Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
HEI module...*updated, success!* - 08/20/10 10:46 PM
Ok, now don't start hatin on me for thinkin it, but...I am fixing to install a GM HEI module on my truck *gasp* I was wondering if anybody else has done it, and do ya have pics? The wiring looks like it is very straightforward, and it will clear some clutter and simplify my wiring harness and hopefully ease the engines electrical needs.... don't be embarressed if you have GM parts on yer mopar! How did you mount it? Are you using a heat sink? Did you retain your original as a backup? Or did you remove your ECU system completely (which is what I'm thinking of doing)?
Posted By: mark7171
Re: HEI module... - 08/21/10 12:39 AM
Crisp, Clean, and no Caffiene.
If you do not want to spend the money for the excellent FBO system, this is a strong second choice. The way to make a start stand ignition stsyem too. Works super.
link page
Posted By: convx4
Re: HEI module... - 08/21/10 01:25 PM
Working on this, and have done a lot of research.
Slantsix.org has a great page with lots of info.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28732&highlight=heiUse the links in the first post for more info and parts list. I have about $80 invested and on my third design of a coil mounting bracket. I would like it to fit in the stock location. And might mount the HEI where the the ballast resistor was.
I am tired of not being able to get parts at any parts store, (We have to order that). I want reliability so I can drive my cars any where.
Adding relays for the head lights was the second best improvement To any old mopar in my opinion. First is having the steering box rebuilt by steer and gear.
Ahhh.... I see! Very cool! Out of sight out of mind, I like that! Cant wait to do this mod!
Posted By: polkat
Re: HEI module... - 08/22/10 05:29 AM
Yea, slantsix.org has this fully covered. Here's the best page on that site.
http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15779I made the unit below for my 73 Dart. It was wired like explained on slantsix including the relay. Notice the heatsink underneith and the electic grease under the module. Important stuff. Some guys just bolt the module to the inner fender to act as a heatsink, but I burned a few that way. This heatsink was adopted from a computer CPU heatsink.
Worked great, if a little ugly (that can be fixed), and I've always copied it in every Mopar I've owned since.
Posted By: mark7171
Re: HEI module... - 08/22/10 07:57 AM
My setup does not melt down after the vehicle warms up. The HEI has been in service for years. People like to use the MSD AL mounting plate for a clean look. Never seen that much heatsink on a 4 pin. That melting only happens in extreme cases, and mistakes.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: HEI module... - 08/22/10 08:18 AM
All the good information has been posted regarding the HEI swap. What I will post is that di-electric grease should not be used between the HEI module and the heatsink. Thermal paste should be.
I've done this on my old Valiant, and on my Challenger. I have always just mounted them to the inner fender, and so far have never even had one get warm to the touch.
Posted By: convx4
Re: HEI module... - 08/23/10 01:07 AM
Over the weekend did some work on this. I wanted to take the advantage of the E-coil and not just the HEI module. It took me three tries to get a bracket that would fit and still leave some access. I mounted the E-coil in the same location as the factory coil. I was going to re curve my distributor after the modification was done, so I didn't want to mount the HEI to it. So I made a mount on the front of the coil. I still have some wiring to complete before I test this out.
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Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/23/10 03:20 AM
Does this conversion work on early model Mopars, such as a 1970 Duster? Is it a better setup than the stock electronic ignition with the chrome box?
Posted By: RapidRobert
Re: HEI module... - 08/23/10 03:40 AM
yes, just need an electronic dist to trigger it and Jacobs ign says that it is the only ECU that electronically increases the dwell time as the rpm increases and supposedly it was (in part) developed by some retired NASA space scientists in the early 70's
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/23/10 04:10 AM
So, it does away with the ECU and ballast resistor? Sounds like it would really clean up an engine bay this way!
Well after all of the informative reading, I know how I will be goin about this conversion. I will be making a mount plate to attach underneath the dizzy, and using a e-core coil from a 96 chevy truck with simple bracket to mount it right where my canister coil is now on the intake. No more junk on the firewall, everything nice and neat on the manifold, out of sight
using the e-core coil is going to let me take full advantage of the HEI module. I will take pics as I progress
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/24/10 02:30 AM
Is it necessary to use the e-core coil? If so, where can it be found? I know nothing about this type of coil.
Posted By: Pat_Whalen
Re: HEI module... - 08/24/10 05:28 AM
Not necessary at all to use an e-core coil.
The e-core coil has a couple of benefits over a standard oil filled canister style coil.
Due to the fact that the e-core is arranged in much more of a true transformer fashion than that of the canister, it is able to maintain relatively high voltage output while also increasing a higher current output. Consider this the "best of both worlds". The ability to produce a strong, high voltage spark in high cylinder pressure applications.
The lower resistance of the e-core also means less heat and a quicker charge, perfect for CD-type ignitions.
It also doesn't get hot (at all) like a standard canister-type coil, and (despite the argument that wages on), the e-core coil can be mounted in any position without the threat of leakage (In fact, the e-core is epoxy filled, so it hasn't got anything to leak).
Here is a quote from a Corvette tech page (eek!):
Quote:
According to industry experts, coils have always had to compromise voltage output against current output. More voltage increases the initial ionization of the spark plug gap, but lowers the amount of current or heat that follows across the plug gap. When a coil is designed to produce more current, the voltage output generally suffers, which taxes the ease of ionizing the gap. In order to accomplish a combination of high voltage and current, the latest coils incorporate a special "E-core" winding design. This is an efficient design that more closely resembles the windings in a true transformer. In this system, less loss occurs during the transfer of electricity due to the closed core of the coil.
Given this technology, an "E" style coil produces spark with both high voltage and current. Another benefit is the coils run extremely cool, even at high rpm. This is due to the efficiency of the design, as well as the large laminations (Laminations are the heat sink-style "fins" on the outside of the coil body).
Link to that page:
http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/ignition_coil_info/index.html
A link to Summit's offering of e-core coils:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Depar...re/?Ns=Rank|Asc
An MSD Blaster SS E-core coil:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8207/
And a Mallory E-Core:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-30441/?rtype=10
Long story short: If you have the opportunity to upgrade your ignition coil to an e-core.
Hope this helps 
Here is a pic of the coil I am gonna be after. This example is an MSD coil but other than the sticker looks exactly like the OEM coils in '96-'00 chevy trucks and suv's
Posted By: herkamer
Re: HEI module... - 08/24/10 05:50 PM
Here's how I did mine. Set up for Megasquirt to control the timing, so hopefully the emissions goons don't notice the extra 3 wires going into box.
Doubt they will, they aren't terribly smart.
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/26/10 01:29 AM
Does this installation need a heat sink to work?
Posted By: mark7171
Re: HEI module... - 08/26/10 05:41 AM
If running a old style coil a ballast is needed for ideal operations.
The accel 4 pin HEI control is just as good.
No "special" thermal paste needed. A dab of CPU stuff for computers is fine.
Here is a bottom pic
Wiring in the picture is all. That is IT. Connect a positive wire to the + side of the coil and done. 15-20 minutes tops. Invisible back under there.
Posted By: MadMatt
Re: HEI module... - 08/27/10 05:37 AM
I'm currently running the MP version of the MSD 6AL and an MSD canister type Blaster Coil with a Mallory sourced Mopar style electronic distributor. Would the conversion to the HEI setup offer any gains or advantages over what I have now?
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/28/10 07:51 PM
Before I consider this, can any of you advise if this is an upgrade for my current setup? I'm running a billet Mopar distributor with a chrome box and an Accel Super Coil.
TIA!!!
The HEI with an ecore coil would be an improvment
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/28/10 08:39 PM
OK, thanks. Now, is there any type of mounting bracket to place the coil in the stock location? I'm running an Air Gap manifold.
Posted By: dodgeram440
Re: HEI module... - 08/28/10 09:43 PM
Not to detract from this conversion in any way, but there is another way to get the same results just by replacing the distributor.
I did this on my 86 D100 318 to eliminate the ESC computer. I got the distributor from Ebay for less than $60 and hook up is as easy as a hot wire going to the coil and the two wires from the dist hook up to the coil. It uses a gm style module (although not an exact gm copy, the terminals are on the side instead of on the ends) mounted under the little housing on the side. I used an MSD Blaster 3 coil that did not require a balast so I did not have to add one, or you could also use an e-coil which the sellers also offer. Doing this swap has been a huge improvement over the stock system. It has helped with the hesitation, though I still have some carb issues, the idle has smoothed out considerably, and the tach needle is now rock steady.
Although I went with this option with my small block, when I get the 440 swapped in (IF I ever get the 440 swapped in. Where's the OverHaulin' gang when you need them?!) I do plan on using a stock distributor (or maybe a billet replacement, eventually) and the gm HEI module conversion as outlined. I know this HEI distributor is available for the big blocks also, but I don't really want that big housing sticking out on the front of my engine. I would prefer something a little more stealthy.
Posted By: kilroy
Re: HEI module... - 08/28/10 09:48 PM
Can someone explain the ohms need on a coil? there is a .25, .5, and 1.5. I would like to use one of the hot ecoils but I dont understand which ohm I should use. Im using electronic ignition w/ chrome box.
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/30/10 03:09 AM
Can anybody advise of any brackets that may be available for the e-core coil to be mounted in the stock location?
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 08/30/10 05:33 PM
Excellent, sir! I appreciate it!
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:21 PM
OK folks, its now (for me) no longer a can it be done topic, but a "i dunnit" topic lol. After several hours of painstaking work, The truck is running on the HEI module....and let me say, wow. I wasnt sure that it would make a huge difference, but it did! Acceleration is is crisper, idle is better (i actually had to turn the idle down a tad!), and over all just feels more responsive! If you decide to do it, you be the judge. Now, on to how i dunnit. First things, first. The parts. I decided I was going touse an e-corecoil, because i wanted maximum benefits. I decided on a coil from a 1996-2000 chebby pickup or SUV because it has a a bracket, and a mounting place with a heat sinc for the module ($25 at the wrecking yard))! I installed an MSD HEI module that a buddy gave me (free, but you can get an HEI moduleat O'Reilly's for $25). And of coarse, wiring connectors and other realted supplies. My install is a little more involved because of the setup i chose, and because i modified (or simplified actually) my engine harness. I decided come hell or high water, this was gonna work, and i removed the wiring for the ballast resisitor and the ecu, as well as the original coil wires. You dont have to do this, you can choose to leave your original wiring just in case.
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:24 PM
Ok now for pics (if you decide to use a canistor coil, some of this obviously won't apply):
This is the coil with bracket, and module heat sink i got:
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:27 PM
The module on the 1996 chebby is a bit different, so some modification is neccassry. The mounting holes on the 4-pin module are the same, but one the heat sincs fins will have to be removed:
After removal:
Also the locator nubs on the module will have to be removed. The nub:
Removed:
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:32 PM
When mounting the module, Its important to use the thermal grease. So have gotten away with not using it, but i am looking for longevity, so i recommend it. I put some on the bracket part of the mount:
and on the module:
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:34 PM
With module assembled, this is what it looks like:
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:37 PM
Then I added my relay (also not required, but recommended). I simply drilled out one the aluminum rivets that hold the coil to the bracket, and put a bolt through to the relay. Makes for a nice "all-in-one" unit!
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:41 PM
For connectors, i obtained the sealed connector for the coil when i when to the junk yard, and these GM alernator pigtails I got at Autozone for $3 areperfect. I got two of them. You'll notice one of the pins of the module is smaller thanthe rest, but with the connectors, i used, it doesnt really matter:
Ok, now, the COIL WIRE. This can be tricky! The coil I chose has a VERY UNIQUE plug-in. I ended up buying and ENTIRE set of plug wires for a 1996 chebby truck, and then getting some wire ends from Accel and modifying one (i have extra wires if ya need lol). With my modified wire, these are the ends now:
Posted By: '84 D150 Shorty
Re: HEI module...*updated, done!* - 08/31/10 02:52 PM
Next i started wiring it up. I will post a schematic for my set up here shortly. Here we see it slowly taking shape (Important note: You need a good ground for both the module and the relay. I ran a wire from the ground pin on the relay to a mounting screw on the module. This grounds the relay through the module, and the module is grounded through the bracket. To ensure the bracket grounds properly, i sanded the paint off the mounting holes, so when bolted down, it would be grounds good)
This the module to distributor pigtail i made up:
This is my firewall/coil setup pre-HEI. As stated previously, I removed all the components for the originally setup, and modified my wiring harness, but you dont have to do that.
after installing the HEI "component":
And all buttoned up and running (actually, its was running when i snapped the pic :
)
Ok, now for the wiring details.....gimme a bit while i get all the details gathered up....
Ok, here is the diagram for MY setup. You may have to tailor to suit your needs:
And here is a basic simplifed version for those desiring to use a canistor style coil. I want to reaffirm one detail. If you use a .5 ohm canistor coil, to keep from cooking the coil you MUST use a ballast resistor. If you use the late model coil from a "lean burn" system you don't need the ballast. Some have gotten away with not using the ballast on the .5 ohm coils, but it is NOT advisable! Ask me how I know!
Posted By: 340SHORTY
Re: HEI module... - 08/31/10 09:49 PM
very good info.. I want to this on my 87 RC. wanna do it again?
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 09/01/10 01:02 AM
I really appreciate all the time you spent taking pics and drawing wiring diagrams. I am planning on doing this conversion once I get around to reinstalling the engine in my Duster.
However, while at Summit the other day (I live nearby), I was looking at the e-core coils. The aftermarket e-core coils are a great deal larger than the stock GM e-core coils. Can these be used in place of the stock GM coil, and if so, does anybody have any ideas on mounting the coil to an Air Gap intake?
TIA
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 09/01/10 02:52 AM
Yep, I'm sure these were aftermarket e-core coils that mount independently, not the cap-mount style. I was really hoping to mount the coil on the manifold where the canister-type coil would mount. I suppose I could fabricate a mount. They seemed quite large.
Where did you get your hands on that thermal paste?
Posted By: 70duster340
Re: HEI module... - 09/01/10 03:22 PM
I suppose I can get my hands on some from Radio Shack or some place such as that.
