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471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first?

Posted By: Blue69Charger

471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 06:45 PM

I have a 471 hemi in a 69 charger. It has no problems with cooling under 80 degrees but when its hotter the temperature starts to creep up at idle. It will cool off quick once it gets to around 40 mph. I haven't hooked up the a/c yet, because I would like to get it to run cool first. I have the mopar performance water pump housing and high flow water pump, and a high flow 180° thermostat. The radiator is a 3 year 26" champion radiator 2-row core with 1" tubes and the lower radiator hose has a spring in it. When I bought the radiator the ad said it was good for 400 hp which is undersized for the current engine. I have a stock '215 fan and a jaguar fan clutch. I have non-ac 440 pulleys from BPE. Timing is set at 8 initial 32 total. It runs and idles great, but probably could use more initial timing. I'm considering buying a griffin GRI-5-866GB-FAX 26" radiator with a 3" core which is rated for 600 hp. But I saw a recent post on a mercedes c-class electric fan that looks like it would fit good. Would a high-amp electric fan help with cooling at idle or am I better off trying a bigger radiator first. Both upgrades cost about the same, because the I would have to buy a new alternator/brackets to get the electric fan to work. Ideally I would like the temperature to stay at 180-190° stuck in traffic on a 100° day with the a/c on.
Posted By: fuseable

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 07:30 PM

I have a very similar setup, I went with the 3" Griffin and a Flex-a-lite (I believe) 7 blade flex fan. I know a clutch fan would be better but I did not have room, I have an 64 dodge. Stock pump housing with Milodon hi flo pump. I fabed up an aluminium shroud. My stuff runs 180 in 95 degree heat around town, seems to run 185 to 190 on highway, and I have seen 195 with the foot in it, but it comes back down to 180 when I settle down. The 3" Griffin radiator is a nice piece, it is pricey though, but worth it.

Attached picture 6055505-RAD+Fan007.JPG
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 08:18 PM

Thanks fuseable. Would you happen to know if the extra thickness of the 3" core puts the core closer to the fan? If so could you measure the distance from the core to the engine side of the fan mounting brackets?
Posted By: ahy

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 09:03 PM

I would upgrade the radiator first. The thermal clutch mechanical fan can move as much or more air than any electric.

For what its worth, I'm running the 26" stock style (top tank) high capacity aluminum radiator Mancini sells behind a 496 B. I run it with matching shroud. With the MP thermal clutch fan setup it holds 190 or so ideling on a 95 deg day with AC on and cools right off to 180 when I get moving.

I'm using the smallish 5 blade fan that came with the kit. I didn't need the 7 blade super high capacity Cordoba fan I kept as backup.
Posted By: fuseable

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 09:13 PM

It does put it closer (in my case). I have 3 5\8 but mine is for an early B-body. Yours might be slightly different. They build them for specific body styles. Check out there website, and call them. I had them fab up a shroud without a hole in it that was 1 inch off of the core I then installed it and marked it for water pump center line, cut the hole and fabed up the extension. I would go for it, it solved all of my cooling problems. I tried alot of ideas, big electric fans, big cross flow aluminum radiator, played with timing, vacuume advance settings, large max wedge stock radiator. I even brought an LM-1 to check air fuel ratio, (I am glad I got one as it is a very good tuning tool). I fought it for 3 years, it got to the point where I was only enjoying my Hemi car in the spring and fall. (I live in the midwest). The Griffin Rad solved all of my problems.
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 09:41 PM

Thanks fuseable. That is thicker than what is listed on summit's webpage. I will give Griffin a call on Monday to try to get more detailed dimensions. In the mean time, does anyone have a griffin GRI-5-866GB-FAX in a 66-70 big block b-body? If so, how much room do you have between the core and the fan clutch? Is there room for a '215 fan with a Jaguar clutch?
Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 10:09 PM

I just picked up a new 4 core 22 inch brass and copper radiator for Jarrods Duster from http://portellradiator.com.
Total cost with tax was $385 with tax.
Jarrod wanted to keep the stock look is why he went that way.
The 26" four cores are the same price of $365 plus tax ($385 total).

While I was there I talked to the owner (Geary Portell) about building a new radiator for my 67 Satellite for the 572 Hemi that's going in it.

What he recommended was a 26 inch radiator in aluminum rather than a brass and copper one.
That kinda kills my planned stock look.

A custom made 26" crossflow was $345 and adding a custom made fan shroud with 2-12" electric fans was another $250 for a total of $595.

A custom made 26" downflow was $445 and adding the custom made fan shroud with the 2- 12" electric fans was another $250 (again) for a total of $695.

Both types of fans were designed for a stick, no internal trans cooler.
One could be added for another $50, but he recommended simply using a separate trans cooler to keep the engine running cooler.
Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 10:10 PM

I have a '69 Roadrunner in which I put a big inch hemi with about 600 hp in place of the 383. I had a 22" radiator and didn't want to change the opening or drill holes in the front. I went with a 22" brass triple flow radiator from US radiator along with the smaller 383 fan and a high flow water pump. The car runs cool all of the time and does not seem to get hot even in hot weather. I have about 300 miles on the system now and I am very happy with it. The only thing is that the radiators are kind of expensive, around $500.
Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/26/10 10:20 PM

Sorry for the slight hijack.

Quote:

I have a '69 Roadrunner in which I put a big inch hemi with about 600 hp in place of the 383. I had a 22" radiator and didn't want to change the opening or drill holes in the front. I went with a 22" brass triple flow radiator from US radiator along with the smaller 383 fan and a high flow water pump. The car runs cool all of the time and does not seem to get hot even in hot weather. I have about 300 miles on the system now and I am very happy with it. The only thing is that the radiators are kind of expensive, around $500.



So yours cools fine with the 22" 3 core radiator?
Posted By: Jack Zupan

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 01:11 AM

Yes,

It works surprisingly well. The coolant passes through the radiator three times because of baffles in the tanks and this is very effective. It is explained pretty well at their website.
Posted By: torkrules

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 02:14 AM

Quote:

I have a 471 hemi in a 69 charger. It has no problems with cooling under 80 degrees but when its hotter the temperature starts to creep up at idle. It will cool off quick once it gets to around 40 mph. I haven't hooked up the a/c yet, because I would like to get it to run cool first. I have the mopar performance water pump housing and high flow water pump, and a high flow 180° thermostat. The radiator is a 3 year 26" champion radiator 2-row core with 1" tubes and the lower radiator hose has a spring in it. When I bought the radiator the ad said it was good for 400 hp which is undersized for the current engine. I have a stock '215 fan and a jaguar fan clutch. I have non-ac 440 pulleys from BPE. Timing is set at 8 initial 32 total. It runs and idles great, but probably could use more initial timing. I'm considering buying a griffin GRI-5-866GB-FAX 26" radiator with a 3" core which is rated for 600 hp. But I saw a recent post on a mercedes c-class electric fan that looks like it would fit good. Would a high-amp electric fan help with cooling at idle or am I better off trying a bigger radiator first. Both upgrades cost about the same, because the I would have to buy a new alternator/brackets to get the electric fan to work. Ideally I would like the temperature to stay at 180-190° stuck in traffic on a 100° day with the a/c on.



The A/C might have an effect. What temp does it run at now? My 472 is putting out 658Hp and I have a 22" Mancini aluminum rad with a 18" solid flex-a-lite fan and a 180 stat. Moving mine sits at 175 degrees. It does creep up to 185 in traffic.

In you case, I would think a 26" rad should work fine. I found that I my temp would creep a lot more with a clutch fan. Pretty cheap to try a fixed fan.

Also, not knowing what your set up is or whether or not you use the vacuum advance, but I found my engine responded better at 18 degrees initial, 32 degrees total. The extra timing might help to cool things a bit. Make sure your mixtures are not too lean and that you have all of the seals on the hood as they direct the airflow through the rad instead of over it.
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 07:26 PM

Thanks guys. I'm not using the vacuum advance. I have the radiator seal on the hood, but need to reinstall the rear one. I think I'm going to go with the griffin 3" core musclecar radiator if I can get it to fit. They make a 2.5" core version with the stock tank thickness that will handle up to 600 hp. But that would probably be borderline without the a/c and not give me extra capacity for future upgrades. I will most likely need a flex-a-lite fan to clear the radiator. fuseable or torkrules do you remember what part number fan you are using?
Posted By: fuseable

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 07:56 PM

Flex-A-Lite 1818
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 09:06 PM

Thanks fuseable.
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 09:44 PM

I run a 22" from US radiator behind my 470 about 525hp. Stays 185-195 in traffic. Mechanical 5 blade fan. Small Timing and carb setting changes can make it run hot. I have made mine go 200+ tuning in the wrong direction.
Posted By: Joshs68

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 09:51 PM

Almost forgot I do not have a fan shroud either. I do run the Jag fan clutch and my fan is 1/2" from my radiator
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 06/27/10 10:49 PM

Thanks guys, I ordered the Griffin GRI-5-866GB-FAX radiator. I'll let you know how it cools and fits and if the stock fan fits.
Posted By: Blue69Charger

Re: 471 hemi Upgrade fan or radiator first? - 07/31/10 11:04 PM

I installed the new radiator. It fit great. The holes were in the right place and the brackets sit flat and flush. Didn't require filing and drilling like my Champion radiator did. It took about a gallon more coolant than the Champion did. It runs much cooler now. It didn't get past 190°F in traffic and cooled down quick to 180°F on a 90°F day.

It took a while to find all the right parts to put a 69 style radiator in place of the 70-73 radiator that was in there before. Here is a parts list to put the radiator in a 69 b-body. Check your fan clearance before running.

Griffin Thermal Products 5-866GB-FAX 26" Radiator with 3" core
Griffin Thermal Products KM-70 Radiator Cap
Mopar P2785434 Fan Shroud
Flex-a-lite 1818 Fan
Flex-a-lite 14528 1" fan spacer
Flex-a-lite 14524 1/2" fan spacer
McMaster-Carr 93580A630 1/4"-20 Press in Studs
McMaster-Carr 91257A592 5/16"-18 x 2-1/4"L Grade 8 Bolts (I couldn't find this size anywhere else)
5 1/4" Washers
5 1/4"-20 Nuts
2 cans Eastwood Radiator paint (If the stock look is desired)
3' 5/16" ID overflow hose

Attached picture 6115141-NewRadiator.jpg
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