Moparts

Smallblock in a Caravan

Posted By: elmor

Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/22/10 07:38 PM

A few years ago, I saw a mid-80's Caravan with a smallblock/automatic in it. Anyone ever build one of these, and how much of a pain was it? I' sure I could figure out how to mount the engine, trans, and rear, but I'm concerned with front suspension.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/22/10 08:22 PM

A mid engine install may be easier, and the handling might actually be better than stock!
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/22/10 08:33 PM

dont see hwy you cant do it

I put a 350 chebby in an astro van before

hardest thing was hacking the wire harness

and that thing would fly with 3.73 gears
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/22/10 09:24 PM

Problem with that is the Astro is a RWD, the Caravan is not.....
Posted By: In_The_Pink

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 04:39 AM

Quote:

Problem with that is the Astro is a RWD, the Caravan is not.....




And it already has a V6, so adding two more cylinders up front and switching to an electric fan is a piece of cake compared to a Caravan V8-RWD swap.

I would think a V8-RWD conversion setup for a FWD Daytona would be a good place to start.
Posted By: Kern Dog

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 05:17 AM

All you really need is a sawzall, a MIG welder and a tape measure, right? Men who blazed the trail back in the pioneer days are who made things happen. Are YOU that guy?
Posted By: elmor

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 07:21 AM

I've got a sawzall, and my buddy has a welding shop. The van I saw was a mid engine mount. I figure a slightly warm 360 ought to run it pretty strong. I don't think swapping in an 8 1/4 rear should be too hard. I'm concerned with transmission and driveshaft length. Need to do some measuring. Hey if I'm gonna go this far, why not a bigblock? I know where I can get a C-body 8 3/4 rear for nothing. But I digress.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 12:05 PM

I understand it is not a RWD van...I was just saying I think it could be done..

my worthless
Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 03:14 PM

In some ways I think the Caravan might be a little easier than the Astro.

With the Astro, it mostly bolts in but you're constrained by the close-fit OEM structure, and to R&R the engine in a van ain't easy.

But to put an engine in the middle of the cargo floor (probably have to put it right behind the front seats in order to get a driveshaft in there), in a wide-open area, thru the side door, sounds easier. If there is an extended-wheelbase model that might be the best start to get good driveline angles.

Yes, you'll have lots of engine-cradle and axle mounting fab to do, but it's a fairly blank slate without a lot of interference from existing structure. Run some 2x3 or 2x4 box tubing longitudinally and then tie front and rear framerails to it. A 4-link might be the way to go for rear suspension? A Ford Explorer 8.8 might be narrow enough.

Radiator stays up front and plumbed with extension pipes, use elec fans to cool it.

Fuel tank needs a re-lo? I presume it is currently forward of the rear axle?

The existing steering and susp would be OK, just pull the halfshafts out. You could even leave the original engine/trans in there for ballast if needed, depending on how much the mid-engine settles out. If you need less ballast, remove the engine/trans, and you have a nice hole to locate suitable ballast.

I’m thinkin’ a smallblock underneath a sturdy metal shroud, with some good insulation on top, some fake cargo covering it, would make a helluva sleeper. This is a neat idea!

And hey, if you plan it right, you might even still be able to drive it around some while you're working on it!
Posted By: 440newport

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 04:11 PM

A member here used to have a 318 powered caravan. I don't have any pics or details but I'm pretty sure he used the F/M/J front suspension in it.
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 05:49 PM

This one?

Attached picture 6051087-V8Caravan02.jpg
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 05:52 PM

I forgot what his handle was but I think it was Minivanman or something like that. I believe he used Diplomat K-frame or something similar. These things already have leaf springs out back to hang a 8 3/4 on. Nuther pic...

Attached picture 6051095-V8Caravan01.jpg
Posted By: Runnin74

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 06:51 PM

I don't know about the earlier model Caravans, But the 2001 and up models have no tranny tunnel - just flat floorboards. I suppose if one was going to the effort to put in a small block that wasn't a mid mount you could graft in a tunnel.
Posted By: buildanother

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 07:35 PM

It would be way easier to add the v-8 to the astro, heck they even had quadrajets on them the first year, the trans will work, and will be tight up front at water pump area, but do-able.
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 08:10 PM

Sure hope the caravan swapper joins in on this one, that looks neat!
Posted By: FuryUs

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 09:36 PM

Scarevandan left moparts a while back. Not exactly sure why, but I doubt he'll chime in.
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/23/10 09:40 PM

He had a small website that I kept in my favorites but it looks like it has been taken down.
Edit:
If your serious about contacting him you might take a look at this...
http://www.moparts.org/moparts/carshow/2003/4/scarevandan.html
Posted By: elmor

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/24/10 01:00 AM

I'd sure like to see how he mounted the engine and trans, so I could duplicate it. As far as I recall, non of the mopar minivans had trans tunnels.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/24/10 01:49 AM

I say just cut-the-floor out and throw in some 2x3 lots-of tubing and the HANG the body onto that.

ALSO .. move the motor WAAAY back ...and enter the van from the rear slider doors ....

Posted By: Dakota_Don

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/24/10 10:23 PM

somone here had a van wit a SB, if i remember right he used a dipy k frame, and the rear axel.
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/26/10 02:14 AM

Did you try contacting him? There was an email addy included in that link I posted previously.
Quote:

I'd sure like to see how he mounted the engine and trans, so I could duplicate it. As far as I recall, non of the mopar minivans had trans tunnels.


Posted By: sthemi

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/26/10 03:52 AM

Quote:

I don't know about the earlier model Caravans, But the 2001 and up models have no tranny tunnel - just flat floorboards. I suppose if one was going to the effort to put in a small block that wasn't a mid mount you could graft in a tunnel.




Start with an AWD minivan, they have a driveshaft, rear axle and flat floors..
Posted By: elmor

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/26/10 03:37 PM

I tried contacting him through that website. No response yet.
Posted By: elmor

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 07:47 AM

What type of rear axle did the AWD Caravans have in them? That does sound like an interesting concept. I would love to build a mid-engine rig, but I'm concerned with having enough room for a good pinion angle. If I set the engine/trans in back of the front seats, that doesn't leave much room for a driveshaft, if any. A 3 inch driveshaft doesn't make for very good angles or allow for rearend movement.
Posted By: 5thAve

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 07:58 AM

Quote:

somone here had a van wit a SB, if i remember right he used a dipy k frame, and the rear axel.




I guess you missed the other replies that mentioned that and the engine picture
Posted By: Robbins

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 10:04 AM

That's kind of cool, talk about sleeper......wow.
Posted By: RodStRace

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 03:53 PM

Quote:

What type of rear axle did the AWD Caravans have in them? That does sound like an interesting concept. I would love to build a mid-engine rig, but I'm concerned with having enough room for a good pinion angle. If I set the engine/trans in back of the front seats, that doesn't leave much room for a driveshaft, if any. A 3 inch driveshaft doesn't make for very good angles or allow for rearend movement.





Just thinking out loud here, but one way to deal with that is to run an IRS and have the center section solid to the unibody. It would not be a wheelie machine or a dragstrip terror, but you could make it handle.
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 04:00 PM

Quote:

A 3 inch driveshaft doesn't make for very good angles or allow for rearend movement.




It does if the rear end, transmission, and motor are mounted solid to a sub-frame, independent of the body.

Attached picture 6056606-MVC-370S.JPG
Posted By: MarkZ

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 04:02 PM

The sub-frame is for a 440 powered A100 wheelie stander. You could use this concept for a mid-engine mount in a Caravan.

Attached picture 6056611-MVC-368S.JPG
Posted By: 2Bad360sfromNC

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 05:21 PM

Sounds like a whole lot of work when the 4 cylinder turbo Caravans can do this with a lot less work...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhcOBrsk0nc

...but it would be kinda neat and sound better.
Posted By: Reggie

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 05:28 PM

That's a mean looking setup Mark!

Here are a couple of tweaked minivans...

12 second turbo Caravan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haPCQKOyMTo&feature=related

440 Caravan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4GUiu8nDPE
Posted By: Fury Fan

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 06:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

What type of rear axle did the AWD Caravans have in them? That does sound like an interesting concept. I would love to build a mid-engine rig, but I'm concerned with having enough room for a good pinion angle. If I set the engine/trans in back of the front seats, that doesn't leave much room for a driveshaft, if any. A 3 inch driveshaft doesn't make for very good angles or allow for rearend movement.





Just thinking out loud here, but one way to deal with that is to run an IRS and have the center section solid to the unibody. It would not be a wheelie machine or a dragstrip terror, but you could make it handle.




My suspicion would be that whatever rearend an AWD Caravan would have would be too weak. I'd stay with my recommendation of a Ford Explorer 8.8 - cheap, Locker can be prelim-identified on the door tag, and has disk brakes.

Midship mount does not leave much room for a driveshaft. I wondered if a motorhome 727 would help, but it's probably not much different than a 904.

My 'new idea' would be to install an 8.8 IRS from a Lincoln Mark 8. Solid mount it into a subframe as Rod St Race and Mark Mullins have mentioned.
Posted By: MoparMarq

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 06:39 PM

Quote:

Just thinking out loud here, but one way to deal with that is to run an IRS and have the center section solid to the unibody. It would not be a wheelie machine or a dragstrip terror, but you could make it handle.




3rd Gen Supras ('86.5-'92) are IRS rears mounted on subframes which have the whole shebang - pumpkin, suspension, a-arms, springs, struts, the works. Might not be too difficult to adapt to the existing structure. And the rear end is quite stout. LSDs can be found and gears available are 3.73, 3.91, or 4.30. Some guys have run 600HP at the crank through that diff.

Probably wouldn't be too hard to find, since most of those cars are wrecked in the front.
Posted By: dirt

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/27/10 08:10 PM

I put smallblock V8's in dodge daytona's and use the factory front suspension and it works fine. sometimes people use minivan springs because they are heavier so i would think the minivan would hold the motor up front easy. its similar to the daytona any way , the suspension crossmember bolts in a little different but similar.
Posted By: Jwilli500

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/28/10 01:43 AM

With that in mind, what about a rear axle from a Magnum Or a Viper(narrowed)? I think it'd be easier to use a solid axle and add the floor board hump if needed though.
Quote:

Quote:

What type of rear axle did the AWD Caravans have in them? That does sound like an interesting concept. I would love to build a mid-engine rig, but I'm concerned with having enough room for a good pinion angle. If I set the engine/trans in back of the front seats, that doesn't leave much room for a driveshaft, if any. A 3 inch driveshaft doesn't make for very good angles or allow for rearend movement.





Just thinking out loud here, but one way to deal with that is to run an IRS and have the center section solid to the unibody. It would not be a wheelie machine or a dragstrip terror, but you could make it handle.


Posted By: dirt

Re: Smallblock in a Caravan - 06/28/10 02:31 AM

i would run a solid axle and make a small hump if i had to for the drive shaft.
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