will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull?

will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 08:29 PM

hi

i have a car here that the brakes are giving us fits

it pulls to the right

all brake items have been replaced, the lines blown out, etc

just noticed the rf upper control arm bushing is pretty well worn, + the left front upper control arm bushing has some wear to it.

have any of you any experiance with worn upper control arm bushings making the brakes pull?

btw, it goes down the road straight, + doesnt make any nnoises and turns normally

Posted By: rhad

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 08:32 PM

did you replace the rubber flex hoses on the front?,if not thats where i would start

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 08:36 PM

yes,worn bushing will let the control arm move around throwing the alinment off and pull when on the brakes

if it spits the rubber all the way out it will stay out of alinement and get a clunking sound when on/off the brakes

if its worn and the bolt is off center in the rubber bushing they need replaced(crushed/worn/sagging)

new bushing tighten up a front end a whole lot when all the BJ and bushings are done at the same time...dont forget..the strut rod bushing could be worn and let it move around also

they are over looked a lot when trouble shooting front end work

make sure the rear drums are spooned up = on both sides while your at it,IMHO

Posted By: TONY_DAGOSTINO

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 08:36 PM

yes, the rubber hoses, brake valves, wheel cylinders front + rear were changed

the fluid pressure is great and consistent all the way around

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 09:31 PM

A car that pulls under braking typically has

a. A significant difference side-to-side in coefficient of friction

and/or

b. A significant difference side-to-side in effective fluid pressure reaching the calipers/brake cylinders

and/or

c. A significant difference side-to-side in caster.

If the car does not exhibit any pull when not under braking, this would generally require a significant shift in caster when applying the brakes. Does the front end "clunk" or show wheel shift when observed from outside when the brakes are applied? If the answer is no, then your problem more likely lies in area a. or b. above.

Which is not to say that worn front-end parts shouldn't be addressed at some point...

Posted By: TONY_DAGOSTINO

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 10:03 PM

HI

no clunking at all is heard

the rf wheel will lock up
(the wheel cylinders were replaced twice)

if not holding the wheel, when you hit the brakes hard it will turn to the right

it goes down the road straight + doesnt pull when you let off of the wheel, until you hit the brakes

Posted By: 68HemiB

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 10:13 PM

Sounds like a. or b., then.

You say "wheel cylinders", so we're talking front drums?

If so, make sure there isn't some bonehead oops like reversed primary/secondary shoe positions. Remember that secondary [rear] shoes are typically darker and/or longer.

Regardless of the brake type, consider swapping the front hard parts and shoes/pads side-to-side. If the pull stays the same, chase hydraulics. If the pull jumps to the other side, chase lining contamination and hard part surface quality.

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 10:15 PM

spoon opposite side up some

yea what he said..drums on the front

Posted By: stumpy

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/10/10 10:23 PM

Just remember drum brakes are like a mullet. Short in front long in back.

Posted By: TONY_DAGOSTINO

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/11/10 01:17 AM

great input, thanks guys

were changing the upper control arm bushings now, figure they should be done anyway, whether theyre the problem or not

i just went out and checked out some of the brake checks i made on a concrete pad that shows skid marks alot better than asphalt

the 2 rears skidded evenly, the right front skidded alittle more than the rears, no skid mark from the left front

yes, the shoes are on correctly, learned about self energizing shoes in my preteen years

"Regardless of the brake type, consider swapping the front hard parts and shoes/pads side-to-side. If the pull stays the same, chase hydraulics. If the pull jumps to the other side, chase lining contamination and hard part surface quality. "

exactly what we were going to try after we did the upper control arm bushings

thanks again, ill keep ya posted

Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/11/10 02:20 AM

spoon the one with no skid up some

that should get it turned around

JK ya

drums x4 are a little horse and buggy for now days,differant methed thats almost forgotten now days

Posted By: gtx6970

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/11/10 02:51 AM

any worn ft end part will cause braking issues. ck the strut rod and lower control arm bushings as well.

also ck the idler and pitman arms

like said if everything is good, and you still have brake pull issues, swap the shoes and see what it gets you

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes p - 09/12/10 12:37 AM

Quote:

any worn ft end part will cause braking issues. ck the strut rod and lower control arm bushings as well.

also ck the idler and pitman arms

like said if everything is good, and you still have brake pull issues, swap the shoes and see what it gets you

I changed my strut rods to the RM units and it changed the braking like night and day

I think struts have more to do with brake pull than any other suspension component

Gus

Posted By: BigTerry

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/12/10 12:48 AM

my 2 cents on the rubber brake line!

Posted By: MLR426

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/13/10 02:16 PM

Quote:

did you replace the rubber flex hoses on the front?,if not thats where i would start

That is were I would start. Recently worked on a car with pulling brakes and the rubber hoses were bad as well as a few wheel cylinders.

logan426

Posted By: TONY_DAGOSTINO

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/13/10 05:58 PM

hi

in the begining of the thread i had posted that all 3 rubber lines were changed (2 front + 1 rear)

thanks again
tony

Posted By: rp23g7

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/13/10 09:47 PM

Yes it would, i just finished this project.

My left lower bushing was shot, it was spinning in the bore, thus causing my strut rod bushing to wear,

Mine would clunk and when it did the steering would change due to the shifting around of the lower control arm. Afer replacing the bushing it steers like a dream now. I just drove it 400 miles, gonns check everything to see if its tight still and go get the alignment checked one more time

Posted By: TONY_DAGOSTINO

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/19/10 04:15 PM

got it

it was the brake shoes

they were like new, not stained or showing any signs of not being good

switched the shoes from left to right, + it pulled to the left instead of the right

so we replaced with a new set, now it stops straight

i have never run across that before

thanks for the help
tony

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/19/10 04:20 PM

Do you think they might have been differnt brands/types from left to right. Like someone just did one side?

Think something could got on the shoes once and was cleaned or burned off?

Weird one.

Quote:

got it

it was the brake shoes

they were like new, not stained or showing any signs of not being good

switched the shoes from left to right, + it pulled to the left instead of the right

so we replaced with a new set, now it stops straight

i have never run across that before

thanks for the help
tony

Posted By: astrobuf

Re: will worn upper ctrl arm bushings make the brakes pull? - 09/20/10 03:23 AM

Quote:

got it

it was the brake shoes

they were like new, not stained or showing any signs of not being good

switched the shoes from left to right, + it pulled to the left instead of the right

so we replaced with a new set, now it stops straight

i have never run across that before

thanks for the help
tony

So, I wonder of the issue is that the left and right show set had different arc's on them. A factory griding error couldhave miss-arc'd one of the primary shoes and you'd then end up with a pull untill it wore in. Not a contamination problem, probably a production problem!

Astrobuf