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5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle
Posted By: fstfish66
5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 05:05 AM
has any one had sucess with a magnum motor swap?? using the fuel injection and factory engine wiring harnesss ???
im looking to up grade to the more modern engine using the fuel injection and dakota/jeep computer and serpentien belt,,,stock not modified,, using a 904 tranny, any one????? thanks in advance
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 02:27 PM
We did this swap last summer in our 84 Ramcharger. The donor vehicle was a wrecked 96 Dakota. I made the decision early on that we would remove all of the Ramcharger wiring and use the Dakota wiring. That worked out well with only a few modifications necessary, including lengthening some wires.
We did develop a problem that I finally fixed this past weekend. It had started stalling and stumbling on the transition back to idle. This was after the exhaust we had cobbled up came apart (even with the single Flowmaster still in place). It turns out that outside air getting to the downstream O2 sensor was the culprit. I got a different tailpipe back in and the problem went away.
We have recorded a high of 20mpg on the highway, with about 17mpg the norm.
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 02:28 PM
One more thing, mid-90s Rams had a bracket that the computer mounts to. Depending on what vehicle and the availability of flat surfaces grabbing one is a good idea.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 02:37 PM
hey jim,, thanks yes im aware of people using a complete wiring harness for a swap,,,
ide be more then willing to do that,,but i have found a tet mule engine super low mileage so im told,,,with one the engine harness,,,
so im wanting to adapt that to my vehicle,,hot wires makes or re works the magnum harnesses,,at a cost of 820 bucks ouch,,,,,
then there is the notching of the bell housing on my 904 for the crank triger,,,from whjat i have seen no biggy,,,
its converting the engine wiring,,hot wires tells me that the harness is probably missing one leg for the computer,,and they also told me to run the numbers on the J TECH computer to make sure it is a 8 cylinder computer since the guy seling the motor had or had access to mopar computers and such,,,
msybe i should find a dakota or jeep,and gut the wiring?????
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 02:41 PM
For the most part the engine harness is all you really need. I just didn't want to go the effort of modifying the dash harness, plus we need the OBDII connector to pass smog. This was just easier for us. We also used a 92 Ram instrument cluster for the electric speedometer. Since you plan on running the 904 you will need to change out the speedometer drive. We did the engine/trans swap together as I really wanted the overdrive.
Whatever year engine/harness/computer you are using you will want a wiring diagram for.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 02:46 PM
i was told that since runnign the 904 for the time being,,it wont be a problem,,like if doing a 5.7 swap with the non computer tranny,,
i was thinking if i could get a 97 dakota/jeep wiring diagram i might be able to figure out how to eliminate the wiring not needed,,,the hot wires re worked harness come with a 4 wire hook up simple but costly,,,
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 03:15 PM
You still need the speed/distance sensor for the computer. There was also something about the 97-up that made it more difficult, but I can't remember what the specifics were.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 03:41 PM
ok im not sure what you meen about the speed sensor,,,,ive read thru a search that to try to advoid the OBD2 style if possible,,maybe this 97 motor,,and an earlier computer ??? i e mailed mega squirt,,hoping to hear back maybe i can advoid the factory computer all together if affordable
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/21/10 08:00 PM
In place of the original mechanical speedometer drive assembly is an electronic speed/distance sensor. And that doesn't matter which computer control you use.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 02:23 AM
are you saying ide need this in my 904 using any computer or i can delete the speed sensor if using the 904 ??? sorry for all the confusion,,,ive been told by hot wire they can make the computer thing there is a manual tranny
thanks
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 05:09 AM
Even with a manual trans you need a speed/distance sensor. Some of the earlier vehicles used a dual adapter, but the electronic part is different than the later.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 01:35 PM
Quote:
Even with a manual trans you need a speed/distance sensor. Some of the earlier vehicles used a dual adapter, but the electronic part is different than the later.
so i guess the factory computer needs to see wheel speed ??? your the first with this information,,,
ive been searching the after market,,but not a lot out there for the mopar magnum,,
i have e mails to f.a.s.t and painless,and back and forth with mega squirt,,
seems the easiest way is to get a complete donor dakota/jeep and use the entire vehicle wiring harness,,
seems like theres more out there to fire a 5.7 hemi then a magnum engine ,,no wonder there arent a lot of magnum powered street rods out there ,,i guess it will always be a chevy world,,,
if theres a way i will find it,,,
Posted By: Andrewh
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 03:43 PM
so I have the prototype painless system. It is setup for the 98 and up connectors.
They chose not to use the sensor over the transmission. Rather they modded the distributer to have a shutter wheel to pick that up.
They also use a bunch of chevy sensors and spark controler.
The 94 era magnums are apparently easier to use for a direct swap. Wedgeman did it and a couple of others. by 97 you are into odbII instead of odbI.
There is a thread around where we are tossing around the mustang maf system swaping it over to run the magnum, but it requried a few distributer mods.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 03:53 PM
Quote:
so I have the prototype painless system. It is setup for the 98 and up connectors.
They chose not to use the sensor over the transmission. Rather they modded the distributer to have a shutter wheel to pick that up.
They also use a bunch of chevy sensors and spark controler.
The 94 era magnums are apparently easier to use for a direct swap. Wedgeman did it and a couple of others. by 97 you are into odbII instead of odbI.
There is a thread around where we are tossing around the mustang maf system swaping it over to run the magnum, but it requried a few distributer mods.
thanks i seen that tread using the mustang stuff,,was a little confusing to me,,
funny thing i met a guy last week that converted the ford over the counter carb to efi kit to work on his pontiac street rod,,,he machined the dizzy to fit in the pontiac block,,shortened the dizzy shaft and put the gm dizzy drive gear on it,, then fooled the computer making a conversion cross over for the injection wiring firing order,,pretty slick,,,
why are the 95 and earlier magnums easier to make work ?? the one im looking ta is a 97 motor super low mileage test mule engine,,,
if 95 and earlier is easier,,,cant i get a 95 computer or are the pluggs differnt? a 95 puter and engine harness make it simpler ??
hot wire will make the harness a 4 wire hook up and reflash the puter to thing it has a stick shift so i dont need the tranny section of the puter,,for a whopping 820 bucks,,
Posted By: patrick
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 04:09 PM
look for a '96 or older dakota vehicle speed sensor. it plugs into the tranny where the speedo cable goes, and has I believe both the VSS and a cable drive for a conventional speedo.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/22/10 04:14 PM
Quote:
look for a '96 or older dakota vehicle speed sensor. it plugs into the tranny where the speedo cable goes, and has I believe both the VSS and a cable drive for a conventional speedo.
ok thanks
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 12:47 AM
I did this swap last year in my 67 Barracuda..
94-95 models are the easiest to swap sinc you only need to connect the engine to the computer, it's a stand alone system.
Running a 904, you don't need the vehicule speed sensor as the governor will do the job..or anything hooked to the trans...
4 wires to connect and you're ready to go !
The only hassle is tp mount the electric pump in the tank....use the stock unit.
Dan
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 05:03 AM
96 does not have the mechanical output from the speed sensor. If the computer doesn't see the sensor it will set a code. 96 is the beginning of OBDII.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 05:10 AM
Quote:
I did this swap last year in my 67 Barracuda..
94-95 models are the easiest to swap sinc you only need to connect the engine to the computer, it's a stand alone system.
Running a 904, you don't need the vehicule speed sensor as the governor will do the job..or anything hooked to the trans...
4 wires to connect and you're ready to go !
The only hassle is tp mount the electric pump in the tank....use the stock unit.
Dan
thanks,,can you run a earlier computer on a later engine??
i have talked,,E MAILED,, read every thing i can find,,it seems like no one wants you to do this swap,, ive contacted places that have rebuilt computers, 2 or 3 places,,they want a vin# to program any computer,, with this 97 motor ive been told ill need a stich shift computer,,
did you re work your wiring or send it out ?
mega squirt stand alone KIT complete 950.00 then u need a lap top,,geez they sure dont make it easy i applowd you on your conversion
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 05:16 AM
97 shouldn't need a VIN, but you're right about a lot of these companies not wanting to give out any info. The big difference between the sensors/injectors/etc. between OBDI and OBDII is the downstream O2 sensor. A trip to the local library for wiring diagrams will tell a greater story of any differences. The wiring and computers are certainly different, but there's no reason you can't make the 97 engine a 95, electrically.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 05:31 AM
Quote:
97 shouldn't need a VIN, but you're right about a lot of these companies not wanting to give out any info. The big difference between the sensors/injectors/etc. between OBDI and OBDII is the downstream O2 sensor. A trip to the local library for wiring diagrams will tell a greater story of any differences. The wiring and computers are certainly different, but there's no reason you can't make the 97 engine a 95, electrically.
the engine 97 in question come with a J TECH mopar computer,, hot wires told me to check the part number,make sure its for a 8 cylinder,,
ive read so much and got some of it crossed up,,,,there is way more development re working a 5.7 computer verses a magnum,,i cant remember what they can and cant do to re programming a magnum,,
but like u said the 97 needs to see wheel speed,,if using a auto computer,, does not if u use a manual computer,,
so i called a few of these computer rebuilders,, they wont program one to run unless i have a VIN,,, i did find a place that has several manual computers,,around 100 bucks,,but he needs a part number for whjat im not sure,,ide assume a manual shift 5.2 in 1997 is going to be rare,,
so yes if i could figure out how to convert it to the earlier wiring,,or maybe hot wires can,,but thats 820 bucks,,yikes,, im not a computer programer,, and dont fully know all whats going on with the engine computers,,,
mega squirt has astand alone unit,that must run with an 1980 era distributor from a lean burn
almost glad its my weekend to work,,lol my head is about to explode from trying to figure out whats going to work and what makes sense dollar wise,,,
Posted By: Jim_Lusk
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 02:22 PM
I can get you the part number for the 96 manual trans computer. I've got one I borrowed from Devilbrad for troubleshooting my Ramcharger.
If it were me and smog tests were not an issue I would find a 94-95 wiring harness and computer and just go from there. Lots of trucks being parted out.
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/23/10 07:58 PM
Quote:
I can get you the part number for the 96 manual trans computer. I've got one I borrowed from Devilbrad for troubleshooting my Ramcharger.
If it were me and smog tests were not an issue I would find a 94-95 wiring harness and computer and just go from there. Lots of trucks being parted out.
JIM,, thanks for all the info,,,, yes e mail me a part number so i have it on hand,,ill check with the supplier..,
i was thinking the same a older engine wiring harness and computer,,but i would need a manual computer of that era also ?? or no ???
i thought the manual puter was because the obd2 needed wheel speed ?? read so much i cant keep it straight,,,
wonder if i could get the older harness from mopar,,if its workable with out being reworked,,,,if it needs to be reworded the old wires will do,,its the plugs they cant get and need to modifiy or build a usable harness,,
thanks again fstfish66@aol.com
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/24/10 02:59 PM
Get the 94-95 wiring and computer and you will be redy to go, you can swap computer no problems..
SInce i went with a stroker this year, I have my wiring and ECM to spare.....
Dan
Posted By: OldHippie
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/24/10 03:27 PM
Don......I thought Mopar Performance had this harness deal covered when Mopar Action did the magnum 360 in to a '62 B Body swap a few years back?
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/24/10 08:22 PM
Quote:
Get the 94-95 wiring and computer and you will be redy to go, you can swap computer no problems..
SInce i went with a stroker this year, I have my wiring and ECM to spare.....
Dan
guess ide have to find a junk yard vehicle with the 94 95 wiring and puter,,i may try chrysler,,,
so can i use the 95 computer from an automatic and not have to show wheel speed??
im guessing thats the problem with the 96 and newer set up cause im using a non computer trans 904..
so you have a set up to spare??? not going to neeed it ???
Posted By: fstfish66
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/24/10 08:26 PM
Quote:
Don......I thought Mopar Performance had this harness deal covered when Mopar Action did the magnum 360 in to a '62 B Body swap a few years back?
i never knew or heard about this,,mopar has a complete unit,, for converting any small block to efi,.,,,its like 2500 bucks,,comes with new dizzy, intake,throttle body,wiring,computer,,
im trying to get a factory magnum to run in my head on paper for my street rod before i buy or pass up this super low mileage magnum engine i found,,,
im not sure how much easier it will be to convert using the 94/95 stuff,, but ill search for the stuff and see,,,,by then the motor may be sold my luck lol
Posted By: Wedgeman
Re: 5.2 magnum motor in older vehicle - 07/24/10 10:56 PM
Easy.look for a Ram 1500 truck............plenty !