Moparts

Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do?

Posted By: BigDaddy440

Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:33 AM


69 B body.

Front of car is on jack stands on the frame. Wheels off. K-member supported by floor jack for safety.

I've:

Removed the pins behind the torsion bars that are located in the cross-member.

Backed out the bolts in the lower control arms that control ride height. I believe this relieves tension of the torsion bars.

Bought a torsion bar tool, attached it to one of the cars and have hammered toward the rear of the car.

It didn't budge, so I wanted to check with you guys to see if I'm doing something wrong.

The front suspension should be hanging down for torsion bar removal, correct?

Tips? Suggestions? Bigger hammer?

-dan
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:39 AM

Might help to disconnect the shock.. Sometimes the shocks limit travel of the LCA & there is still tension on the bar... Are the anchors completely floppy loose? FWIW I've never used the tool you hammer on, I remove the LCA nut & use a prybar between the LCA & the K member to shove the LCA rearward, the wiggle the LCA forward & the bar pretty much falls out...
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:39 AM

There are a few other things to try. Loosen the LCA pivot pin nut and loosen the pin in the k-member. This might take tension on the hexes.

You can also remove the pivot pin nut and the strut rod nut and bushing. Knock the LCA rearward with the torsion bar. Then hold the bar and knock the LCA off of it.

PB Blaster and other rust breakers can also help.

Lastly, if you are not going to reuse the bars, cut them in half.........
Posted By: BigDaddy440

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:46 AM


Thanks for the quick replies!

The shocks are undone so the suspension hangs freely.

I'll try what has been suggested. This is my first time removing entire suspension, thanks.

-dan
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:48 AM

Where in California are you?
Posted By: Jim_Lusk

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 06:59 AM

Quote:

Where in California are you?



Yeah, I didn't even look to see you were here in California. I'm in Fresno and I am about to announce that I will rebuild control arms for those who don't have the tools/expertise (well, I guess I just announce it......).
Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 07:19 AM

Quote:

Where in California are you?



Besides Modesto & Fresno, there are members further south who have seen a Mopar front end or two...
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 07:49 AM

What brand or make of tool do you have ? ... there are some out there that are simply JUNK.

I saw one on eBay that was made with what appeared to be muffler-clamps !
Posted By: BigDaddy440

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 08:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Where in California are you?



Yeah, I didn't even look to see you were here in California. I'm in Fresno and I am about to announce that I will rebuild control arms for those who don't have the tools/expertise (well, I guess I just announce it......).



I'm in Modesto.....Randy, we've spoken before at various events.

I can turn a wrench ok, I've just never removed torsion bars before, so I thought I'd ask questions before I wasted time, broke something, or hurt myself.

Jim, I'm pulling the K-member, and I'm rebuilding the entire front and rear suspension on the car. I'm currently in the tear down phase. I should have the K-member and control arms out this weekend. Maybe I could call you for some assistance in putting things together after I get the K-Frame & Control Arms powder coated / painted etc.

The tool seems well built. Its basically a metal handle with a clamping system that uses 7/16 bolts....its pretty sturdy.

Thanks guys.
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 08:21 AM

7/16 U bolts ?
Posted By: BigDaddy440

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 08:44 AM


Sorry, they're 3/8" bolts and no, its not a ubolt design.

This is it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/mopar-tor...sQ5fAccessories
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 08:48 AM

Quote:


Sorry, they're 3/8" bolts and no, its not a ubolt design.

This is it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/mopar-tor...sQ5fAccessories

bought that tool broke it in 1/2 started making mine..

Attached picture 6214296-4517473-100_1551.jpg
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 08:51 AM

nutter pic solid hardned steel, cnc cut

Attached picture 6214297-4517480-100_1553.jpg
Posted By: dOOc

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 09:33 AM

Hey Guyz .. these are TINKERtools compared to the Miller tool. That one uses FOUR large bolts and probably has 5-times the clamping area.
Posted By: John426

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 12:58 PM

Once you remove the "tension" on the torsion bars they tend to fall right out.

OK, so what keeps tension on the torsion bar? You've already released the torsion bar adjuster, so whats left? Someone suggested loosening the lower control arm pivot nut and prying the LCA a bit from the K-frame, this helps!!

Another spot of possible tension is the brake strut rod. These are designed to "triangulate" the lower control arm and can place a bunch of tension on the torsion bar in the lower control arm torsion bar socket. Unscrew the forward and rear nuts on the brake strut rod to relax the tension on the brake strut rod and try the prying between the lower control arm and K-frame again.

I think you have already done this, but remove the upper control arm to allow the LCA to go full droop. (either unbolt the UCA from the body at the cam bolts or unscrew the upper ball joint).

Once the LCA is totally free and "swinging in the breeze" as it where, the torsion bar should just about fall out. It is still possible that there is a bit of corrosion in the LCA socket that is holding it in, so try soaking the socket with your rust busting solution of choice.

A final solution to remove the front end when the torsion bars are stubborn and simply refuse to budge: drop the k-frame with the torsion bars still in and push the entire k-frame assembly forward. The rear of the torsion bars will pull forward out of the crossmember socket! You still need to wrestle them out of the LCA somehow, but at least it is out of the car and you can take it apart and wrestle with them on the workbench!!

Hope that helps, I've done about 100 (maybe more?) Mopar front ends over the years and I've stopped using a torsion bar removal tool - just don't need it. If I was changing a torsion bar in the car and the engine was still in, I could see the need on a very stubborn bar. Since the goal (mostly these days) is a complete removal for a rebuild I just pull the stuck ones forward and deal with them out of the car.

Last tip: When pulling the k-frame forward with the torsion bar still in place, remove the k-frame bolts, lower the kframe just enough to clear, place a wood block on the k-frame and tap with a deadblow hammer. Sometimes the hammer isn't even needed, you can just wiggle the k=frame forward on the jack or k-frame stand.

You do have a k-frame stand don't you? (smile!)
Posted By: IMGTX

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 02:22 PM

If the tension is fully released the threaded part the LCA adjustment bolt goes through will move around easily. If not then the T-Bar is still loading the suspension.

If you did not remove the upper control arm bumpers, disconnect the shock, and/or disconnect a ball joint it may not be hanging low enough to release all the tension.

Once the tension is released it should slide out. I have lost count of how many front ends I have done and I have never ever used a T-bar puller tool and never needed it. If the T-bar is sticky I just remove:
1. The nuts on the strut rod,
2. The shock,
3. The large nut on the front of the LCA pivot shaft.
4. I disconnect the Sway bar (if equipped)
5. Disconnect the Lower Ball Joint from the LCA/Steering knuckle.

With everything disconnected I place a prybar between the LCA and the K-frame about where the LCA pivot is and pry it backwards. Out like a champ. IT helps to clean the dirt out of the back of the socket at the transmission crossmember.

If your pulling it all anyway your going to remove that stuff anyway.


Several important notes.
A. The upper ball joints do not look like they are threaded but they are. It is a very shallow wide thread. DO NOT PRESS THEM OUT.
I suggest you remove the upper ball joint from the UCA with it on the car because the car makes a great support tool as your wrenching it out. A good impact goes a long way to get it out easy. I do not suggest heating them as the metal on the UCA is thinner and softer than the Ball joint and it may cause problems later with the ball joint coming loose as the threads loose tension. Don't start them back in with an impact. get them started with a 1/2 or 3/4 ratchet and after they are started run them in with an impact if you need to.
B. On 72 and older B bodies, all E-bodies and A bodies the lower ball joint is integrated with the steering knuckle. On C-bodies, Trucks/Vans and 73 and newer B bodies they may be pressed or bolt in. If the Lower ball joint has 4 flats on it like the upper ball joint it is threaded also. if it is round it is press in.
C. If installing Poly Bushings make sure you have them in hand and check the instructions before you remove the bushing shells in the Control Arms and LCA pivots. Most poly bushings require the re-use of the shells. If you replace the LCA pivots and use poly bushings make sure that you use the original style pivots and not the later replacements that have a bulbous spot just in front of the bushing. Let me know if you need to and I'll find pics.
There are tips as you get into it. so if you have a problem just ask.
Posted By: therocks

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 02:42 PM

My 65 had one that was stuck.Itried for 2 days to get it out.Finally I heated the hex with a propane torch and melted bees wax in the hex.A couple of smacks and it came out.I tried some great commercial penatriting oils and none worked.The stuff I had makes PB blaster look like water.The bees wax worked more than once.Rocky
Posted By: hemigod426

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 03:57 PM

Quote:

Hey Guyz .. these are TINKERtools compared to the Miller tool. That one uses FOUR large bolts and probably has 5-times the clamping area.

yes but that is to big no room with headers, mine works with 2 1/4 inch tube headers on hemi car, does not slip.muck longer for good handle and hammering, i broke the one mancinni sells also
Posted By: srt

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/24/10 04:28 PM

I'm with the school that has not used a tool for removal.
IMGTX's writeup should be refrenced (and saved to tech archive).
One thing I often do once everything is loosened up and lca has been pried back, is to slide the lca and bar forward, and clean the rear hex opening. Amazing how much gravel, sand and rust scale get in there making it dificult to remove. Blow it out with air and the bar will come out.
Posted By: BigDaddy440

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 09/26/10 12:41 AM

Quote:

If the tension is fully released the threaded part the LCA adjustment bolt goes through will move around easily. If not then the T-Bar is still loading the suspension.

If you did not remove the upper control arm bumpers, disconnect the shock, and/or disconnect a ball joint it may not be hanging low enough to release all the tension.

Once the tension is released it should slide out. I have lost count of how many front ends I have done and I have never ever used a T-bar puller tool and never needed it. If the T-bar is sticky I just remove:
1. The nuts on the strut rod,
2. The shock,
3. The large nut on the front of the LCA pivot shaft.
4. I disconnect the Sway bar (if equipped)
5. Disconnect the Lower Ball Joint from the LCA/Steering knuckle.

With everything disconnected I place a prybar between the LCA and the K-frame about where the LCA pivot is and pry it backwards. Out like a champ. IT helps to clean the dirt out of the back of the socket at the transmission crossmember.

If your pulling it all anyway your going to remove that stuff anyway.


Several important notes.
A. The upper ball joints do not look like they are threaded but they are. It is a very shallow wide thread. DO NOT PRESS THEM OUT.
I suggest you remove the upper ball joint from the UCA with it on the car because the car makes a great support tool as your wrenching it out. A good impact goes a long way to get it out easy. I do not suggest heating them as the metal on the UCA is thinner and softer than the Ball joint and it may cause problems later with the ball joint coming loose as the threads loose tension. Don't start them back in with an impact. get them started with a 1/2 or 3/4 ratchet and after they are started run them in with an impact if you need to.
B. On 72 and older B bodies, all E-bodies and A bodies the lower ball joint is integrated with the steering knuckle. On C-bodies, Trucks/Vans and 73 and newer B bodies they may be pressed or bolt in. If the Lower ball joint has 4 flats on it like the upper ball joint it is threaded also. if it is round it is press in.
C. If installing Poly Bushings make sure you have them in hand and check the instructions before you remove the bushing shells in the Control Arms and LCA pivots. Most poly bushings require the re-use of the shells. If you replace the LCA pivots and use poly bushings make sure that you use the original style pivots and not the later replacements that have a bulbous spot just in front of the bushing. Let me know if you need to and I'll find pics.
There are tips as you get into it. so if you have a problem just ask.

\


Thanks to all for helping with suggestions. Instructions like these are great, thank you for taking the time to do the write up.

-dan
Posted By: BigDaddy440

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 10/04/10 03:00 AM


Just wanted to let anyone who cares know that the problem was that I hadn't unbolted the upper A-Arms to allow the suspension all the way down. Once that was done, the torsion bars tapped out (with my tool) very easily.


Thanks to all.

-dan
Posted By: crlush

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 10/04/10 04:01 PM

I've always just unbolt the lower control ARM and give it a couple wacks with a rubber malet and it has always pretty much fallen right out.
Posted By: meepmeep70

Re: Trouble pulling torsion bars....what to do? - 10/04/10 05:06 PM

Quote:


Just wanted to let anyone who cares know that the problem was that I hadn't unbolted the upper A-Arms to allow the suspension all the way down. Once that was done, the torsion bars tapped out (with my tool) very easily.


Thanks to all.

-dan

we all care glad you got them out
© 2024 Moparts Forums