help flatten out the weld bead. Either small circles as mentioned above or I use a small digging action slightly down and out and then bringing the nozzel back and letting the weld fill in. By doing this you actually make a bit of a trough and then fill that back up. This is for thicker materials. Thin gauge sheet steel almost works better with a weld and pause type motion and just play around with varying your travel speed to get the results you are after. The best thing I would recommend is to play around and try different techniques and find one that works for your application. Good Luck! JC.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 01:00 AM
You guys are great! That's the best welding advice I have got so far. Thanks.
And you all convinced me to trash my basic helmet for an Adjustable Shade Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet.
Again. MUCH thanks.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 03:03 AM
...Also, are you running a 75/25 mix of Argon/Co2? That will help the puddle lay down a little better than pure Argon. If you are welding from right to left, you might try the ~7 O'clock/7:30 position so you can see the line/gap in front of the weld & a lot of the puddle just behind the weld which ever is needed. Good luck
Posted By: mike s
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 03:44 AM
I also have a terrible time seeing while welding.I have found one thing that helps me.I switched to a helmet with a red tinted lens instead on the black or green tinted ones.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 04:39 AM
Mig or Tig?
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 04:40 AM
Another
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 04:43 AM
That wide of a bead and that much heat ... mig. No need for that wide of a bead with tig. Very nice though!!
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 04:44 AM
Last one...
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 04:46 AM
Last one ... tig.
Posted By: Sunroofcuda
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 05:49 AM
Commando, I shine a bright clamp-on light on my weld area. Standard indoor overhead lighting does not light the weld area nearly enough for me. This helps me immensely. I use .035 wire for my muffler welding & sometimes use a circular motion & pull down. The right amperage & shielding gas make all the difference in the world. I used to plug-into a 15 amp outlet & got crappy welds. Then I ran a new 20 amp circuit & it was like a whole different welder. No more problems anymore. Also, I use an auto dimming helmet.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 08:09 AM
Quote:
Mig or Tig?
...Mig, not as critical with the better quality welding machines. With some of the whimpey 110v mig's it can make a difference. This info was for Commando, assuming he didn't have a High $ rig.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 12:19 PM
Quote:
This info was for Commando, assuming he didn't have a High $ rig.
Just your standard 220V Lincoln.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 01:47 PM
All eyes have different views.
Some need more or less shade, some like green lenses, some orange.
For me, the most clairity was gained by using GLASS lenses that have a highly reflective gold coating on the side facing the weld.
They are more expensive but when you live under the hood and your job depends on the quality you produce, you need the finest supporting equipment.
Try one, compare it to a std weld lense.
There is more clarity with a gold plated glass 12 than a std glass 10.
The quick darkening lenses are nice for tight spots where you cant drop your hood, also when you need exact initial start placement.
However they may not provide optimum viewing. Had several of them so poor performing, was cause for concern with eye protection.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 05:05 PM
All are MIG and done with a Lincoln SP135 machine.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 05:06 PM
Funny you mention that about auto darkening helmets, I find the auto darkening feature absolutely useless since it doesn't go light enough to really see through. The ONLY benefit is the shade adjustment and even that is only useful if you're continually going from say, mig to tig. And if you were doing that regularly then you may as well have two helmets!
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 05:14 PM
...Also with the Gold lens be very careful not to scratch the coating on the front surface. You don't want to use one with even a tiny hole. Just put a good clear lens in front of it. The newer lens now day's may be better than the ones I used 10-20 yrs ago.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 05:35 PM
Agree, two or more helmets is nice and cheaper.
I still nodded head even after using the auto lense for decent amount of time.
Then switch back and forget to nod with regular helmet and see the light.
Heck I nod at the flash of a bulb.
Also for sure about the scratches on the gold plating, inspect regularly.
Posted By: 1Fast340
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 08:50 PM
like has been said above,much easier to make good looking welds doing them spot by spot compared to long beads,just a ton of practice required and getting the welder set up right for what you are doing
also about visibility, i have not yet found why or how but it seams like it depends alot on from what angle and distance you are looking at the weld, 99% of the time i dont have any trouble seeing what im doing,then its that 1% of the times when i just cant see any good at all,gues i have just learnt how to work and how to look thru the autohelmet to be able to see without nowing anything about what is right and wrong.
Posted By: Mofopar
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 10:09 PM
Th only way to get a weld that looks like the first pic is with a TIG and a perfect fitment. If someone can set-up a wire feed machine to look like that - they are weld gods.
I've never used an auto-shade.
Soapstone or scribed lines help a ton.
Extra light doesn't hurt either, but the soapstone shows up brilliantly even with an 11 shade.
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/26/10 10:24 PM
Quote:
The only way to get a weld that looks like the first pic is with a TIG and a perfect fitment. If someone can set-up a wire feed machine to look like that - they are weld gods.
I've never used an auto-shade.
Soapstone or scribed lines help a ton.
Extra light doesn't hurt either, but the soapstone shows up brilliantly even with an 11 shade.
I have a Lincoln SP 155 220V Mig. I use 0.035 wire for 90% of my welding. I can weld on steel just about as good as that pipe in the turntable above. It should look like stacked coins that got knocked over all around without too much undercuts. It can be done. Now my stright line welds are a bit ziggy-zaggy and I have lost some stabilty, but if I can rest my hand or arm on a guide, I do ok. I also hate freehanding pipe as the Arthritis is a bear going around corners in a full "Non-Stop" bead.
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. My weld instructor would kick my *Banned word* around my sholders if I blew a weld. 
He was a ROBOT!!!
Posted By: Mofopar
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 03:02 AM
It should look like stacked coins that got knocked over all around without too much undercuts. It can be done.
Call me crazy but, a semi-automated process like a wire feed MIG welder, is designed to weld continuous beads (obviously it can be used for tacks and short welds too), not stop/start to make the weld appear like it was done with TIG.
It's like those that can't use a TIG well try to make the same bead profile with the MIG cuz its easy to operate.
Just practice with the TIG and leave the MIG for welding the trailer
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 03:28 AM
Soapstone x2.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 05:49 AM
Quote:
Just practice with the TIG and leave the MIG for welding the trailer
Now that was cruel for just us regular guys.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 07:10 AM
Quote:
It should look like stacked coins that got knocked over all around without too much undercuts. It can be done.
Call me crazy but, a semi-automated process like a wire feed MIG welder, is designed to weld continuous beads (obviously it can be used for tacks and short welds too), not stop/start to make the weld appear like it was done with TIG.
...No dimes, whata ya think MIG or TIG?
.jpg "6219139-P7310508(2).jpg")
Quote:
All are MIG and done with a Lincoln SP135 machine.
Not doubting you, however I posted your photos in a chatroom after explaining to a welding buddy of mine how impressed I was with your work with something as simple as a hardware store mini MIG machine when I noticed the photos were named "TIG Stuff".
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 03:08 PM
Quote:
All are MIG and done with a Lincoln SP135 machine.
No way those are Mig , no signs of spatter and as someone mentioned why are they labeled Tig ? Rob I'm surprised ...
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 06:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
All are MIG and done with a Lincoln SP135 machine.
Not doubting you, however I posted your photos in a chatroom after explaining to a welding buddy of mine how impressed I was with your work with something as simple as a hardware store mini MIG machine when I noticed the photos were named "TIG Stuff".
I named them that to be sly...
That's not my work. A friend of mine does that stuff. He is crazy talented with welders, build trophy truck and custom cages, etc. He's ZTfab in this thread. http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30845
He's one of the most helpful guys and has held welding seminars at his shops, free, to help out us guys that don't do it for a living. MIG, TIG whatever you wanted to learn or brush up on, all equipment was available for use.
He did all of the work in the pics with either a Lincoln 110v SP135 or his PowerMig200. I thought it was only the small box.
John, this is what good Mig looks like when you get wire speed, voltage, technique, fitment in sync.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 09:34 PM
Quote:
No way those are Mig , no signs of spatter
Well that's just BS. Spatter is a result of or combination of the gas used, the wire type, the welder setting and the cleanliness of the base metal. Not to mention that an anti-spatter spray will also do the trick. I do a lot of mig with no or very little spatter. I'd rather spend the few extra bucks on a mixed gas than the extra time cleaning spatter.
As for those photos, a proper tig weld is easily identified by a concave or flat puddle whereas a mig weld will most often be convex. As for the "stack of dimes" look, yeah its pretty but its no better than a continuous mig bead.
Posted By: theclutcher
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 09:44 PM
Stanton you are spot on.
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 10:01 PM
Well I do use 75/25, anti-splatter spray and asbestos blankets when needed and only do the tight little circles for the Stacked Dimes look when its highly visible, like under the hood or dash areas.
If I want the quality of all those factory welds on our K-frames then yes I can turn my welder up to D heat range and 8 wire speed and just lay a weld on and it will hold fine.
Going fast puts less heat in the area too.
Well I hope we have answered the OP's question.
Posted By: JeffC
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/27/10 10:11 PM
Quote:
You guys are great! That's the best welding advice I have got so far. Thanks.
And you all convinced me to trash my basic helmet for an Adjustable Shade Auto-Darkening Welding Helmet.
Again. MUCH thanks.
I use a $50 harbor freight auto darkening helmet with adjustable lens, works pretty good for the price.
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 12:49 AM
Nothing wrong with that helmet for the home user/hobbyist. The higher end units look nicer and have a higher quality shell and (where it really counts) a much better headband/hinge mechanism. But the lenses are likely no better.
One more question for the experts here
what pressure do you run the gas at on your mig? Thanks
Posted By: 69RTSE
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 01:49 AM
Quote:
Funny you mention that about auto darkening helmets, I find the auto darkening feature absolutely useless since it doesn't go light enough to really see through...
I bought this auto-darkening welding helmet for $140 and I'm very happy with it. It's not adjustable, but it's perfect for MIG welding. And it lets enough light in to see what your doing before you start welding. I'm really happy with. And its made in America, which was a key selling point for me.
Titan welding helmet
I would like to know also,the place where i got the tank told me 20-25.But that was way to much,the regulator was frosting up,I have it down to 5 at it welds fine.Or my gauge is wrong,it just a cheap one.
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 02:11 AM
I usually run my regulator anywhere from 12-25
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 04:37 AM
About 15. At 20 it may steady the arc a bit in a windy garage but youll use a bit more gas. Above 20 and your wasting money. All you want is a small pocket of inert gas that will not react with the arc. Argon will have a smooth finish. Co2 will alow a lot of heat and flatten the bead. A 75/25 mix is good for most.
That guy that sold you that tank is also the guy that will exchange the empty one, RIGHT? Hummmmm.
Posted By: Grizzly
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 04:57 AM
Quote:
About 15. At 20 it may steady the arc a bit in a windy garage but youll use a bit more gas. Above 20 and your wasting money. All you want is a small pocket of inert gas that will not react with the arc. Argon will have a smooth finish. Co2 will alow a lot of heat and flatten the bead. A 75/25 mix is good for most.
That guy that sold you that tank is also the guy that will exchange the empty one, RIGHT? Hummmmm.
Too much pressure will also quench the weld. (bad thing)
Posted By: Stanton
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 05:03 AM
I use a fume extractor and it can suck the sheilding gas away if I get it too close to the work. I run 30 cfm and its fine. Since most of my welding is generating good revenue I'm not concerned whether I could have welded another 15 minutes on the tank if I'd drop the pressure.
Posted By: Commando1
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 01:23 PM
Quote:
Nothing wrong with that helmet for the home user/hobbyist. The higher end units look nicer and have a higher quality shell and (where it really counts) a much better headband/hinge mechanism. But the lenses are likely no better.
Interesting. I am going HF today anyway so that looks like a done deal, too.
Harbor Freight: The company you LOVE to Hate. 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 02:00 PM
Quote:
One more question for the experts here what pressure do you run the gas at on your mig? Thanks
The proper gas regulator is a flow meter not a pressure gauge , I'm not sure what the correlation is between CFM and psi , I usually set it at 20cfm.
Posted By: thehemikid
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 06:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
One more question for the experts here what pressure do you run the gas at on your mig? Thanks
The proper gas regulator is a flow meter not a pressure gauge , I'm not sure what the correlation is between CFM and psi , I usually set it at 20cfm.
...I've been away from Boiler tube welding for some time now (retired disability) ~ 11 yrs, & seam's like I ran about 18 on the flow meter.
Posted By: Sport440
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/28/10 11:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with that helmet for the home user/hobbyist. The higher end units look nicer and have a higher quality shell and (where it really counts) a much better headband/hinge mechanism. But the lenses are likely no better.
Interesting. I am going HF today anyway so that looks like a done deal, too.
Harbor Freight: The company you LOVE to Hate.
Ive got one of the HF $ 49.00 adjustible lens helmet and it just doesnt get dark enough at its highest setting 12. After a few seconds of welding the bright light blinds me like in your dark welding pic.
Im back with a old broken strap helmit now, it works much better. The work looks like your lighter welding pic.
Maybe I got a bad one, but I got another buddy who has a adjustible and he has the same complaint. I dont know if he got his from Harbor freight or not, But right now neither one of us will use those adjustible helmets.
IMO, you have to get the expensive ones for them to work right but I could be wrong. Like I said, maybe I got a bad one, or maybe the Chinese have fixed the problems with those helmets. mike
Posted By: BSharp
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/29/10 04:39 PM
If I can toss in a question; what about mig welding on a car with modern electronics? Seems it would make sense to keep the ground close to the welding point, but what else should one do/not do?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/29/10 04:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with that helmet for the home user/hobbyist. The higher end units look nicer and have a higher quality shell and (where it really counts) a much better headband/hinge mechanism. But the lenses are likely no better.
Interesting. I am going HF today anyway so that looks like a done deal, too.
Harbor Freight: The company you LOVE to Hate.
Ive got one of the HF $ 49.00 adjustible lens helmet and it just doesnt get dark enough at its highest setting 12. After a few seconds of welding the bright light blinds me like in your dark welding pic.
Im back with a old broken strap helmit now, it works much better. The work looks like your lighter welding pic.
Maybe I got a bad one, but I got another buddy who has a adjustible and he has the same complaint. I dont know if he got his from Harbor freight or not, But right now neither one of us will use those adjustible helmets.
IMO, you have to get the expensive ones for them to work right but I could be wrong. Like I said, maybe I got a bad one, or maybe the Chinese have fixed the problems with those helmets. mike
You get what you pay for, I would think your vision is worth more than 49 bucks.
Posted By: Dave_J
Re: Mig welding Q&A - 09/29/10 08:38 PM
Just my opinion. You should always have the ground clamp as close to your weld area as possable. But on any vechile you need to disco the battery. Thats about all you can do. I have heard of people removing the ECM/Computers. If your going to weld anywhere within 4 feet of the ECM, I'd remove it for sure.